/I hate retyping my posts/

 

 

I'm not a mod or anything, but let's not get this thread off topic. Particularly talking about books the OP hasn't read yet. No need to color her opinion before she's read the first sentence.

 

 

Maybe she wants to be spoiled? After all this site is dedicated to WoT and even a very quick glance at the forum before registration could spoil many things. Maybe she wants to know that series is worth her time (and money), or not; who knows, perhaps she will write this after the third book (or before): "I gave up on this series, sorry", or she will continue the reading based on our opinion.

 

As the saying goes ("Always remember that you are absolutely unique. Just like everyone else."), so her perception about the books is her own understanding, and I don't think that we can influence her at all (max. in a very small dose.)

 

Having said that, you are right.

I was starting to get fired up, and then I read the last line. You make good points and as you mentioned just reading some of the thread topics here can give quite a lot away. When I first read the series I started in 1994 and several books were already out. I looked at the sites that the fans had already started making. I got, and wanted some peeks into what was coming without the major plot details. A lot of what Aragem says in her reply:

I do run the risk of spoilers whenever I visit this site to post or ready replies.  And I understand that these books have been out for a while and lot of readers have read them as they were released.  Which is part of the reason I was interested in reading the books as they were all released and the series is complete.  And it is possible that later on I may give up on the series and say I'm out, which I really hope doesn't happen as I feel invested in this series.

 

Everyone has an opinion that can be changed or stay the same based on other's opinions, that's how a conversation exchange works.  

 

I know I have asked for no spoilers before and I mean no plot specific details.  You are free to discuss everything I have already read and I don't mind anyone tell me about their favorite books and why they like this.  Just no plot details.  And so far, people have been careful about that and I understand that sometimes details can slip because someone is just so familiar with the material that the characters feel like old friends or family.  

 

Anyway, hugs all around.  I'm still reading and just gotten behind a little.   

Aragem, as always looking forward to your next update. As a longtime reader these types of threads allows us to relive the series in a different way since we get to share your experience of discovering and wondering again. In many ways it reminds me of when I would take my wife out on our early dates to some of my favorite places that she had never scene before and got to enjoy some of that fresh first experience again because they were new to her (I really wish I could get her into Wheel of Time, but she doesn't enjoy reading novels at all).

At any rate, keep on reading and posting.

 

 

I felt that the first 7 books were awesome. Don't know why some people don't care for the 7th. 

 

Oh don't get me wrong, I liked aCoS, it was a good book.

It simply suffers from following, imo, the 3 very best in the whole series. It was also the first book that we had to wait a little longer for.

 

1. book 4: 386000 words book 5: 346000 words, book 6: 395000 words, book 7: 288000. The change is significant.

 

2. after such a huge climax, the disappointment is understandable.

 

3.

Mat's

chapters are "terrible" (I mean they are pretty slow, nothing ever happens - there are problems with others too), and the reader gets the feeling of the 'the series is slowly falling apart'. 

 

The only book in the entire series I did not like was The Crossroads of Twilight. Although, I do agree with many in suggesting that books 3 through 6 are among the very best 4 of the entire WoT series.

I'm not a mod or anything, but let's not get this thread off topic. Particularly talking about books the OP hasn't read yet. No need to color her opinion before she's read the first sentence.

I'm back!  Fully recovered!  

 

Currently at 9% of The Dragon Reborn

 

In which Perrin gets a visitor in the woods.

 

Min gets a vision of an impending death

 

Rand has a fit and rattles a mountain

 

Perrin dreams a dream

 

 

Instead of the terrific trio, we are down to the dynamic duo of Perrin and Rand.  I heard through the grapevine that this novel, though features Rand as the title character, doesn't have him as the main pov character which is going to be interesting to see how Rand is seen through other character's eyes and that Matt has a POV chapters too may warm him up to me.  

 

Poor Rand.  I don't know whether its stress or is the madness finally getting to him?  I'm hoping he doesn't loose what he leaned in The Great Hunt of how to be a leader.  

 

Props to RJ for continuing the gag of Perrin and Rand thinking the other is better with girls three books on.

 

And another thing I noticed and maybe I'm wrong, but the person Perrin speaks to in the dream before Lanfear shows up (and I believe it was Lanfear he met) is Ba'alzamon because he acted as if his middle hurt, where Rand stabbed him.  The Great Hunt he is recovering from a serious burn injury where he got fried and now he's recovering from a stab wound.  I'm kinda hoping that this is going to be continuing gag of whenever he confronts Rand and is defeated, he suffers from the resulting wound in the next book.  

