Lews Traveled. Elan shimmered and coalesced.

Was this because he was already (loosely) bound to the outer patching of the Bore?

He traveled using the True Power.

I think the defensive gear he uses is killing the other guy first

Seems to be pretty damn effective.

How far into the book did each of the forsaken get released?

Some are pretty obvious but others could be pretty far into the story. Demandred for example. Or Moghedin.

Demandred and Moghedien are probably both out in tDR, but at the very latest in tSR. Three seals are broken at the end of tGH, which probably let out any Forsaken still trapped at that point.

I'm sure this has been asked, but when Rand balefired Semirhage, why didn't her recent actions become undone? I'm sure Rand balefired her rather strongly.

There wasn't really anything to undo, and he can't have taken that much time off. Maybe 10 minutes maximum.

Would dreamspike also prevent Deathgates?

Yes, they're still gateways.

Greandal did that? When did this get revealed?

 

I never understood why, when the Dark One was upset about losing the chosen there was zero interest in bringing Asmodean back.

It was hinted at my Moridin in aMoL, then nearly said straight out by Shaidar Haran, and finally it was stated in the glossary.

I can think of two reasons why he wasn't brought back. He might have been balefired, and he betrayed the Shadow. He threw his lot in with Rand, because he knew the other Forsaken would think he had betrayed them.

I don't understand why but I tend to agree with you. Why the Dark One can't bring back someone killed by Mashadar?

They wouldn't be the same. They would be completely messed up because of Mashadar. Besides considering Moridin helped Rand kill Sammael, the Shadow might have wanted him dead anyway.

Yes, they should balefire her broken body.

They should, except that they don't know the Dark One can bring people who haven't been balefired back to life. They have no reason to balefire her, it's a forbidden weave. Only Rand and Min, and perhaps others with them if they've been told, would know that she needs to be balefired. And it isn't clear how Rand feels about using balefire. It wouldn't take much balefire to ensure Mesaana stays dead, but I wonder if he would be willing to use even that.

So can someone draw up a little list of Who's Who for the Forsaken. Who got bitch slapped out of the pattern with Balefire? And who got transmigrated and who they are now? Such as.....

 

Sammie- Balefired when Rand and Moridin crossed the streams Where the Shadow Waits.

Be'lal- Killed by the eye of the world by.. You see its been to long was it green man or Rand?

etc.

etc.

etc.

-Aginor drew too much power at the Eye and killed himself. Came back as Osangar, stayed close to Rand as Dashiva, tried and failed to kill him in PoD, and finally was killed by Elza during the Cleansing in WH. Probably gone for good.

-Balthamel was killed by the Green Man at the Eye. Came back as Arangar, stayed close to Egwene as Halima, forced to flee by Narishma, and finally balefired by Rand at Natrim's Burrow. Gone for good.

-Bel'al set himself up as High Lord Samon in Tear, and was balefired by Moiraine after a swordfight with Rand from whom he wanted to steal Callandor. Gone for good.

-Ishamael tried to turn Rand to the dark in the first three books, he fought him three times at the end of each book finally being killed at the end of tDR. Came back as Moridin, and was named Naeblis by the Dark One. Alive

-Moghedien sets herself up in Tarabon as a servant, and eventually comes into conflict with Nyneave and Elayne. Defeated a first time by Nyneave, but escapes, defeated a second time in TAR by Nyneave with Birgitte's help. Captured in Salidar having followed Nyneave and Elayne there. Gives up many weaves to Elayne, Nyneave, and later Egwene. Freed by Arangar, tortured by Shaidar Haran, and is now mindtrapped by Moridin. Tried and failed to balefire Nyneave in aCoS. Alive

-Asmodean worked with Lanfear who planned for him to teach Rand, he finally gave up on that and tried to take the Choedan Kal but failed and was captured by Rand and became his teacher. Went to Caemlyn with Rand where he was killed by Rahvin, before being brought back thanks to balefire, and was finally killed by Greadal. Almost certainly gone for good.

-Lanfear tried to get Rand to join her from book 2 to book 5, forced Asmodean to become Rand's teacher, went into a rage after hearing that Rand slept with Aviendha, and was tackled through the terangreal gateway into the finn's world. Seemed to die there, though details are unclear, came back as Cyndane who is slighly weaker than Lanfear, and is now mindtrapped by Moridin. Alive

-Rahvin set himself up in Andor as Lord Gaebril, and effectively took control of Andor by using compulsion on Morgase. Declared himself King after Morgase escaped, attacked by Rand, fought him in TAR, and finally balefired by Rand with Nyneave's help. Gone for good.

