1 hour ago, Reader said:

After the potential female dragon change, I'm not that bothered about Egwene being ta'veren.  Uniting the divided tower sounds kind of ta'vereny work, and she's one of the few who can stand up to Rand's ta'vereny powers when he drops in to visit.

 

I still think the DR change was a mistake, but it's not going to spoil my enjoyment of the show.  Do we know if Birgitte has been cast yet, and if so whether it is a male or female actor for this turning of the wheel?

Changing Brigitte would be weird since she’s specially for the being the 1st and so far only exemple of a same sex Aes Sedai - Warded pairing.

I tend to think that Egwene resisted Rand’s ta’verren influence specifically because the pattern wanted her to, not due to something innate about her but that’s just me.

I still can't get over that "4ta'verren line". I'm trying to think of some way to justify that, of someone who would have spread the rumours, despite them being baseless (at that time), or something but I just can't come up with anything.

They could have Egwene as the +1 as you say but outside of the trio but that feels pretty cheap to be honest.

Honestly I'm more bothered by the Ta'verren issue than the Dragon Reborn one. The second is a bit grating, but if they actually do something with then I won't mind as much. It's a much bigger lore change but it's also one that basically doesn't affect the story. I'm mainly worried that they won't have covered every instance where it would be inconsistent with the world as is but we'll see.

The Ta'verren bit though I really don't like. Not only is their a strong significance to the three boys being Ta'verren, linking them together throughout the story all the way back to their births being so close together they were all potential DR, but it also just doesn't fit with Egwene's character I feel.

All three of the boys had to be forced to accept their place and their path in the story. Egwene instead threw herself at every challenge, every opportunity, and every responsibilty. And while obviously she's a massive part of the story, I don't actually feel that events turn around her. Indeed I don't believe she was key to winning the last battle. But without her the victory would have had a cost so great it would have ended up a hollow and pyrrhic victory. She was important not because the wheel forced her into an important position but because she chose to pursue it and embrace that role. Her being ta'verren really weakens her character in that sense to me.

If I had to guess I would imagine the confrontating with Ishamael being eliminated. That or he dies for good. Aginor + Ishamael doesn't seem likely. And I doubt they'll have 3 confrontations with Ishamael. Seeing as the most memorable is at Falme I think that will definitely be in the series in some form.

9 minutes ago, Tim said:

Well if that is the case I will be much happier, given it was only the seeming impossibility of the latter option that bothered me. Does it mean, though, that Ishamael is meant to be much older than the other forsaken? 

Obviously I’ll have to watch again with frequent use of the pause button

Why would you think he’s older? He’s almost certainly lying anyway, since we know LTT never turned to the shadow.

11 hours ago, Windigo said:

I think it has as much to do with making it an ensemble cast, the same reason for focusing on Egwene's braid ceremony thing. In the beginning of the books she is more of an "extra", and companion, we know now what her role is but looking back I really did not build up the same "feelings" for her until later in the series.  So increasing her "role" and possibilities right away creates more of that investment in her. 

Sure I can see that. It’s actually why I kinda wish it wasn’t revealed so early to viewers that Moiraine is searching for the Dragon Reborn. Since the show naturally focuses a lot less on Rand at first, it’s not as obvious he’s the one the Dark One is truly after (although even later on I believe Mat and Perrin are still very much targets).

That being said by throwing Egwene into the mix I do feel like we’re missing the independence and assertiveness that characterized Egwene in the books, at least so far. She is not reluctant like Mat and especially Rand, but neither does she choose her own path.  Other than her budding ability to channel I don’t think there’s much that has set her apart really. 
 

More to come though of course so we’ll see. Despite the above I think the actress has done a very good job and her interaction with Rand are on point I feel.

Hmmm, I don’t necessarily agree with this part: 

“Particularly with Egwene and Nynaeve, we really get insight into their thinking and their lives, which we may not necessarily get in the books,”

For Nyneave, it’s not wholly wrong, since Nyneave is a character who is so dishonest with herself, both regarding her flaws and her qualities.

Egwene on the other hand was not quite like that. I’d argue her character was quite pronounced in the books: fiercely independent, very eager to learn and discover all that she could, unwilling to accept restrictions, certain of herself and confident to a fault.

Indeed, so far in the series even though I quite like the actresses’ portrayal I think we’ve yet to really see the bite and assertiveness which characterizes Egwene. Only 3 episodes in of course so not necessarily surprising but so far I get the feeling they softened her character somewhat. 

34 minutes ago, GanoesParan said:

 

So far, the only times we've seen Mat's dice is in episode 1 there inside the Winespring Inn. 

However, I don't believe that we will have Mat's dice tumbling around inside of his head until season 2. 

I'm not even sure how they're gonna portray that exactly.

