Yeah I don't think it would happen for a long time. And if it does I don't think it would be a full merge, more of an agreement to strengthen ties between them.

It's pretty unlikely the Ashaman would consider moving after everything they've done to reclaim the Black Tower from Taim. If Elayne is smart she'll try to get benefits out of having the Ashaman in Andor rather than antagonizing them or trying to gain control over them, not that she could really. For exemple Caemlyn could use some rebuilding I believe and having bunch of channellers would really help out in that regard. So offer them official sovereignty over the lands the Black Tower is on and forge strong ties with them.

In this way Andor will have strong ties with both the Black and White towers, and avoid a pointless and unwinnable confrontation with the Ashaman. The land the Black Tower is on isn't worth anything anyway.

Imperivm - Las Grandes Batallas de Roma... Some Spanish game, basically the same as Cossacks 2. It's actually pretty fun, although pretty simplistic.

RJ pictured Egwene as a young Audrey Hepburn. The other celebrities he picked for the other female characters don't hold a candle to her.

She certainly has the eyes he described.

Pre last battle, probably Illian. Post last battle, I'd definitely go live in the Black Tower, whether I could channel or not.

That wouldn't work either. She can't afford to let them all come there with no clue what was to happen, then have Rand shutter their opposition with his ta'veren nature, as he did in the Hall. Not on the off chance that Rand had an explanation that he simply refused to give her for unexplained reasons. 

No, she can tell them about them bout the seals, she just shouldn't be trying to convince them that it is not the way to go, because she herself has no proof that it isn't. Until she can determine the validity of Rand's plan with the seals, she shouldn't be telling anyone what is the right or wrong thing to do. The truth would come out at the meeting anyway.

 

 

Exactly. So wouldn't it have been better to meet her for the first time in Merillor, and give her no time to form any sort of alliance against him?

 

 

Then he still could have called a meeting of everyone, and announced his plans then. Why give Egwene time to rally opposition? It makes zero sense.

You really think that's a good idea? On the eve of the Last Battle, possibly just hours before he goes to face the DO, he announces to everyone that he's going to break the seals, the one thing that holds the Dark One at bay. The risk that the meeting got out of hand was already pretty bad in the books, but dropping that kind of sudden information on them would be extremely dangerous. At least by informing everyone of what he plans to do a month beforehand, he gives them time to process that information, calm down, and it gives them an opportunity to come up with a way to convince them that he's wrong about the seals. This is why I don't hold Egwene's immediate reaction, when Rand first announced his intentions to her in the WT, against her. It would be anyone's instinctive reaction to oppose that, except perhaps a few to whom it is intuitively obvious, like Perrin.

 

 

Think for a moment what you're asking her to do. She's supposed to divine that there's some secret explanation that Rand refused to give her. Why? She has no logical reason for something like that. And based on this logic-less speculation, she should collect multiple armies that may suddenly have to go to war against each other?

Why would it be so hard for her to admit the possibility that he may not have told her everything? Egwene herself complains in aMoL that Rand essentially left her completely in the dark, that he revealed nothing to her. The idea that the seals might need to be broken is hardly insane. And with all the strangeness surrounding Rand in ToM, something she heard about from various people, and witnessed herself, she should be all the more cautious. The armies need to be collected one way or another. There being tension between them is unfortunately the reality. They're going to have to fight together at the Last Battle anyway, so if they can't even stand to be in the same place without fighting each other, the Light is screwed anyway.

 

 

Why ever not? They were all loyal to him. All he had to do was send emissaries to call them to Merrilor, and send one to the Tower as well, requesting their presence. He directly ruled, or had strong alliances with, every person Egwene called to Merillor save Roderan. And if the idea of the entire ruse was to bring Demandred out, there's certainly nothing in his thoughts to indicate this. 

I'm no expert on military matters, but I'm guessing the logistics of having a nation's entire army ready to move out is rather... complicated. Probably not something that can be done at moment's notice. So if he tells them at the last second they won't have the time, but if he tells them several weeks in advance, he'll need to give them a damn good reason to be doing this considering the threat of the Seanchan. Remember how reluctant Darlin was to bring even a small amount of his army? And the reason he, or rather Egwene, gives them, is the seals. 