Lots to comment on, but I won't in regards to spoilers. As others have said, there isn't as much Rand POV in this book. When I first read this book I didn't like the switch, but in re-reads I've enjoyed it much more. The is one of the best Moiriane books if you are a fan of her. She does some cool stuff. You also get your first real look at Mat here and he really comes into his own as a character. He has some of the most fun inner dialogue in the series.

How goes the reading?

Hello all

 

First post - new to the forum but have been reading and re-reading the WoT series since I was first introduced to it in 1993.

 

I admit I haven't trawled through every post here, but I have skim read through...yet no one seems to have picked up the fact that if it is true then:

 

iMdB have the Cast Listing for the Wheel of Time series! 

 

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls074590729/

 

It has apparently been picked up by HBO.  Not sure who this Madeleine Swann is who has submitted the 84 actors and actresses who are playing the various characters.

 

In scrolling through, there were some fantastic selections, and some rather not so good ones.  Again, assuming that this really is the cast, then probably the best cast actor I have seen is that of Clive Standen for Lan (okay, maybe not ugly, but given his role in Vikings he has the height and sword fighting skills to pull this off nicely).

 

I was disappointed with the choice for the main six characters though - never heard of Jamie Campbell Bower but his photo on imdb makes him look far too effeminate for playing Rand.  I suspect that all three actors playing Rand, Mat and Perrin will inevitably resort to taking steroids a la Chris Evans in Captain America (if you don't believe that, look at his physique in the Fabulous Four compared to Captain America).

 

I didn't think Oonah Chaplin looks attractive enough to play Nynaeve, either.  And Lindsay Duncan playing Morgase?  Morgase is meant to be stunning!

 

Yes, I do realise that there will be loads of make up artistry to transform some of these actors into our well beloved (and hated) characters.  But some actors you can just see will "fit" perfectly - eg one look at Ian Whyte's photo and you can see how easily he will transform into Loial.  As for Stephanie Blacker (Amys) - she will have to tan up a fair bit to pass for an Aiel, and doesn't Birgitte Hjort Sorensen look a bit young to play Bair - I thought Bair older than that??  For that matter, given her name is already Birgitte they could have had her playing the character of the same name.

 

So what do you all think?

As others before me this looks like a fans choice for casting... and a fan that is obviously someone that likes Vikings and Game of Thrones as a good portion of the cast comes from those 2 shows.

 

 

     

 

Mat: He has really annoyed me in this book.  Especially his hang up with Rand's attempt to push them away.  I've had scraps with friends before and you get mad, but then you get over it.  I was really expecting the Horn to be blown by Rand, but it seems Mat got the honor, therefore tying another item of legend/power/magic, etc to him.  Of the three boys, he has the least amount of change that I've seen

 

So regarding Mat... as I've said before in Book 3, The Dragon Reborn, he finally gets some attention and some PoV. Without spoiling anything you'll begin to understand that the dagger and it's taint was a big influence on his behavior. If you recall back in book 1, in the beginning he was a pretty good guy if stupid and immature, then as he and Rand traveled on their own he became darker as time goes on. What Moiriane did in book 1 to save him was just a stopgap.

 

He did get a bit better, I will say and I do look forward to seeing how he is on his own without Perrin or Rand.  

 

 

Again... as unspoilerish as I can be: Imagine how he was prior to Shadar Logoth in terms of pranks and getting into trouble, mixed with some ridiculous good luck, a lot of drinking/gambling/chasing girls, and a bunch of reluctant - yet fearless heroism. Throw in some subtle PTSD.

Okay, time for my character breakdown.

 

Rand:  This book has really been transitional for him.  He has moved from being a shepard boy from a small village to being a Lord and then towards becoming the Dragon Reborn.  At first it was a position he was ill-equip for, but was forced into when Moiraine wisely had him trussed up like a Lord to encourage the role of leadership which he is well suited for.  As seen earlier when he, Loial, and Hurin found themselves in the other world, he took on the role of leader of their small group and is publicly recognized as a Lord by the nobility of Cairhien nobles.  Even when they are reunited with the rest of the hunting party, he isn't kow-towing to Ingtar, the warrior lord or Verin, the Aes Sedai.  He speaks to them as if they are on the same level much to the amazement of his friends.  He is leaving a trail behind and his name is coming more and more widely known.  I wonder if Eomond's Field has learned of his activities yet?  

 

I like how Moiraine and Lan both told him he was free to go, but he insists on going along with the Hunt to get back the Dagger for Mat, all the while playing into their hands.  And towards the end, that's what he kept telling himself over and over, but I believe deep down, he knows this is what he needs to do and it's not just for Mat's dagger.  Rand is no longer the wide eye youth that left Eomond's Field.  He's no longer being towed around by Moiraine to flee from Trollocs and Darkfriends, but has a purpose in a quest, several times leading the quest onward.  

