Rand: Egwene, i am going to break the seals

Egwene: what no rand. you cant

Rand: look the seals are crumbling and if we are going to defeat shaitan then we need to remake the prison again.

egwene: so?

Rand: so, in order to recreate the original creation, we need to get rid of the patch i laid 3,000 years ago and rebuild it from scratch.

Egwene: sounds good to me but we need to plan. What happens after you break the seals. what then?

Rand: *proceeds to tell his plan*

Egwene: I see.

 

That's how a mature battle leader does his things.

 

Instead we get

 

Rand: Egwene i am going to break the seals

Egwene what no rand. you cant.

Rand: It's a risk we must all take. i have to do it. clear the rubble

Egwene: its dangerous action. we must plan.

Rand: lol alright you go ahead and plan. see ya taa daa.

Egwene: what the...

 

 

If that's how a general of battle is supposed to act then shaitan take his soul and leave us in peace

 

Or, you know, maybe Rand actually had a reason for acting as he did and provoking Egwene.

 

Besides, even if Rand expected Egwene to act as she did, it doesn't mean she should have.

he had a reason to provoke? really? is this how the lord messiah zen buddha hare krishna dalai lama saviour of the world supposed to act? provoke his allies?

Oh how bad of egwene to react like that? Like any sane person with authority. She should have said yes my lord dragon. do as you please. do you want to sleep with me? i can have your babies too after the last battle etc etc

Rand: Egwene, i am going to break the seals

Egwene: what no rand. you cant

Rand: look the seals are crumbling and if we are going to defeat shaitan then we need to remake the prison again.

egwene: so?

Rand: so, in order to recreate the original creation, we need to get rid of the patch i laid 3,000 years ago and rebuild it from scratch.

Egwene: sounds good to me but we need to plan. What happens after you break the seals. what then?

Rand: *proceeds to tell his plan*

Egwene: I see.

 

That's how a mature battle leader does his things.

 

Instead we get

 

Rand: Egwene i am going to break the seals

Egwene what no rand. you cant.

Rand: It's a risk we must all take. i have to do it. clear the rubble

Egwene: its dangerous action. we must plan.

Rand: lol alright you go ahead and plan. see ya taa daa.

Egwene: what the...

 

Funny how you can make a post this good and turn right around with one equally bad in the Egwene/Elayne thread.

my posts are always good. that and i always like to ahem interject a bit of spiciness here and there ;)

you know me well enough by now suttree teehee

Rand: Egwene, i am going to break the seals

Egwene: what no rand. you cant

Rand: look the seals are crumbling and if we are going to defeat shaitan then we need to remake the prison again.

egwene: so?

Rand: so, in order to recreate the original creation, we need to get rid of the patch i laid 3,000 years ago and rebuild it from scratch.

Egwene: sounds good to me but we need to plan. What happens after you break the seals. what then?

Rand: *proceeds to tell his plan*

Egwene: I see.

That's how a mature battle leader does his things.

Instead we get

Rand: Egwene i am going to break the seals

Egwene what no rand. you cant.

Rand: It's a risk we must all take. i have to do it. clear the rubble

Egwene: its dangerous action. we must plan.

Rand: lol alright you go ahead and plan. see ya taa daa.

Egwene: what the...

If that's how a general of battle is supposed to act then shaitan take his soul and leave us in peace

I have to say, Im baffled. I was not at all aware of the Eg-hate before I started lurking around in fandoms a couple of months ago. No, I haven't read the "I hate Egwene, she sucks!", because I was hoping maybe someone could explain without all the flaming and hating ('cause that just annoys me).

 

Most of the other characters people hate, I can see why, but I cannot fathom Egwene. She's a bit obnoxius when she's with the Aiel, and I don't agree with how she treats Gawyn in the latest books, but elsewise... Explain please?

this topic has been beaten to death many a time

gawyn is morally bankrupt if you ask me. How do you explain killing your own teachers who were trying to free siuan and yet free her yourself when you get the chance.

I have always maintained on the battlefield he is a level above his brother. But when it comes to moral behaviour, this kid is screwed in the head

I like the idea of moridin getting turned to the light. I've always thought of him as champion of the dark, which is how he himself sees himself(going by his comments in EotW prologue)

Maybe turning the CotD is the only way the light can get a decisive victory over the DO(until next time), the same as many believe the reverse is true for a DO victory.