-Sammael sets himself up in Illian as Lord Brend. Forces Moiraine, Lan, Perrin, Faile, and Loial to flee. Attacks Rand during the Battle of Cairhien, later causes the dispersion of the Shaido, tries to negotiate a truce with Rand, stops Rand's army in eastern Illian, attacked by Rand in the city of Illian, retreats to Shaidar Logoth where he nearly kills Rand, who is saved by Moridin. Finally killed by mashadar right before Rand was going to balefire him. Gone for good.

-Semirhage sets herself up as Tuon's truthspeaker, Anath. She murders the Empress along with the entire royal family except for Tuon. Orders Suroth to have Tuon killed. Tries to capture Rand but is captured herself. Questioned by Cadsuane's Aes Sedai in Arad Doman, and finally broken by Cadsuane in a most bizarre manner. Freed by Shaidar Haran, collars Rand with the domination band, tortures him and forces him to torture Min, and then tries to force him to kill her. Finally balefired by Rand when he breaks free of the domination band thanks to the True Power from the Dark One. Gone for good.

-Graendal set herself up as Lady Basene in Arad Doman. She works with Sammael for a while until he falls to Rand, she is ordered by Moridin to bring pain to Rand, when Rand discovers her location in Arad Doman thanks to Nyneave, she has Arangar and Delana use compulsion on Ramshalan who was sent by Rand as part of his scheme to make sure she is dead, she very nearly escapes the balefiring but makes sure that Arangar and Delana do not making Rand think she is dead. She is then ordered by Moridin to kill Perrin which she tries and fails to do, and is indirectly partially responsible in Mesaana's defeat. Captured by Shaidar Haran before she can escape through a portal stone into an alternate world. Alive

-Mesaana set herself up in the White Tower as Danelle, an obscure Aes Sedai of the brown Ajah. She is partially responsible for Siuan's downfall, and has Alviarin manipulate Elaida, she causes rifts to form between the Ajahs and tries to capture Rand but ultimately fails thanks to Perrin's rescue party and the Ashaman. Fails to show up at the Cleansing and is punished for it by Shaidar Haran. Initiates a battle with Egwene and her allies in TAR and finally has her mind broken in a contest of willpower with Egwene. Probably gone for good, but could presumably be brought back by the Dark One if she is killed.

-Demandred: Unknown (numerous theories, see other threads). Alive

Why is the Great Hunt for the Horn called in Illian? What is the connection (if any)?

I don't think there is any particular connection. It's just tradition.

what city/province is king roderan in?

City of Lugard in Murandy.

In Towers of Midnight, Morgase tells Tellanvor about Compulsion. Chapter 21. Where did she get the information?

If from a person, who?

 

Graendal sent the dreadlords & trollocs in the south; who sent the dreadlords in the Blight?

Were both groups from the same location or from different locations?

She learned it from Perrin near the beginning of the book I think. While he's meeting with all the other leaders in his army.

So I've got a question (bet you didn't see that one coming!): Where is everyone in the timeline compared to Rand? Obviously Perrin, Egwene, Elayne, Nyneave are all with him at the FoM, but what about Mat, Thom, Moiraine, and Talmanes, Olver, and Lan, and Androl and the BT?

Well, Moiraine seems to want to travel the world with Thom after the Last Battle is done.

Just like Siuan wanted to travel the world rather than being stuck in the Tower being Amyrlin.

Siuan never had a choice, though if she had acted like Cadsuane and escaped the tower before they made her Amyrlin then perhaps she would have been able to travel the world.

Who's going to force Moiraine to become Queen of Cairhien? And why would it work this time when it was already attempted in NS?

I'd wear a 'Moiraine for Queen' badge, if it weren't for the fact that she seems to dread the possibility more than the very end of the world (well, that's not fair. She never stopped having nightmares about Rand in NStN, she just started having new ones as well).

That was waaaaay back in New Spring. And the main reason she was scared is because she didn't want to be the first Aes Sedai queen in 1000 years. She feared mobs. Since they've already more or less accepted Elayne, that's not a problem.

 

I actually love the idea of Moiraine taking the throne. And who's better at the Game than Thom? they'd make a stellar ruling couple (i'm not sure what thom's title would be, but it wouldn't really matter). And I thought the main reason she didn't want to be queen way back when was that she wouldn't be able to track down and help the Dragon reborn. Now (maybe) she can help just as much as queen. However i don't think it will happen. the books have been saying elayne over and over, it doesn't seem likely it's going to change now unless the conflict is somehow important to the story.

