Sorry, double post.

Rand acted as he did for reasons unknown, and because of that we can't judge whether he was right to act as he did.

 

Agreed, but until we know those reasons, I can't help but think the world would have been better served by him laying out his plan and requesting aid from the greatest repository of knowledge in the world. Instead he purposely provoked her and placed the world's fate on a mining girl from Baerlon being able to find the all the answers for defeating the DO.

Absolutely, cooperation with the WT would have been preferable, so I hope he had good reasons for provoking her. Of course just because Rand expected Egwene to act as she did, does not mean she should have.

If Rand is planning on demanding that there be peace with the Seanchan, then perhaps he is intentionally setting up Egwene to be prooved wrong on the subject of the seals in front of the leaders of the world. Egwene would definitely oppose peace with the Seanchan, but if she's been shown to be wrong in one conflict with the Dragon Reborn, then perhaps the various leaders would be more inclined to support Rand.

He is the Dragon Reborn afterall. When the Dragon Reborn addresses an issue that is pretty much as close as you can get to his ultimate purpose in the pattern, it would be best to at least let him explain himself.

 

We have a circular situation here. It would be best to let him explain verse he should have explained in the first place instead of manipulating her. She asked to plan and he refused.

He didn't refuse. He postponed. She still has the oppurtunity for discussion. It seems to me that any oppurtunity to avoid conflict with the Dragon Reborn should be taken.

Rand acted as he did for reasons unknown, and because of that we can't judge whether he was right to act as he did.

The reason why it's a bad idea for Egwene to oppose Rand on this is because it's creating a conflict where there does not neccesarily need to be one. And conflict among the forces of the light is the last thing that we want at this point in the story. She should wait and see whether there is a need to oppose him, before deciding to do so.

 

Come now MA, you can not seriously believe Rand showed up and said we will discuss things at FoM in good faith. She said we must plan and he brushed her off. He purposely antaganized her into that course of action. We just don't know all the specifics of why yet.

He manipulated her for sure, but he clearly said: "Then meet with me at the place known as the Field of Merrrilor, just to the north. We will talk before I go to Shayol Ghul".

There's the oppurtunity for discussion, but instead she decides to oppose him before that. Of course Rand intends for her to act as she is, but that hardly means it's the right thing for her to do. Her initial reaction is understandable. However, in the month's time she has had to think things over, she should have come to the conclusion that it would be to hear Rand out.

He is the Dragon Reborn afterall. When the Dragon Reborn addresses an issue that is pretty much as close as you can get to his ultimate purpose in the pattern, it would be best to at least let him explain himself.

For the people that bash her for questionng Rand on the seals(how dare she, he is the CoL!) etc. I always wonder have they just completly fogotten there is still that little problem of Rand being connected to Moridin? As zen as Rand seems now all is not fixed and that dream at the end of ToM is a pretty heavy handed clue that this is still a pretty big issue. He is literally still linked with and mirroring the DOs champion! Not to mention we have seen what happens when he refuses to listen and his decisions go unquestioned in the past...

 

Last I checked no one is aware of Rand's connection to Moridin, apart from Rand and Moridin that is. So that's hardly the reason for which Egwene opposes Rand.

 

With that connection and zero plan beyond break the seals and see what happens, Egwene is taking the right course of action as Armylin regardless of what she knows. When Rand takes the time to explan his reasons(instead fo tweaking her nose) and IF Min has figured something out by then she will listen to reason.

And he said he would explain his reasons at the FoM. So, until then, which is when the merits of his plan will be exposed, why oppose him? Because that he doesn't know what to do after breaking the seals? That's not Egwene's reason, it never has been, from the moment he told her he was going to break the seals. She actually gave her reason in the meeting with the Windfinders and the Wise One's when she says "the Dragon Reborn threatens to free the Dark One". That's why she opposes him. And it's definitely a valid concern, except that other individuals have not jumped on board with her on opposing Rand, and she should know by now that Rand's condition has significantly improved.

The reason why it's a bad idea for Egwene to oppose Rand on this is because it's creating a conflict where there does not neccesarily need to be one. And conflict among the forces of the light is the last thing that we want at this point in the story. She should wait and see whether there is a need to oppose him, before deciding to do so.

Egwene's course of action might end up being the right one (depends on what happens at the FoM), but I'm judging it on the reasons for which she takes it. And those reasons are wrong.

....To me this is the key. I have not seen one person be able to say how the deal gives AS a leg up or some competitive advantage....

 

One advantage arises due to the fact that the WT Aes Sedai believe that through some divine right all *angreal are rightfully their property. So unless something changes, it certainly allows them access to more objects of the power (via taking them away from other channelers within the constraints of their laws).

No, Egwene said the WT would not try to take terangeal from the Wise Ones and Windfinders.

