does anybody know the ID of the kinswoman, who nearly took Gawyn's foot off on his return to the WT to foil the bloodknives in ToM. I have always taken that as a hint of DF's among the kin.

i voted mat, apart from having the most lol moments his reasons for getting his hands dirty seem the most human. He's not looking (at first) to save the world, he's just looking to live a quite life tupping barmaids and gambling. It's his sense of duty to his friends, plus the DO trying to kill him that he keeps getting in to trouble.

Rodel Ituralde??? Bashere? All the great captains

Thank God or maybe i should of said the light

I dont think theres anything wrong with Perrin. Alright his plot lines dragged on for about 3 books ( 7 to 10 ) but you can say the same about Rand' ( PoD ) and Mat' ( Ebou Dari ). Though he's probably my least favorite of the Two Rivers lads, that only because i like Mat and Rand so much. I think he comes alive again in KoD and is at his best in ToM.

As for who has had the most help debate, I think they all got equal conveniant helping hands (Ta'vereness ) Rand with his LTT memories, Mat and his luck. I think to argue who the cards fell kinder for is pretty pointless.

I don't think so. The language spoken in Randland has its roots on the Old Tongue, which hardly resembles english.

 

Yeah thought so, but i was rereading SR the other day, and a comment by Faile about Loial being loyal by name and nature got me thinking(sorry).

Plus i have noted other english play on words in the series.

 

Toh/toes is another one (I just read that one). But RJ did claim to have 'translated' the story into English for us.

Thanks Terez. I guess that answers my question That does make the word play a bit baffling though

I don't think so. The language spoken in Randland has its roots on the Old Tongue, which hardly resembles english.

Yeah thought so, but i was rereading SR the other day, and a comment by Faile about Loial being loyal by name and nature got me thinking(sorry).

Plus i have noted other english play on words in the series.

this might have been asked before, or seem a silly question, but do randlanders speak english?

The world is on the brink the DO is growing stronger. I know people think he cannot break free completely without Rand to free him, but really would it matter if he was not completely free? The world surely cannot take much more of his influence. And if the DR was killed this turning, who and how would he be resealed, before the age of Legends comes again? Would someone else seal him? Would Rand be born again in the next age? And if so what if he is killed in that one too and the next and so on?

I don't think we know all the answers that has to do with who wins and how. The champion of the light has turned, so I guess someone else might be able to undo the Bore - unless, of course, the CoL was killed by the light's side and then summoned by the horn (or something like that?).

But what, in your opinion would happen if Rand was killed in chapter 1 of aMoL the state of the world being how it was left at the end of ToM. It is made pretty clear that no one else can seal the bore or IMO seems that way to me.

It might be that only Rand could seal it up permanently, but that without Rand others might be able to patch it up, temporarily. Long enough for the Dragon to be Reborn Again. Killing Rand is not enough - in a world with rebirth, even if the others cannot win without him they can delay until he comes back.

This is probably the only feasible explanation for this problem that, up to now has been put forward(that I've heard). But it still does seems to go against prophesy

But what, in your opinion would happen if Rand was killed in chapter 1 of aMoL the state of the world being how it was left at the end of ToM. It is made pretty clear that no one else can seal the bore or IMO seems that way to me.

I don't know, but the Bore needs to be undone somehow, given the cyclic nature of the Wheel (and there are other reasons too). Is there a quote that says noone else can undo the Bore in any turning but the Dragon reborn? (It's probably the Dragon in this turning, I believe.)

 

Non that I have seen.

 

Your idea about the horn is interesting, but, throws up more questions like, would Rand be able to be summoned by the horn if balefired?

I don't know.

Damm

The world is on the brink the DO is growing stronger. I know people think he cannot break free completely without Rand to free him, but really would it matter if he was not completely free? The world surely cannot take much more of his influence. And if the DR was killed this turning, who and how would he be resealed, before the age of Legends comes again? Would someone else seal him? Would Rand be born again in the next age? And if so what if he is killed in that one too and the next and so on?

I don't think we know all the answers that has to do with who wins and how. The champion of the light has turned, so I guess someone else might be able to undo the Bore - unless, of course, the CoL was killed by the light's side and then summoned by the horn (or something like that?).