 

Going to take a fair amount as Brandon in an interview said Moridin is "nastier" than Fain by a long shot.

 

 

 

Oh right didn't know that, that's something we don't see in the books.

Admittedly he sounds very pleased with the thought of the universe ending forever, but, apart from that he seems almost pleasant.

I hate to break it to you but moridin's days are numbered. His link with rand will prove to be his undoing. Moridin is going to be toast

min already has forseen this. Rand and moridin merge which results in one of them dying. more probably moridin

But was she a lesbian?

Does it matter? She was sex. Made berelain look like mother teresa.

She was sexy, had a hot hot body and she was very lustful.

That's enough for me...

Why do we all assume the world will end if the Dragon fails to bottle up the DO again? Is that ever explisitly said? What if the future world is what would happen if Rand fails and falls leaving the bore open. Assuming the main characters all fall in the Last Battle, and most of the Trollocs, and most of the adult-age humans, leaving only the young people that we've seen in Avi's glimpse into the future. I'm thinking the Dark One would continue to make the world a progressively darker place as we've al heard of the descriptions of the time between the drilling of the Bore and the Breaking of the World. Without a doubt, this glimpse of the future is Wrong, and what could be more wrong than the Dark One triumphant?

 

 

if the bore is not sealed, the DO can keep pushing throught the bore and the pattern surrounding the bore becomes so weak, it gives way to his force ripping the prison completely and freeing him.

 

but it will take years for that to happen. remember the war of power lasted a hundred years and shaitan was still behind his prison

 

Yes, thats pretty much what I said above. The vision got me thinking: the world seems to get progressivly darker, not just for the Aiel but for everyone ground under the heel of tyrany, increased industrialization in the world, and instutionalized chattal slavery. Is it the result if the Dragon failing weather due to his kneeling to the Emperess or any other possible reason? The future vision starts several generations in the future, possibly even as much as 200 years on the outside.

 

My question is this if crappy world could come about by a catastrophic victory of the light or a victory of the dark?

the dragon not kneeling to the empress makes no difference to the gran scheme of things. you see if the bore is not sealed up properly or the dragon dies before completing his mission then the seanchan would be the least of everyone's worry.

by the way that seanchan vision by aviendha is just a red herring it will never come to pass

Why do we all assume the world will end if the Dragon fails to bottle up the DO again? Is that ever explisitly said? What if the future world is what would happen if Rand fails and falls leaving the bore open. Assuming the main characters all fall in the Last Battle, and most of the Trollocs, and most of the adult-age humans, leaving only the young people that we've seen in Avi's glimpse into the future. I'm thinking the Dark One would continue to make the world a progressively darker place as we've al heard of the descriptions of the time between the drilling of the Bore and the Breaking of the World. Without a doubt, this glimpse of the future is Wrong, and what could be more wrong than the Dark One triumphant?

if the bore is not sealed, the DO can keep pushing throught the bore and the pattern surrounding the bore becomes so weak, it gives way to his force ripping the prison completely and freeing him.

but it will take years for that to happen. remember the war of power lasted a hundred years and shaitan was still behind his prison

Toyed with the idea that Rand might live myself. Don't think so though I recon he will die giving himself to the land his essance to strenthen the pattern were the DO has made it weak. I think his death will heal the blight and SG will be normal like any other part of the world. The Aiel (what's left) will take up again the way of the leaf. The nations will keep the peace out of respect for the dragon. The seachan will keep there lands in randland but will scrap damane when they see the channellers unite in trying to heal the world after the chaos caused by TG. And so another age will begin.

rand will live. mark my words. no one dies in WOT. at least not the most important characters.

besides, it will be a good sendoff for the man. all these years living with the burden of being the one. he does his job and earns a well deserved break with min. he will die of old age.

i don't see your point.

what happened in VOG is irrelvant at this point. he will win the last battle. It's going to be predictable. The only question now is how will the prison be fixed back to it's pre war of power state

there is no dark vision.

what's going to happen is this

rand wins tarmon gaidon. in the process he loses his ability to channel or something cripples him for good. he retires with min and vanishes from the scene in annoymity. logain assumes leadership of the ashaman

The majority of the aiel get destroyed by the maurading trollocs leaving a few token numbers. they will go back to their old ways.

the seanchan will in the midst of a power struggle and their invasion goals will be hit back by the presence of large number of armies opposed to their slavery customs

hopefire,

 

tanis had flaws too and made a number of mistakes throughout his time in the books. But tanis was relatable. whether in his young days or as a leader. You knew understood his decisions and his motives. Even the mistakes he has done you tend to look at sympatheically.