I don't think it's specifically about this instance of opposing him in breaking the seals, though. Hell, if I'd grown up in a culture that believed for the last 3000 years that the Dark One was only held at bay from touching the world by these seven seals, found out that all but three of them were already gone, and the guy who might be both savior and destroyer of the world and might also be completely insane was all like, "Yeah, so, I'm gonna break the last three. Just wanted you to know," I'd be all like, "Umm, no. Please don't do that. At least stick around for a while and tell us why you think you should do something so obviously insane." And I would only be that polite about it if I were on a thorazine drip or something.

As a initial reaction, sure it's perfectly justified that Egwene would be opposed to it. That said she has had a month to think things over, and during that time she has recieved positive information about Rand, and some of the people she trusts most, Elayne and Nyneave, have not been totally opposed to Rand's plan. That along with her complete lack of knowledge on the subject and the simple fact that it is the savior of the world who told her this, should be enough for her to at least hear Rand out. Not blindly support him, which would be just as foolish as blindly opposing him, but just waiting to hear why he wants to do this and if it seems like a plausible course of action. Rand told her he would talk to her about it at the FoM. Why not wait until then? Why choose to oppose so quickly when there is so much uncertainty on the matter? Where was the need to do so?

For the people that bash her for questionng Rand on the seals(how dare she, he is the CoL!) etc. I always wonder have they just completly fogotten there is still that little problem of Rand being connected to Moridin? As zen as Rand seems now all is not fixed and that dream at the end of ToM is a pretty heavy handed clue that this is still a pretty big issue. He is literally still linked with and mirroring the DOs champion! Not to mention we have seen what happens when he refuses to listen and his decisions go unquestioned in the past...

Last I checked no one is aware of Rand's connection to Moridin, apart from Rand and Moridin that is. So that's hardly the reason for which Egwene opposes Rand.

Questionning Rand is fine and is definitely the right course of action. Opposing before hearing him out on the matter of the seals on the other hand, isn't very smart. Darlin is the one who is being most reasonable in my opinion.

Is Rand's new sword mentioned anywhere else? Is there any discussion on it here?

It's Hawkwing's sword, Justice. Here's a thread.

So Lanfear is the most powerful known female channeler, but is it known that her power level is the highest that is possible?

Yes, it's highest level of power possible for a woman. Or at least it is believed to be, even in the AoL, and they would know considering the amount of channellers there were at that time. When facing Alivia, Lanfear reflects that she (Alivia) must have and angreal as it is impossible for a woman to be stronger than Lanfear was before dying.

Towers of Midnight Chapter 28; the dreadlords mentioned in the middle section, where did they come from?

The dreadlords that Perrin's group faced, from where did those come?

Graendal for sure sent the later ones; who sent the former ones?

They're probably some of Taim's men.

Quitely walks backward through the door to this thread......[Now this is why I have always loved Aviendha]

A very wise choice.

In CoT chapter 17, it is stated of Sharina's potential, "some thought she might become as strong as it was possible to be". Is there an established limit to a woman's strength in the OP?

Lanfear is the limit.

It should be noted that we don't know if Sharina actually has that potential. The Aes Sedai have not had channellers that powerful in a very long time.

I have a theory as to all the Egwene hate.

It is because she is written to life like. She is the girl we all went to high school with who was into everything. She was into student government, probably a cheerleader, decorated at all the dances, she may not have been a 10 but at least an 8, got good grades and all the teachers and staff loved her. Unless you were that girl or in her click you probably couldn't stand her. I think most of the Egwene haters are people who were not in the "in" crowd in high school.

She then left her small town (Two Rivers) went off to college in the big city (Tar Varlon). She continued to succeed due to her smarts and hard work but the because she is being fast tracked people think she is a kiss ass and being given everything they nit pick everything about her and exaggerate her flaws. Any thing she says they believe is arrogant and conceded.

 

So basicaly the Egwene hate all boils down to Jealousy.

 

 

Probably the biggest reason I dislike Egwene is posts like this one. If you don't just luuuuvvvv Egwene, you are jealous/sexist/too young or old or tall or fat to understand her.

 

Utter garbage.

Come on now, we all know you're jealous of a fictional character, from a fictional world.

Have we met any MCs who started channeling post-cleansing? IE, an MC who has, and will channel, with out the affect of the taint at all?

Apart from Emerin, I don't think so, but there are probably plenty of them at the BT by now.

I'll add a few.

This is when Rand and Mat leave their weapons to go into Rhuidean:

Mat began with his belt knife and kept right on, pulling knives from his sleeves and under his coat, even one from down the back of his neck, fashioning a pile that seemed to impress even the Aiel women. He made as if to stop, looked at the women, then took two more from each boot top. "I forgot them," he said with a grin and a shrug. The Wise Ones' unblinking looks wiped his smile away.

This is after they return:

"You fool man! No man can go twice to Rhuidean. Even you would not come back alive! Oh, starve if you want to!" She {Melaine} threw half a round loaf of bread at his head. Mat caught it out of the air and calmly began eating.