 

 

Except the Aes Sedai would have jumped with joy at being asked to help with such a treaty. He knows for a fact that they have wanted something like this for a long time. If he had doubts, there are tons of sisters in his retinue who'd have told him that the Tower has no issues at all with the Westlands being unified. Again, if he'd just met them all at Merillor and announced his plan, the Tower would have had no issues with his peace treaty. As ended up happening anyway.

Rand still doesn't trust the Aes Sedai and the WT, considering how things went at Merrilor. I don't think he would want them involved in his treaty. That said I've no doubt that the WT would have agreed to the peace part of the treaty, it's the rest of the nations that wouldn't. Psychologically, the WT accepting to sign a treaty that included the peace, was a massive win for Rand. The Amyrlin being convinced before their very eyes, even if it was really Moiraine who did the convincing, is what pressured the various rulers into to signing the treaty.

That said, I see where you're coming from. When I look at Rand's plan I can't help but think that surely there must have been a way to do it better, that he didn't need carry out such convoluted manipulation, and step on so many toes. But every alternative I think, has some flaw that would make it harder, or more dangerous, or something. I think Rand ultimately went with what was, if not the nicest, most diplomatic, or most straightforward of plans, the one that was most likely to succeed, keeping in mind that it was through coercion that he tried to get everyone to sign, and that even that would have failed had Moiraine not returned to knock some sense into everyone's skulls, including his.

Civilization

 

Why is this game so hard? It's from like 900 years ago

Geez

The first one? Never played it. I've played the 3rd, 4th, and 5th. In the third I recall that it actually started getting challenging around the 4th level. I believe there are like 9 levels. The fifth one on the other hand I find relatively easy, though I haven't played on the hardest difficulties.

Yes, but she can hardly wait for a month on the off chance that there may be an explanation before she collects opposition in case there isn't one. She did the only thing she could: collect those likely to oppose Rand, then give him a chance to explain himself. If what he said was satisfactory, no harm done, since those gathered would all get the reason from the horse's mouth. If he had no explanation, she had her supporters ready at hand to do whatever was needed. It would have been remarkably remiss of her not to account for both those eventualities.

 

 

Not quick at all, since Rand said he was going to break the Seals the day after their meeting in a month. She could hardly have marshaled her opposition in a day's time!

 

 

She may not have considered that, but none of her actions made a confrontation inevitable. She gathered opposition, including men like Darlin who were openly loyal to Rand. To the very end, she states she doesn't want it to devolve into conflict, but she's ready for it if it comes to that. That's hardly an unreasonable course of action, though her thoughts should have been written to match them, not be presented in a schizophrenic manner.

Oh, she should definitely collect everyone in case he needs to be opposed, but what she should not have done is announce to them that she is opposing him, and that they must do so as well, before the meeting. If at the meeting things didn't go well, and it was clear that he needed to be stopped, then that is when she should have formed the opposition. What she did is choose a side, and make others choose a side, before being certain whether or not there were even sides to choose in the first place. She'd already decided that he was wrong before the meeting. The conflict may not have been a violent, physical one, but they were clearly of diverging opinions, in spite of the fact that they didn't even know the reasons for the other's opinion in the first place. Basically she should have made absolutely 100% certain that Rand had to be stopped before announcing it the various rulers, who she would have of course gathered beforehand. It was a communication mistake more than anything.

 

 

Neither of those reasons compute. If Rand was simply dismissing Third Age Aes Sedai for the sake of being Third Age AS, he's no better than the Foresaken who got their asses handed to them. And Aes Sedai cannot lie, so however "convenient" it looks, they can't fake the research.

I guess he just didn't believe there was anyway they could possibly know anything about the nature of the bore, or at least more than those in the Age of Legends who should of had a much greater understanding of it. So, I suppose if there's any explanation it's arrogance to me, although frankly both Rand and Egwene came across as amazingly dense during the meeting anyway.

 

 

Then why not convince her right then, and then ask her to bring the other's together and convince them? That way, there's no "cracks in the forces of the Light". You can't deny that Rand's plan was pretty absurd. If he needed a month to come up with an argument that would convince Egwene, he should simply have gone to her then, instead of issuing ultimatums and designing a situation that looked like inevitable conflict.