But what, in your opinion would happen if Rand was killed in chapter 1 of aMoL the state of the world being how it was left at the end of ToM. It is made pretty clear that no one else can seal the bore or IMO seems that way to me.

Your idea about the horn is interesting, but, throws up more questions like, would Rand be able to be summoned by the horn if balefired?

Edit: forget the first part you already say it unknown.

Don't feel bad, damandred...this is something I've racked my brains about as well.

 

In fact, I had a topic on the matter: Stalemates

 

Actually, I see you posted on it as well!

 

I still have yet to get a satisfactory answer, though.

 

 

Thanks Imerickson, its good to know I'm not the only one losing sleep over this!

Like your observation that RJ used the term Champion of the Light instead of Dragon.

Just remembered one of Birgitte' tittles was Faith of the Light, don't know if that means anything.

*shrug*

 

Again take a look at the game of Sha'rah.

 

TPOD

Several pieces had varying moves, but only the Fisher's attributes altered according to where it stood; on a white square, weak in attack yet agile and far-ranging in escape; on black, strong in attack but slow and vulnerable. When masters played, the Fisher changed sides many times before the end. The green-and-red goal-row that surrounded the playing surface could be threatened by any piece, but only the Fisher could move onto it. Not that he was safe, even there; the Fisher was never safe. When the Fisher was yours, you tried to move him to a square of your color behind your opponent's end of the board. That was victory, the easiest way, but not the only one. When your opponent held the Fisher, you attempted to leave him no choice for the Fisher but to move onto your color. Anywhere at all along the goal-row would do; holding the Fisher could be more dangerous than not. Of course, there was a third path to victory in sha'rah, if you took it before letting yourself be trapped. The game always degenerated in a bloody melee, then, victory only coming with complete annihilation of your enemy. He had tried that, once, in desperation, but the attempt had failed, painfully.

I get the whole Fisher King analogy, I really do. I have read that passage many, many times and it still doesn't answer my questions.

The world is on the brink the DO is growing stronger. I know people think he cannot break free completely without Rand to free him, but really would it matter if he was not completely free? The world surely cannot take much more of his influence. And if the DR was killed this turning, who and how would he be resealed, before the age of Legends comes again? Would someone else seal him? Would Rand be born again in the next age? And if so what if he is killed in that one too and the next and so on?

I'm sorry but what seems taken for granted by some here, just doesn't seem right to me. Everything in the books point to a DO victory if Rand isn't there, not a marginal victory, but, complete and utter. If the DO cannot completely win with the Dragon then the light doesn't really need him in fact he is more a danger to the light as he is the only one who can destroy it. Even with ages ruled by forsaken and DF' the DO must be sealed before the AoL comes again, even with a dead Dragon which bring back the questions from above. *sigh*

I'm starting ramble now so will stop, hope someone will answer these questions in a way my feeble mind can understand. Thanks.

Don't feel bad, damandred...this is something I've racked my brains about as well.

 

In fact, I had a topic on the matter: Stalemates

 

Actually, I see you posted on it as well!

 

I still have yet to get a satisfactory answer, though.

Thanks Imerickson, its good to know I'm not the only one losing sleep over this!

Like your observation that RJ used the term Champion of the Light instead of Dragon.

Just remembered one of Birgitte' tittles was Faith of the Light, don't know if that means anything.

*shrug*

I get that and have read that quote before. What I mean though is that the DO IS breaking free, and if he does wouldn't that be the ultimate victory? And only Rand can stop him, which begs the question.....

Sorry if that's un clear the ideas so jumbled in my mind that its pretty hard to get down exactly what I mean.

It won't let me sleep.

 

My thought was he actually needs Rand to break him free all the way...important to remember there is nothing special about this turning of the wheel. There have been other last battles, I am sure at some point he has killed the Dragon Soul and it didn't result in a victory.

So he is just left sort of half free and free to cause chaos until the dragon is born again? I'm sorry Sutree I'm not trying to be stubborn but everything in the books especially ToM points towards him breaking free on his own if not stopped.

Why not just kill him then there would be no one to stop the DO breaking free.