Why are we even feeding the troll? The whole thread has just become dumb at this point. People are pointing out the most insignificant details as if they somehow make any difference whatsoever in the story. Often these complaints omit glaring and obvious details that explain the siutation. Perrin's wife helps him with blacksmithing? Oh dear the horror, clearly this has completely changed the entire character and he won't be kickass anymore. A woman holding Rand at swordpoint when he still barely knows how to hold the sword. Blasphemy! Nyneave with the ability to stick a dagger in a trolloc while it's back is turned? What is this heresy!

29 minutes ago, Joe B said:

"The last time someone brought the Dragon to the Dark One..." - Dana

Anyone else find it odd she didn't say the Great Lord? Is that purposeful to not confuse viewers?

 

Another thought...Is she saying Ishy brought LTT to the DO????

The Dark One line is probably to not confuse readers.

As for the other line, I don't find that suprising at all. Of course Ishamael didn't bring LTT to the DO, but third age people have no idea what the truth is when it comes to the dragon. Some say he broke the world, some say he saved it. Some say he fought the DO, others say he served him.

The DO is the Lord of Lies afterall, and Ishamael went so insane he began to think he was the DO. It's totally in character for him to brag about bringing LTT to the Dark One.

A major theme in the WoT is how misinformed so many people all, and the terrible consequences that arise due to people acting on that misinformation. Everyone needs to stop taking the character's lines as sacred truth about the WoT world.

3 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

I saw Moiraine pull it out herself. But yes, that's usually the last thing to do with wounds like that.

Just checked, you're right it actually is Moiraine. She gets a time out for being typical action scene dumb.?

I haven't seen this pointed out yet.

Did they really have Lan pull that trolloc throwing sword straight out of Moiraine like that? I know there's rule of cool and all but isn't the general of thumb that you don't pull a blade right out of body like that willy nilly? He didn't even do it gently either, just yanked the damn thing out.

I know it's a really small thing, but I'm not gonna lie it did make me want to facepalm somewhat. ?

An idea came to me as I was thinking of the episode to come:

In the books we of course never see Logain's gentling because the party is at that point in Fal Dara, or perhaps still in the Blight. Indeed we never see the Aes Sedai gentle any male channeller. In the series however with the party ending up in Tar Valon, it seems likely they will be there at the same time as Logain. Which means they may witness the trial/gentling. 

Now this is interesting for a few reasons.

It puts the viewers face to face with the terrible consequences of the Dark One's backlash on saidin, even millenia after the breaking. And instead of the Red Ajah cruelty (not all of them of couse but still), it is the harsh necessity and responsibilty of the Aes Sedai to prevent chaos and destruction that will be center stage.

Furthermore, Rand witnessing 1st hand the terrible fate that befalls those who proclaim themselves the Dragon Reborn, could serve to add to his reluctance in accepting who he is. And later it would serve to justify his suspicion and antagonism towards Aes Sedai.

Lastly and perhaps most interesting is whether or not in the show Logain will retain his ability to perceive ta'verren. If so with the party present he would notice them instantly. I don't recall if the glow around the ta'verren is stronger depending on just how strong the ta'verren's influence is, but if not it's an easy thing to add. By doing so Logain, just like in the books, would realize how important Rand in particular is, and perhaps even infer that he is actually the Dragon Reborn, particularly if he is surrounded by other ta'verren.

What I would really enjoy is if he would then taunt the Aes Sedai with this knowledge but without revealing it all to them. He could hint at his knowledge, and in some way even (if Egwene isn't ta'verren or if she is but Rand shines so bright its obvious) that he knows the Dragon Reborn is not a woman. For one this could serve to advance the mystery and take some viewers by suprise. And it would also increase the tension and apprehension within the White Tower concerning the Dragon Reborn. Logain could be lying of course but what if he isn't? And it would be totally in character for Logain to do so considering his attempts to sully the Red Ajah's reputation. He's vindictive and would certainly lash out.

Anyway just some thoughts that came up, thought it would make for a cool scene, and was wondering what people thought. Too outlandish?

3 hours ago, DojoToad said:

I just didn't like the the rush.  I understand reinforcements came through the waygate, and that this put immediacy into their departure - but I thought it was cheap and rushed (and unrealistic).  Just my opinion.

 

Cut out the long/boring scene between Moiraine and Nynaeve at the sacred pool and there would have been time to handle it more like the books - conversations with family and friends about not wanting them to go with the witch but probably for the best before more trollocs showed up.

I think if anything needed to be shortened its probably the battle. Nyneave and Moiraine have a very confrontational relationship in the books, I wasn't bothered with them trying to bring it across early.

1 hour ago, Agitel said:

 

I just think they felt that the impact to the actual story they're telling is small enough compared to the blowback they'd have from "of course the savior has to be a man" crowd.

See I would agree with that… except the savoir ends up being a man anyway. That same crowd would still complain I feel like. They could have just had a passage about the heroes of the horn to be honest to show that the dragon isn’t always the hero called upon.