And this is between Rand and Aviendha when they're all leaving Rhuidean:

"Elayne is a wetlander, your own kind."[...]"Exactly the woman for you. Is she not beautiful? Her back is straight, her limbs are supple and strong, her lips like plump loveapples. Her hair is spun gold, her eyes blue sapphires. Her skin is smoother than the finest silk, her bosom fine and well rounded. Her hips are-"

 

He cut her off frantically, his cheeks heating. "I know she's pretty. What are you doing?"

 

"I am describing her." Aviendha frowned up at him. "Have you seen her in her bath? There is no need for me to describe her if you have seen-"

 

"I have not seen!" He wished he did not sound strangled. Rhuarc and the others were listening, faces too blank for anything but amusement. Mat rolled his eyes with an open, roguish grin.

 

The woman only shrugged and rearranged her shawl. "She should have arranged it. But I have seen her, and I will act as her near sister." The emphasis seemed to say his "near sister" might have done the same; Aiel customs were strange, but this was mad! "Her hips-"

 

"Stop that!"

What was Alviarin doing on Tremalking in CoT?

Probably just checking to see if the mass suicide was real. Maybe Mesaana told her about it.

The pattern spins out a Hero when that hero is needed. Jordan, in the interviews I've seen, was quick to make the point that WHICH Hero got spun out was subjective; the pattern picked the best Hero from the "list" it had to choose from. Sooo... perhaps in other rotations of the wheel, they didn't have the Dragon, but the Monkey King... or the Dryad.. or the arch Angel... it goes on.

 

My point is, I think "dragon" is a description seers used to describe the soul of LTT, and as such, its specific to THIS turning on the wheel, but there is always a soul that seals the Dark One temperarily, destined to be reborn to finish the job 3,000 years later. Whether that is a woman or a man depends on which soul got spun out in the AoL to start the thing off.

 

Now!! That certainly doesn't explain Ishy's insistance that Rand and he have battle for eons, over and over. It only explains what Jordan has said in the interviews noted above as well as others on the same topic.

The Dark One, speaking to Demandred in the prologue of LoC, said Rand was "MY ANCIENT ENEMY, THE ONE CALLED DRAGON". I'm not sure how that fits in to everything, but if the DO himself considers the Dragon his "ancient enemy", well then I'd say the Dragon (or at least his soul) is pretty special, even amongst the heroes. Incidentally, out of all the heroes mentioned do we know of any that can channel apart from the Dragon?

Recently been rereading FoH again and read about the Raven Tattoo Carlynia sedai is seen with in Min's viewing. Carlynia died during the Seanchan attack in TGS. The Tattoo is the sign of the Imperial seekers,... so what's this all about? The viewing hasn't been fulfilled between FoH and TGS, has it? Quick lookup on the wiki told me that Brandon had already RAFO't the question. Is there a place, thread, etc. where I can find speculation or additional info about this subject? I kinda liked the scenes with Almurat the seeker in them, so would love seeing him again in aMoL if possible.

Or was it really a misprint, cause one might start to wonder about a possible link between the logic of the White Ajah and seekers.

 

-

She dies in ToM when Mesaana and the BA attack in TAR. The raven can be a symbol of the shadow.

Perrin's Ashamen learned linking in Towers of Midnight. How come no one in Perrin's camp thought of it earlier (or had not mentioned it if they did)?

 

Plot device. Perrin had to be kept from contacting the others. Yes, rather a plothole...

Not really. Why would they have needed to link to contact others? It's not like the Wise One's or Aes Sedai could have learned how to travel from the Ashaman anyway.

Perrin's Ashamen learned linking in Towers of Midnight. How come no one in Perrin's camp thought of it earlier (or had not mentioned it if they did)?

Probably because travelling was not really an issue until the Ashaman exhausted themselves to defeat the Shaido.

I'm not sure if it was here or some place else, but I seem to recall people saying there are seven Ages in the WoT universe.

Had RJ stated that there are seven Ages, or where does this come from?

RJ said it, although it's possible that it was stated in the books as well.

Short question: Can someone tell me what's the total count of days past from day one in 2R all the way up to FoM?

829

well balthamel IS one of the weakest forsaken, he didn't even get a third name afaik. even moghedien had a third name.

Moghedien did not have a third name. Neither did Lanfear, Mesaana, Rahvin, or Balthamel. The rest all earned the third name. So even for the Forsaken it wasn't an easy thing to achieve, and it doesn't have anything to do with strength, as Lanfear, who is as strong as a woman can be, never earned it.

Yeah, my mistake. I meant Towers of Midnight obviously.

Is there another example throughout the series? O_o

 

I don't think so, no. But We haven't really seen the True Power used much in the first place.

 

Then I dispute this claim!

I think it was because he was "trapped" already.

Well, I'm afraid RJ's the one who said it was TP travelling, not me, so I don't think there's much disputing of the claim that can be done.

Is there another example throughout the series? O_o

I don't think so, no. But We haven't really seen the True Power used much in the first place.