 

Interview: Nov 1st, 1998

SciFi.com Chat (Verbatim)

Rothaar

When Rand takes Verin and the others through a Portal Stone in The Great Hunt, at the end of each life he hears "I have won again Lews Therin". I thought that if the Dark One won even once the Wheel would be broken and therefore the Dragon would not be reborn again. How could the Dark One have won before to be able to say "again"?

Robert Jordan

There are degrees of victory. The Dark One can achieve victory by breaking free, but can also achieve lesser victories. Such as by stopping the Dragon Reborn from doing other things he was born to do. It isn't as simple as him being born to fight The Dark One. It's never simple.

 

The DO wants the ultimate victory and killing Rand may not necessarily grant him that.

I get that and have read that quote before. What I mean though is that the DO IS breaking free, and if he does wouldn't that be the ultimate victory? And only Rand can stop him, which begs the question.....

Sorry if that's un clear the ideas so jumbled in my mind that its pretty hard to get down exactly what I mean.

It won't let me sleep.

Can't get it out of my head.

Randland now is falling to bits. The blight has spread south in patches, whole city blocks are being turned to dust and the indication is that things are just going to get worse, as the DO grows in strength.

Rand effectively tells the borderlanders that if they would of killed him, they would of doomed themselves, the DO would have broken free and destroyed everything.

They need Rand to stop the DO breaking free, which begs the question, why didn't the shadow kill him when they had the chance.

I've heard the Fisher King reason, that the shadow needs rand to free the DO/destroy the world, but everything in the books point to them not needing him just needing him dead.

Why not just kill him then there would be no one to stop the DO breaking free.

I seems to me that the DO is nearly free anyway and left unchecked the pattern will unravel soon.

Was that how it was in the AoL, the dead walking, city blocks turning to powder, people vomiting insects ect.

Because it doesn't seem posable that the world could keep turning like that while they fought a war for 10 yrs.

It appears to me that Rand thinks they must fight the DO now before its to late.

I like the idea of moridin getting turned to the light. I've always thought of him as champion of the dark, which is how he himself sees himself(going by his comments in EotW prologue)

Maybe turning the CotD is the only way the light can get a decisive victory over the DO(until next time), the same as many believe the reverse is true for a DO victory.

 

Going to take a fair amount as Brandon in an interview said Moridin is "nastier" than Fain by a long shot.

Oh right didn't know that, that's something we don't see in the books.

Admittedly he sounds very pleased with the thought of the universe ending forever, but, apart from that he seems almost pleasant.

I like the idea of moridin getting turned to the light. I've always thought of him as champion of the dark, which is how he himself sees himself(going by his comments in EotW prologue)

Maybe turning the CotD is the only way the light can get a decisive victory over the DO(until next time), the same as many believe the reverse is true for a DO victory.

"This is beyond me" Elayne muttered. "Where is Nynaeve? Why didn't she come up with you Mat? Nynaeve!" She shouted towards the stairs.

"No need to shriek like a cat" Nynaeve growled, appearing in the stairwell. She was looking back over her shoulder down the stairs, though. "You hold her tight, you hear me" she shrieked like a cat.

Just finished, the Red Wolf Conspiracy. First volume of Robert v.s Redick's the chathrand voyage series. Can't wait to read volume 2.

Great read!

When you get drunk at a party and start talking about WoT, and make out its the newest eath shattering theory in space/time and RJ is greater than Einstein and Newton put together.(Which he is)

When you use the Flame and the Void whenever you play Pool/Snooker or Darts and when you win(more often than not) call the challanger a untaught child.

When you tell your children to stop playing the fool.

When you develop a gambling problem because you can imagin hearing dice in your head.

When you slip the girl behind the bar an extra 10 pound because she has "pretty eyes"

When you can name the pro and anti Egwene factions on DM.

Another middle earth reference the fall of Aridhol = the fall of numenor. Aes Sedai reminds me of the Bene Gesserit of Dune

The TR's may have only had 4 village/towns but in between is god knows how many farms in a wide area of land. With the refugee's coming everyday, natural resorces, new identity (or old) Perrins lordship there going to want a capital (poss Emonds field). Plus the wealth they will get from pilgrimages. I don't think its unreasonable to suggest that the TR's will rival Andor in a couple of hundred years

The future gets dark for everyone except the seanchan. Everyone else is living under seanchan law, which we saw in Ebou Dar is not that bad except if your property,Aiel or can channel.