Sanderson seems to say it’s just because Rafe wanted included in the mystery of the Dragon Reborn. Seems like a bit of a weak reason for the change in my opinion. 
 

If he wanted mystery Rand, Mat, Perrin and even Logan seem sufficient to me. Which makes me wonder why they would include the age component in the details given of the prophecy since that detail knocks Logan out of contention.

1 minute ago, Harad the White said:

Disagree. This simplifies the story in an acceptable way.

Not gonna lie, based on this thread and all the potential plot holes being brought up, it doesn’t really feel like simplifying things ?

2 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

If this show ever reaches the point of the black tower, I have to wonder if we'll get to "males are stronger in the One Power. Which is offset by women can link."

 
Hard to say. There’s a lot of intricacies when it comes to the One Power and the differences between men and women. I don’t see how they can possibly get rid of the fact that women can link and men can’t. So you could explain that men have a higher potential strength but then you have to point out that deftness in weaving matters as well, and the differences in the elements and so on and so forth.

8 minutes ago, Agitel said:

 

 

Ishy was convinced they were locked in a repeating battle. Certainly LTT was, but I'm not sure Ishy was right that Ishy was always the nemesis. I think he confused himself with the DO.

 

Also, we don't know if LTT was ta'veren in the AOL. Maybe he was, but the phenomenon of ta'veren was unknown in the AOL.

I don’t remember if it was actually confirmed but there was definitely talk  from the Forsaken of how lucky Lews Therin was, which is definitely reminiscent of ta’veren
 

10 minutes ago, Starganderfish said:

The oath against lying is deeply problematic. As a fun little game, go through the books and count how many times the pre-severing Siuan threatens to "gut someone like a fish" or "turn you into fishbait".?

 

I beleive at one point Jordan tried to back himself out of a corner by stating that an Aes Sedai can lie if "they beleive what they are saying is true, or is somthing they don't mean literally". The "take things literally" thing becomes important because there's a LOT of sracasm and hyperbole from Aes Sedai. I'm sure half the idel threats or sarcastic jibes made in the books would slam right into the oaths.

In the case of the show and the DRagons borth, did she say "we don't know where the DR was born" or "I don't know where the DR was born". And by "we" does she mean none of the Aes Sedai know or just her and Lan aren't sure?
And, using typical Aes Sedai mental trickery - even in the books she doesn't know EXACTLY where he was born. "On the slopes of Dragonmount"... I mean, it's a pretty big mountain...

True, I suppose Aes Sedai trickery could in theory cover it. Still don’t see what the point of the line is though if they’re just gonna back out of it.

I really don’t understand the inclusion of the “we don’t know where he was born line.” That’s clearly what forced out the god awful line about taveren. But why even say it? If you do reveal that the kid was born on Dragonmount nothing points to Rand at the beginning, especially since they’re omitting (at least for now) the fever dreams. And you can even just avoid pointing it out just like in the books if you want to make sure not to take risks with the Dragon Reborn mystery.

Well… technically the oaths say speak I believe. Still not sure why someone would lie in their head, but I suppose you never know.

2 minutes ago, Joe B said:

"Twenty years ago, there was a woman at the White Tower. An Aes Sedai born with eyes so white, she couldn't see anything. Yet still she saw. Glimpses of the turning of the Wheel."

 

Eh, she’s dead don’t need to explain it I guess. Not a very impactful change, totally unecessary but done entirely for rule of cool I guess.

9 hours ago, Beidomon said:

Did they take the Dragonmount birth out of the lore, too? Man I hope not. What’d she say in the narration?

Pretty sure she said they don’t know where. Which seems pretty damn problematic now that I think of it! ?

How in the world could they possibly narrow it down? The entire world an not even just one gender. Did she just go to every village line up all the girls and see if they could channel? And for the dudes she was just like “I’ll visit you in X amount of years. You do anything weird, come find me”?

2 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

Well, I assume you’ve gotta take over at least one country before getting to the FD designation. Even in the correct book lore, tons of men who could channel weren’t considered FDs. 

That and, you know, False dragons announce themselves. Random wilders do not.

1 minute ago, Starganderfish said:

May be an age thing? The guy looked too old to have been born on Dragonmount at the right time (assuming thats still a thing). He's defnotely looking older than Rand.

The Dragon being maybe a girl or maybe a boy also plays havoc with Aran'gar/Osan'gar? 

Lan specifically says he’s the right age. I imagine Moiraine simply chooses to believe it isn’t him. 
 

Place of birth would have been the easiest way to rule people out but I believe Moiraine said they didn’t know where the DR was born. So doesn’t leave much to go on.

Technically women start channeling earlier than men, unless they’re learners something seemingly impossible for the dragon. So at the point where Moiraine is at the I feel like the men would be the most likely option given the women candidates would have already started channeling for the most part.

Of course it’s possible they just removed that distinction even though it’s a clear parallel to puberty.