Oh, I'm pretty sure the conflict will be important. I think Brandon was setting it up with Elayne's disgusting imperialistic tendencies in TOM.

Well, Moiraine seems to want to travel the world with Thom after the Last Battle is done.

A "simple" question.

At the time of end of ToM... Where are all the Aiel?? (there ARE more than 500000 after all)

 

 

Illian, Tear and Arad Doman mostly and the number is closer to 350k than 500k.

The "Bleakness" was taking close to 1000 a day for quite a while after the Shaido defeat at Cairhien.

 

Aren't some still in Cairhien too?

 

There prolly was but I suspect Elayne has "kicked" them out like she did in Andor.

Like David said, she only kicked them out of Caemlyn. Kicking them out of Andor might have been pushing it a little too far. And I don't think she had time to do anything in Cairhien apart from taking the throne. As an aside, I have to say that Elayne getting the throne of Cairhien was one of the thing that dissapointed me the most. I've got nothing against Elayne, but personally I really think Dobraine would have deserved the throne. He's actually from Cairhien, unlike Elayne, and has been the most, and perhaps the only, loyal follower of Rand's from Cairhien. And he would have made a good King.

A "simple" question.

At the time of end of ToM... Where are all the Aiel?? (there ARE more than 500000 after all)

 

 

Illian, Tear and Arad Doman mostly and the number is closer to 350k than 500k.

The "Bleakness" was taking close to 1000 a day for quite a while after the Shaido defeat at Cairhien.

Aren't some still in Cairhien too?

So you mean that the Black Ajah would have used black members among the Red Ajah to influence the other Reds to go against Tower law and gentle male channellers on the spot hoping to take out the Dragon Reborn, is that it? That's actually pretty smart. Shame they're missing the critical information that the DR is just a baby at that time.

Yes, Moiraine realized in New Spring that they didn't know how old the Dragon Reborn was...yet. And the names Logain mentioned really do suggest that the Blacks were trying to influence non-Black Reds to get involved...including Elaida (who was minimally involved) and Barasine...but the other names Logain mentioned were Katerine and Javindhra, and we know they're Black. And somehow (as a result of this?) Galina was raised to Highest of the Red Ajah. (She had only been Highest for 18 years at the time of Lord of Chaos, so she wasn't until 2-3 years after the Aiel War.)

I see. That's quite clever of them. And evil of course, can't forget evil.

So, why was there mass unlawful gentling of men by the Reds anyway?

 

 

Because that's what they do?!?

From a Red's perspective, and any other AS for that matter, they did the right thing.

Any man that can channel has to be gentled. But what they did with Owyn, gentling him on the spot, and making everybody in his village aware of the fact he was a male channeler(DF in their eyes) was a bad thing.

They could have at least make a male channeler protection program or or something like that, so they can live the remaining of their life safe. Pointing them out as DF in the middle of a mob and leave is not right.

Well, yes I realise that the Reds job is to hunt down and gentle male channellers, but they aren't supposed to do that on the spot. They're supposed to take the man back to the WT to gentle him, like Cadsuane has done in the past. My question is why the Reds suddenly started to ignore the, and it must have been execeptional for Cadsuane to refer to it specifically as vile.

The Black Ajah was trying to kill (or gentle) any man who could possibly be the Dragon Reborn. This starts right after the Aiel War, and you can bet that Galina was heavily involved.

So you mean that the Black Ajah would have used black members among the Red Ajah to influence the other Reds to go against Tower law and gentle male channellers on the spot hoping to take out the Dragon Reborn, is that it? That's actually pretty smart. Shame they're missing the critical information that the DR is just a baby at that time.

So, why was there mass unlawful gentling of men by the Reds anyway?

Well, most likely someone from the Black Tower. The Aiel are completely loyal to the Dragon Reborn, and will fight with him on Tarmon Gaidon as will the loyal Asha'man. This will undoubtedly generate camraderie between them, so when the Aiel start discovering channelers amongst them, they will likely make an arrangement to the Tower to train them.

The Ashaman would be giving up their monopoly on saidin, which is very valuable. I expect they'd rather the Aiel come to the BT and become Ashaman. And really what choice would the Aiel sparkers have? If they don't go they're very likely to die. And even if they don't die, their training will very incomplete, since they'll have to learn everything themselves.