Had he gone to her in a month's time, the forces of the Light would not have been gathered and ready to move. I think he probably thought it was necessary for all of them to witness the Amyrlin being convinced before their very eyes. They were always going to be two most important people at any meeting, and the Amyrlin has a huge amount of institutional influence over the rulers. If she is convinced then sure they must follow. Perhaps he believed the rulers would feel bullied if both he and Egwene were trying to convince them.

Also I think he didn't try to convince simply because, well, he couldn't. Ultimately he tried to coerce everyone into signing the treaty. Egwene still ended up calling his bluff, even in such a volatile situation as the meeting of Merrilor. Surely she would have done so as well, in the WT, surrounded by Aes Sedai, against Rand who stood alone.

And there's the treaty itself to be considered. Egwene only cared about the seals, the peace she was fine with, and Rand being commander in chief wasn't as big a deal even if she disagreed with it. But Rand needed to convince everyone of all three, particularly the peace part, and he might have had difficulty doing that if the rulers didn't see Egwene being convinced and signing.

What didn't make sense to me is that Rand wanted to be both commander in chief.... but also break the seals right away and go fight the DO. I mean it's pretty clear he can't do both at once. It's understandable that he wouldn't know that there was a precise moment at which the seals had to be broken according to prophecy, but how he could believe that he could both fight the DO and lead the armies at the same time, I have no idea. Thankfully Moiraine reasoned with him quickly on that point.

Egwene actually mentions her dream from ToM at the meeting with Moiraine, when Moiraine convinces her that the seals need to be broken. But she basically just says that it showed Rand destroying the seals.

 

But she did ask him for a discussion where they could argue this out and plan things. He flatly refused. It was at that point that she decided to gather opposition against him. 

 

Now, as to why Rand decided to refuse her entirely reasonable request for a meeting... only Brandon can answer. For myself, I think the entire one month ultimatum to Merillor was a result of the book split. Brandon needed a way to end ToM, and a way to keep up suspense for aMoL. This ludicrous one month time gap that was based on no logical motivation was the way to achieve it.

And that's where she was too hasty. She had a month worth of time to figure out if there was any truth to what he was saying about the seals (her conclusion about this is what varies between the two books), and she had the meeting at Merrilor, to attempt to resolve the situation without resorting to pressuring him by forming sides. As it is forming sides only added to the tension and created cracks in the forces of the Light. It's an understandable mistake, particularly when confronted with such a volatile situation, but i still think she was too quick to resort to these kinds of methods.

It seems to me that Rand refused her offer, precisely because he knew she would react as she did, allowing him to only need to convince her of his plan so that the rest would follow suit. Or basically what Faile said to Perrin.

 

Agree that it was inconsistent as hell. But we can figure out why it was that way. Had Brandon revealed that Egwene had been researching in the Tower library, and that her position had evolved, and she had begun to better understand her Dream, there would have been less suspense about what would happen in aMoL. 

 

I remember multiple threads where people complained that Egwene wasn't using the Tower library. I remember pointing out that her suddenly quoting obscure Brown scholars to Saerin was a hint of her actually doing research. But that's about all we got. Brandon simply hid everything else, giving the impression that Egwene spent the month before Merrilor writing a few letters and stopping one attempted coup by the Hall. Which is so massively inconsistent with her character that I just refused to believe it.

Right, but he still could have given hints of some kind. As it is you have Egwene in ToM showing complete opposition to the idea that breaking the seals might be necessary, for seemingly no good reason. And then you have Egwene in aMoL, who's not against it at all, although hardly convinced, yet, that it is necessary. He had the opportunity in Egwene's last scene at the Fields of Merrilor, at the end of ToM, to suggest that at some point in the book Egwene had discovered something. As it is it just seems like Egwene is trying to fool the readers or something.

 

 

I also find it baffling that she didn't discuss her Dream with Rand, or bring it up at Merillor at all. After the Seanchan actually attacked as her Dream suggested, her oracular powers certainly must have gotten greater respect from the AS. Its confusing that what pretty much amounted to the central reason she opposed Rand's plan was completely forgotten in aMoL.

Yeah it would have been nice to actually learn what the dream meant, to know if she misinterpreted it or something. It was just kind of left by the wayside.