 

Rand on the other hand reminds me about my old captain in the footie team. You followed him because you had to. Not because you wanted to.

 

Well answer me this. Who in real life would you say Tanis reminded you of? Do you know anyone in real life that you could so closely relate Tanis's character to as you just did with Rand? I think you actually helped make my point.

 

Rands character, in my opinion, seems reailistic(given his unrealistic setting). You yourself said you can relate Rand to this former captain of the football team. Thats pretty much what Im saying. He's realistic, and original. Most people wouldnt name the captain of their football team as there first choice for a Hero. But Jordan chose to do so. And brilliantly done.

 

Also, I dont want you to take anything Im saying as critisism. I completely understand what you're saying. I'm just trying to give you another angle to look at as to why Jordan chose to make Rand the way he did. I think Jordan likes a fundamental realism in his characters, even given the unreal environment they exist in.

 

I think this is also evident in the many posts in this thread about sexism, gender, etc. I'd dare not refute such claims, but I dont think its as bold as many of you suggest. You guys wouldnt see men and women the way they see each other in the book, yes. But assume you have the Power some of these people do. Not just political power, but TRUE POWER. The ability to be completely omnipotent given 99 percent of your situtions. Add to that, the fact that many of these people also happen to be EXTREMELY attractive, AND in some instances (Aes Sedai, women channelers) UNAGING. Somewhat immortal. I'd wager that if all of you woke up tomorow, in your new over-the-top EXTREMELY fit and attractive bodies, combined with a newfound sense of immortality and unequivical power, you'd all act damn near close to what Jordan has pegged you guys for.

 

I think the mans a genius, and has this all thought out extremely well.

sorry i meant the earlier post for you and not hopefire

my current boss is like tanis although she's a woman. I would follow her to hell and back. Rand is not someone you would want to follow willingly. At least that's what i feel. There's nothing engaging, warm, thoughtful, understanding or empathic about him. You say it's realistic but people like tanis also exist in the real world. case in point my boss. when you compare her to my footie captain you see the difference between people who have power in their hands. one abuses it and the other does not.

brujah,

tanis had flaws too and made a number of mistakes throughout his time in the books. But tanis was relatable. whether in his young days or as a leader. You knew understood his decisions and his motives. Even the mistakes he has done you tend to look at sympatheically.

Rand on the other hand reminds me about my old captain in the footie team. You followed him because you had to. Not because you wanted to.

apart from having a series where the bad guys are just so useless, i have never come across a series in where the main character is just so unlikeable and unrelatable.

may be tanis half eleven spoiled me but rand al thor is a poor poor main character.

aviendha's vision is just a red herring really. there is no way in hell the seanchan control the lands beyond seandar. they will have to deal with the combined forces of aes sedai and ashaman. not happening

tylin.

i love me some mature woman

unfortunately andor will be destroyed not by the trollocs but by the incompetence of the lord dragon who allowed the rotting sickness that has spread to the black tower. A sickness that resulted in AS and AM being turned to the shadow.

Then stop reading the books, if it annoys you so much :) Not every fantasy story have to be a blood bath with major characters dying left and right.

too late for that now.

the complete and utter worthlessness of the forsaken and the villains in general. seriously they are all cartoonish villains with the exception of padan fain. struggle between good and evil? give me a bloody break. This aint no struggle.

The apparent invulnerability of the emond fielders. I am so sick of it now. And this disease has caught on to the support cast as well.

after 13 books not one single major character has met its end. what a friggin joke. No tension whatsoever in this series

feels forced and fake.

you don't go to WT and power base of the aes sedai, tell them you are going to break the seals, ignore attempts at planning and simply walk away without a care in the world. That's not zen. That's manipulation and gameplaying. the very things the old rand was very good at.

i have always wondered if that chapter was ever jordan's or sanderson himself. Besides it makes rand completely and utterly boring.

she's got alot of passion and unlike that fool perrin, she knows the responsibilities of being a leader. Without her, that wolf idiot would still moaning nabout how he does not want to lead.

sorry folks but i hate that guy so bad!! Being the best character in the first three boooks to this pathetic one in the latter part is just like a kick in the nuts

rand and egwene spent the entire series away from each other and people are questioning if they are close buddies?

what the hell is going on here?!