My point was when rand was on DM he was on a knife edge it was either destroy the world or fix himself. Do you forget perrin and the wolves when they saw the storm in TAR in ToM. Hopper said it was a choice between fighting TG or nothingness. Dark Rand was going to destroy the pattern before his change of heart are you saying he could of done nethier.

I think a couple of people have missed the point I was trying to make about VoG. VoG. HAD to happen for there to be ANY kind of future. Otherwise rand would have destroyed the world or the boardlanders would of destroyed him there would be NO last battle for Rand if he wouldn't of fixed himself or at least was as he was before dark Rand

Ha ha why not go the whole hog and have him die of old age, and king of the world. But he will die I mean come on what do you do after ruling the world? Golf?

Rands likable enough concidering he's walking around in constant pain all the time. I think only in TGS was he calous and unlikable. As for Tanis (no offence) but for me he was sooo boring. Raistlin was my fav in that series.

Toyed with the idea that Rand might live myself. Don't think so though I recon he will die giving himself to the land his essance to strenthen the pattern were the DO has made it weak. I think his death will heal the blight and SG will be normal like any other part of the world. The Aiel (what's left) will take up again the way of the leaf. The nations will keep the peace out of respect for the dragon. The seachan will keep there lands in randland but will scrap damane when they see the channellers unite in trying to heal the world after the chaos caused by TG. And so another age will begin.

That's assuming he could win the last battle when he was dark. In VoG he was on the verge of destroying everything, I think its safe to say he would have if he had not seen the light.

That's assuming he could win the last battle when he was dark. In VoG he was on the verge of destroying everything, I think its safe to say he would have if he had not seen the light, so to speak.

I think there will be a shift in seanchan atitude towards channeling with revelations about sul'dam. Otherwise what is the point of Bethamin and Seta's part in the story after it was found out the collar worked on them.

 

Hopefully there will be, but Tuon is already aware of this and has obviously igoned with the pathetic excuse of not having chosen to channel (because sparkers somehow choose to channel apparently).

Maybe there atitude change will some how be connected with the WT's own shift in atitude with the realization that they no longer rule the world. Maybe the AS will some how go back to a old style of truly being servants of all like in the AoL.

Wasn't Avi's vision while Rand was still in dark mode? If yes, then everything might already be different by now. Maybe if she went back into the rings, she would see a completely different future. Also, maybe the visions felt real to her because they were meant to, because of the nature of the ter'angreal. Maybe it is meant to make the channeller believe what she sees, even though it's only a possible future. Anyway, I don't know we will be told what happens to the Seachan after TG. Maybe what we will get will be something that will hint towards a possible positive resolution - like a Tuon POV where she realizes that collaring women is maybe not a good idea after all, or an instance where Aes Sedai save Seanchan lives and the Seanchan feel indebted, or a moment when they come to realize that maybe they don't really have a right - or need to - claim all these lands as theirs after all.

 

That's one of the theories brought up as to why the vision was so dark.

I don't understand what you mean. In that world rand had fullfilled his destiny. Are you suggesting that because he was dark rand at that moment (time of the vision) all foretellings/visions of the future at that point would be dark.

I don't see what Rands state of mind has anything to do with Avi's vision. In that vision he had apparently fought the last battle and won. I don't think that would of happened if Rand had remained as he was. Most likely he would of destroyed everything himself.

I think there will be a shift in seanchan atitude towards channeling with revelations about sul'dam. Otherwise what is the point of Bethamin and Seta's part in the story after it was found out the collar worked on them.

Sure divide and conquer and all that. Will it happen? No.

Agree about the red herring. But I think its pretty clear that if events stay the same the seanchan COULD and WOULD defeat the WT and BT. I don't think its realistic myself but BS has written it in as not only possible but inevitable all things remaining the same.

I find Aviendha's vision difficult to believe. The Seanchan lack Circles, which could easily be used by Randland channelers to devastating effect. In the event of an all-out war with Egwene as Amyrlin, I don't see the Oath against killing lasting very long, particularly with her hatred for the Seanchan. The idea that every channeler captured is one more damane is also flawed since it takes time to train them, so it wouldn't necessarily instantly increase their forces.

 

I think the vision was more metaphorical and allegorical, showing what would happen if the Aiel remain as they are now.

But that means, by your own reasoning that the seanchan WOULD of beat the WT and everyone else. The way I read the end of that chapter is Avi is certain that the events of her vison would come to pass. "This was not like events she had seen when passing into the rings during her first visit to rhuidean. Those had been possibilities. This days visions seemed more real. She felt almost certain that what she had experienced was not simply one of many possibilities. What she had seen WOULD occur. I agree with you that it seemed unlikely the seachan had that power but it seems that's how it will go down if things run there present course (and if rand wins of course). Its the sheer illogic of it that is one of my many gripes with that chapter. That being said, as I say above I don't think it will happen that way, added to her convo with Nakomi its seems clear that Avi will put the Aiel on a differant path.

According to avi's vison the Aiel will fight the seanchan to a stalemate until avi's grandaughter tricks the Andoran Queen in to joining the war. The result being the seanchan who had held to the dragon peace(whatever that was) now can attack the rest of randland scupping up damane out of every land along the way thus becoming more powerfull and eventully wiping out the Aiel, toppling the WT, forcing the BT to fight some sort of guerrilla war, conquoring everyone else and gaining world wide empire. I think we can safely assume this won't happen that way now we, Avi/the Aiel have been forwarned. But the biggest reason I think it won't happen is because its a load of bollocks!! What a dreadfull way to end the WoT series seeing all the lands we've grown to love and our fav charactors have fought for over the years fall under the seanchan sway. Another thing were are all the charactors in the chapter court of the sun,in ToM, were is elayne, Avi, all the wise ones, there's no mention of Logain, egwene,perrin,mat anyone only the Aiel clan chief Bruan. Its only ment to be 17 yesrs after the last battle after all. The chapter also implys rand will bend knee to the seanchan empress, which shouldn't happen. Its only my own opinion but that chapter almost spoilt the ToM book for me and cast a shadow on the whole series (which ill always love). I say in another thread that that chapter was either ment to throw us or was badly thought out. Maybe iv gone to far and will get abuse for this post but there it is and its only my opinion.

Logain can see rands weaves at the fight at Algarin's manner house. He says to rand "did you intend keeping these new weaves for your favorites, like Taim? Those gateways.......... I just copied your weave exactly. And earlier in the fight rand sees logains weaves pull the heat out of the fires. Lastly rand cut lanfears weave in cairhien.

We all know how Egwene feels about the seanchan I don't think she would leave even elaida to that. I think it was simply plot conveniance.