 

But here is the thing MA, she didn't just try to stop him and again there is no other realistic reaction given the circumstances. She raised the forces as a buffer and continued studying the situation to discuss it at the FoM. She then comes around to saying the seals could possibly be broken but it needed to happen at the correct time. As for lacking information I also found it very odd that Rand would just offhandedly dismiss the research as "AS speculation".

 

The very ending of the chapter in which Rand and Egwene meet shows Egwene thinking that he must be stopped, not that he might need to be stopped. Over and over in ToM and in aMoL, it's portrayed as a confrontation between them, not a discussion.

Her immediate reaction is understandable. Anyone would be shocked by that. But for it to last until the end of the book is the problem. Not once does she consider that he may be right and that the seals need to be broken. She's far to self assured. Just because Rand did not bother giving her an explanation then and there, does not mean he doesn't have one.

If we account for her sudden change of heart in aMoL regarding whether or not the seals need to be broken, then the question has to be asked of why she's trying to make this meeting look like a confrontation, because that is definitely her doing. Why not account for the possibility that they can all come to an agreement, that they both have a portion of the truth? She never seems to consider that.

As for Rand dismissing the research I can think of two reasons: Rand is LTT, and LTT may not have a very high opinion of the Aes Sedai of this age. He may doubt the worth of Aes Sedai theories that have nothing to really back them up. And secondly it may seem very convenient from his pov that there happens to be obscure research done by some Aes Sedai that goes against precisely what he wishes to do. He's still shortsighted to dismiss it so easily though.

 

Look the reality is her multiple personality disorder post-TGS makes it impossible to really gauge the situation. Barid said it well here...

 

 

Also curious to hear why you think she had zero contact with Nyn or the WO's to hear about Rand's growing darkness? It had been developing for books.

 

It makes it harder, but not impossible. She still made the mistake of turning the meeting into a confrontation. Her opinion on the breaking of the seals however is indeed impossible to judge, because it's no longer possible just what her opinion is.

She was in contact with them earlier in the books. But at the very least she didn't contact them at any point after the Semirhage incident, and that's when Rand really went dark. The last time she talked to them was significantly prior to it as far as I can recall. She hadn't talked to Nyneave in forever considering their discussion in ToM. I believe she talked to Aviendha in CoT, but I don't remember her talking to the Wise Ones. She probably believes Rand is similar to how she left him in LoC. Worse actually considering his imprisonement, but still no reason to believe he was anything like he was post-Semirhage.

I highly doubt Egwene believed Rand killing his own men during the Damona campaign was anything but an accident, and hardly intentional. She wouldn't know about Natrin's Burrow either. Only Rand, Nyneave, Min, Cadsuane, Merise, and the Wise Ones. None of them were in contact with Egwene at that time, and Egwene doesn't think about his actions either. And only a few days had passed since Rand had left Arad Doman, not enough for Egwene to surmise that Rand is abandoning them to starvation, if she's even heard of him leaving, which is hardly certain.

She'd heard that he was arrogant, temperamental, mistrusting, somewhat irrational, possibly verging on insanity. All things to keep in mind and reasons to be skeptical of what he claims, to question his plans. But not reasons to disregard them completely as insanity. Not without further proof. Not considering who and what he is, and what he has already accomplished, particularly the Cleansing, which also sound crazy at first. Had he come forward and said he was going to break the seals with no plan whatsoever and just see what happens without even considering her objections, then her opposition would have been justified. But as it is, that's not what he did, and he sounded perfectly sane troughout the meeting something she thought was peculiar, and something she should have investigated before making any decisions about him and his ideas. She was rash in deciding that breaking the seals was unnecessary, something she had no proof of at that point. That she acted precisely as Rand expected her to is irrelevant. She made an extremely important decision, in spite of the fact that she was in the dark and severely lacking in information, and yet had time to at least attempt to gain greater understanding of the situation. And for a person in her position with all that relies on her, that's a pretty big mistake. There's no doubt that her intentions were good, she just didn't think it through very well.