The Aiel have channelers as well. In fact, after Tarmon Gaiden they could very well encourage male channelers among themselves as well, unlike the Seanchen who will likely kill off any male channelers found amongst them because they don't have any adam to control them.

 

Honestly, I feel the Seanchen will make a deal with Rand and the Westlands. In return for aid given against the dark one, the Westlands will allow the Seanchen to maintain a small presence there. The majority of the Seancan will be back home across the sea, while a token presence will remain in the Westlands. Furthermore, Rand may even convince them to stop treating channelers like animals and treat them like human beings.

And who will train them? The Aiel male channellers I mean.

I think there will be a shift in seanchan atitude towards channeling with revelations about sul'dam. Otherwise what is the point of Bethamin and Seta's part in the story after it was found out the collar worked on them.

Hopefully there will be, but Tuon is already aware of this and has obviously igoned with the pathetic excuse of not having chosen to channel (because sparkers somehow choose to channel apparently).

Wasn't Avi's vision while Rand was still in dark mode? If yes, then everything might already be different by now. Maybe if she went back into the rings, she would see a completely different future. Also, maybe the visions felt real to her because they were meant to, because of the nature of the ter'angreal. Maybe it is meant to make the channeller believe what she sees, even though it's only a possible future. Anyway, I don't know we will be told what happens to the Seachan after TG. Maybe what we will get will be something that will hint towards a possible positive resolution - like a Tuon POV where she realizes that collaring women is maybe not a good idea after all, or an instance where Aes Sedai save Seanchan lives and the Seanchan feel indebted, or a moment when they come to realize that maybe they don't really have a right - or need to - claim all these lands as theirs after all.

That's one of the theories brought up as to why the vision was so dark.

Sure divide and conquer and all that. Will it happen? No.

It depends on the feeling of unity left behind after the Last Battle. And the Seanchan's part in it. And then there would have to be a reason for the war to begin. It obviously could happen since it happened in the vision, but then there were a lot of...issues, with that vision. Had the Seanchan invaded at any time other than when the DR was present in Randland, I'm positive that they could have swept over Randland. The difference will be how Rand leaves things after the Last Battle.

Agree about the red herring. But I think its pretty clear that if events stay the same the seanchan COULD and WOULD defeat the WT and BT. I don't think its realistic myself but BS has written it in as not only possible but inevitable all things remaining the same.

I think it could happen if the various other forces in Randland (all the nations, and the Aiel), fight the Seanchan seperatly. When faced with a more numerous foe, you split them up and defeat them individually. If however, all of Randland, united, including the BT and WT, come at the Seanchan all at once, I have a really hard time seeing the Seanchan come out as the victors.

This is true. Men often fight with something which can be described simply as lightning, balefire, etc. though there are cases where weaving is described by the channeler, I can't think of any where a male observes the actual weaving of another male.

 

That also reminds me of something I thought was odd before, when Asmo is training Rand he mentions how it would be easier if they had a link. I always thought that was just RJ showing Asmo's devious nature in trying to get Rand to come up with the idea of linking them by bringing the naive Egwene into his secret to link them.

 

However, we have several instances of rand or an Asha'man learning from another channeler. Rand learns from Sammael, and the Ashaman learn new weaves from him. But I still can't think of any specific instance where a male channeler refers to the individual weaves of another male rather than feeling Saidin or seeing the result.

Aginor/Osangar/Dashiva prepares a few weaves described by Rand as "nasty", if I remember correctly, in case Rand wants him to clear his chamber of the AS. This happens at the end of aCoS, in the last or second to last chapter, right after Rand wakes up for the first time after being cut by Fain's dagger, right before he goes off to Ilian to fight Sammael.

They are the first several paragraphs in Chapter 20.

Sounds like typical Mat to me. Maybe he's just particularly annoyed with Joline right then. And Talmanes seems to imply in the same chapter that he's on edge because of his marriage to Tuon.

What caused Mat's first Gathering Storm comments?

just wondering.

What comments would those be?

A random thought popped into my head and I doubt anyone will know the answer, but here goes: why is Logain always refered to by his first name, and Taim by his last name. It's never Mazrim and it's never Ablar. It's always Logain and Taim. Any reason for this?

The stronger a person is in the power, the longer they live right? If that is right, then do male channelers live longer than female channelers on average? Or do saidin and saidar have different strength/life span ratios? It would be sort of ironic if the men do live longer since it's normally the opposite.