Egwene in ToM and Egwene in aMoL are rather... different. In ToM she opposed the seals being broken at all. In aMoL, she's still not convinced that the risk should be taken, but if it's necessary there's a right time to do it. Her opposition to breaking the seals is definitely toned down in aMoL. In ToM her opposition to it was rather irrational. Sure it's not a pleasant scenario, and there are probably risks, but it should still be on the table no? According to her in ToM, it really shouldn't. Had that changed over the course of the book, her stance in aMoL would have been more understandable. But seeing as even at the end of the book, she remains adamant that they should not be broken, with nothing to suggest that it's simply their immediate breaking that she opposes, her sudden change of heart in aMoL really comes out of nowhere.

The Guardian in Far Madding has 3 purposes. To prevent channelling by men, by women, and to detect channelling. It actually has different ranges for the three of these. The greatest range is for simply detecting channelling, the second greatest to prevent men from channelling, and the smallest to prevent women from channelling. In truth, it only prevents channellers from connecting to the True Source. In 99.9% of cases this will prevent channelling, but there is a way to get around it. The male channeller detected by the Guardian in WH chapter 24, was within the detection range but outside the prevention range.

You belong to the Gray Ajah!

The Gray Ajah seeks to end conflicts by mediation and reaching consensus. They have a strong sense of justice and are knowledgeable about laws and rules. Being skilled negotiators, they understand the value of compromise, and are experts at reaching agreements. It is said that members of this Ajah believe that any problem can be solved by talking long enough about it. 

This is your result in its entirety:

Gray Ajah: 6

Blue Ajah: 5

Yellow Ajah: 4

Brown Ajah: 4

Green Ajah: 3

White Ajah: 2

Red Ajah: 1

This seems to make sense... more or less. I'd have blue and grey as first so that fits. Then green and yellow, then brown, then red and white. So if green and brown were switched, it would be pretty much correct. Although I picked blue as the one I relate to the most.

But he's Ta'veren. The pattern obviously isn't going to let that happen. Rand has used the logic of "I doubt the Pattern would let me die here" in the past

The pattern let him get emprisoned by Elaida, let Fain cut him with the dagger, let Semirhage blow off his hand, and let Semirhage put a collar on him. Had Rand not reached out for the Dark One's power, Min would be dead, and who knows what would have happened to Rand. And with the Dark One unraveling the pattern, the access key getting stolen is far from far fetched.

And in any case LTT believed that brute force was not the way to defeat the Dark One. Having regained all his memories as LTT, Rand would certainly believe that as well.

And what in the name of hell does that mean? Dangerous how? Hell the Black Tower are dangerous, you don't see him fearing to use them.

The Black Tower is dangerous, but it doesn't have the power to destroy the world. That anywhere near that power. Recall that Rand is LTT reborn, and LTT argued from the very beginning that the CK are something that were far too powerful and too frightening ever to use.

Basically because he believes it's far too dangerous, far too risky.

 

 

Wait, how did the war go. Did they create a whole in the Dark One's prison THEN start fighting. Or was the Bore created near the end of the war. If it's the former, then how come the DO didn't reach through and stomp everything, and if it's the latter, then how did the DO communicate to them?

 

The bore was created by Lanfear, before she turned to the shadow of course and a male Aes Sedai named Beidomon, who would later kill himself.

 

Following that there was a period of around 100 years called the collapsed. During this period generally got darker, more dangerous, and generally amoral. Many of the Forsaken, join the Dark One during this period either secretly like Graendal, or openly like Ishamael.

 

Then the war started, Demandred joins the shadow in the third year of the war, Sammael in the 4th. Ironically it was during the first 3 years that the Shadow gained a lot of territory, and in the next 3, if I recall correctly, that the Light under LTT regained most of the lost territory. In other words exactly when Demandred and Sammael joined the shadow. Then things got bad.

 

For chronology I find the seven spokes to be a pretty good source.

 

Wait, so Demandred and Sammael were responsible for Team Shadow losing all their headway?

 

Nah, I was just picking on them. More like LTT managed to turn the tables. Eventually the shadow turned things around. But that's why I'm not convinced that Demandred was a better at war than LTT. I'd say they're about as even as can be.

then how did the DO talk with people?

What do you mean? Once the bore was created, the Dark One could presumably converse with someone who came near him. Obviously the DO isn't going to tell that person Dude I'm the Dark One, and the Great Lord of the Dark, and the Father of Lies, and Sightblinder, and the Lord of the Grave, and the Shepherd of the Night, and Heartsbane, and Hearfang, and Grassburner, and Leafblighter, and Lighteater, and.... well you get the picture."

Instead he probably told them "You want to be rich, handsome, and famous? Follow me!!!"

Wait, how did the war go. Did they create a whole in the Dark One's prison THEN start fighting. Or was the Bore created near the end of the war. If it's the former, then how come the DO didn't reach through and stomp everything, and if it's the latter, then how did the DO communicate to them?

The bore was created by Lanfear, before she turned to the shadow of course and a male Aes Sedai named Beidomon, who would later kill himself.

Following that there was a period of around 100 years called the collapsed. During this period generally got darker, more dangerous, and generally amoral. Many of the Forsaken, join the Dark One during this period either secretly like Graendal, or openly like Ishamael.

Then the war started, Demandred joins the shadow in the third year of the war, Sammael in the 4th. Ironically it was during the first 3 years that the Shadow gained a lot of territory, and in the next 3, if I recall correctly, that the Light under LTT regained most of the lost territory. In other words exactly when Demandred and Sammael joined the shadow. Then things got bad.

For chronology I find the seven spokes to be a pretty good source.

I'm not sure LTT was ever ta'veren. At the least, he was not anywhere close to the "strength" Rand is, and probably not even Artur Hawking. The Forsaken are completely unfamiliar with the concept of ta'veren in the Age of Legends. They note that sometimes LTT was considered lucky, but it's obvious they've never seen the type of Pattern warping they've encountered in the Third Age, and that perhaps explains some of their foolishness early on in trying to fight Rand one-to-one.

I'd be shocked if the guy who's considered the greatest of his age, was not very powerfully taveren. And yeah, one of them, can't remember who, said that LTT made luck like a mint made coin or something. That's rather telling. 

I'm pretty sure the Forsaken are perfectly aware of the concept of taveren. Ishamael knew how to locate them because they were taveren, and probably Lanfear too. The way they talk about it in the 3rd chapter of KoD makes it pretty clear that it's familiar to them.

I think they thought they could take Rand one on one simply because he was completely uneducated at that point. That, and they're arrogant, and probably overestimate their own abilites while underestimating others.

Aginor claimed to have matched LTT stroke for stroke in the Hall of Servants in what was presumably a duel. Of course Aginor may be exagerating or only telling part of the truth.

I recall Lanfear claiming that Sammael never defeated LTT once during the War of Power. And considering how good Sammael was, that's pretty impressive. 

I don't know that either Demandred or LTT was better. It's probably so close that there is no practical difference. Of course Demandred would claim he was better, and that's to be expected. In any case, taveren would make things lean towards LTT I would say, and while Demandred was right that the Light would lose with LTT at the head of the armies, it really has nothing to do with LTT being in charge. Considering his head to head record with Sammael, LTT was probably the only reason the war lasted as long as it did. It was really sheer number the shadow could bring forward that tilted the scales.

I also wonder what kind of person LTT. While a lot of the Forsaken clearly dislike him, Bel'al also says that LTT always his heart ahead of power. And LTT, in Rand's head, claims he never gave Demandred any less than his due. Personally I think LTT was just that dude who's annoying super talented at everything, and whether or not he was boastful or arrogant, he probably acted to competitive with certain people, particularly Demandred, which ended up driving a wedge between them.

Before VoG? I'd bet he probably has the makings of a pretty damn good military strategists considering he's LTT reborn. But he's severely lacking in knowledge and experience.

Post VoG? Basically as good as LTT was. Which means pretty much on the same level as Demandred, who's number 1 for the shadow. Better than the Great Captains I would imagine.

While I believe Rand that anyone near Graendal would have suffered the same kind of compulsion as the boy Nyneave healed, partly because Rand isn't looking for any justification at this point and is really just telling it as it is, or at least as he perceives it, what makes it worse is that it's not at all certain that Rand particularly cares that those people can't be saved. It's entirely possible, and even probable that he would acted the same way even if didn't believe everyone was under compulsion.

Egwene told Gawyn the last one was caught, shortly after Mesaana's defeat.