 

Perrin:  Perrin is on his way to accepting his role as a Wolfbrother.  Twice, he has used his ability with wolves to help the party, yet at the same time maintaining his secret.  And he has notice the change in Rand and the change in themselves.  I'm eager to see more of him in the following books.         

 

Mat: He has really annoyed me in this book.  Especially his hang up with Rand's attempt to push them away.  I've had scraps with friends before and you get mad, but then you get over it.  I was really expecting the Horn to be blown by Rand, but it seems Mat got the honor, therefore tying another item of legend/power/magic, etc to him.  Of the three boys, he has the least amount of change that I've seen

 

Egwene: Okay, this book hasn't been kind to Egwene.  Tough training at the White Tower, being betrayed and then leashed by a Seanchan and tortured.  And not to mention that she is still dealing with her feelings for Rand.  It was no picnic for her to see Min lying in bed with Rand and was quick to point out the danger of being with a man who could soon go mad, but as Min retorted, Egwene tossed Rand aside to train in the White Tower.  Perhaps she has a problem letting go of him or seeing him with another girl.  One thing I like about what she has taken from the ordeal is an edge that she didn't have before when she left Emond's field.    

 

Nynaeve: In the first book, I didn't like Nynaeve, but I have to say that she has really grown on me in this book.  She has shown me why she is the Wisdom and skipped the title of Novice to Accepted as she handle the situation with the Seanchan with her mega channeling strength and determination.  Her golden moment for me when she snapped open the leash with channeling, using her rage as a power source.  

 

Thom Merrilin:   As much as I am glad to see Thom again, I feel bad for him that he lost Dena.  Dena was an interesting character and I had been expecting to see more of her as I imagined if Thom followed Rand, she would follow Thom.  I believe that Thom killed the king of Cairhien for his part in Dena's murder, though I can't help, but believe that Dena would still be alive if Thom and Rand had never crossed paths.  

So regarding Mat... as I've said before in Book 3, The Dragon Reborn, he finally gets some attention and some PoV. Without spoiling anything you'll begin to understand that the dagger and it's taint was a big influence on his behavior. If you recall back in book 1, in the beginning he was a pretty good guy if stupid and immature, then as he and Rand traveled on their own he became darker as time goes on. What Moiriane did in book 1 to save him was just a stopgap.

I loved reading this thread.

 

I myself am new to the series (currently reading The Shadow Rising). Just finished The Dragon Reborn last week.

 

You reflected most of my thoughts that I had had regarding the characters when I was reading the Great Hunt and The Eye of the World.

I didn't like book 1 much, tbh. It was only on book two when I fell in the love with the series. I re-read TEotW again after The Great Hunt to get a better grasp at the story.

 

Safe to say, I'm hooked and it promises to be an amazing journey. Will be following this discussion!

I felt similar to you regarding the Eye of the World at first. Now having completely finished the series, I am extremely impressed by both the book and RJ as an author (and now count it as one of my favorites in the series). The amount of extremely subtle forshadowing is amazing. The detail at which he built the world and the rules of the various rules for the one power, shadar logoth, dreams, ways, etc...  for it to be as consistent as it is and not just an iterative process that grows as the series went on just blows my mind. He had to have planned things out really far in advance.

Same... she's pretty much at the point where you can't put the book down until the end.

Regarding the women in this series there really isn't anything that comes right out and says it so there isn't a whole lot of spoilers. My take on it is that RJ basically wrote the men and women equally in that they both have places of power both in the culture and politically. Sure, all of the Aes Sedai are women now and that they are very powerful politically. However,  you'll see that through the rest of the world that they are pretty equally balanced in that most of the countries in the series there are strong men and women.

On the smaller scale, this is often sometimes used to humorous effects... for example the Two Rivers Council and their Womens Circle. They are both pretty equal and both think they are superior to the other.

As for Mat, keep an open mind. He comes into his own in the next book and I think you'll start to enjoy him more.

First, let me say that I love reading threads like this. I've read, re-read, and listened to the audio books for this series several times.

I love seeing how people interpret things and like to compare that to my own first impressions to my impressions now. One thing I will share is that as I've gotten older, my appreciations for different characters change even in their early book arcs. For instance, when I first started reading I was 15 (1995) and I couldn't stand Nyneave and felt very similar to you. Now when I read her she seems much more reasonable (usually) despite her temper. I found her Arc through the series to be one of the most interesting.

Keep posting impressions and thoughts. 

The thing that I don't get is why everyone is talking about the sex/nudity of GoT, HBO, and WoT. WoT has quite a bit of both. There was very little in the first book, but quite a bit starting in TGH with Nyneave's accepted test.

The difference, (in the books) is that GRRM gets more graphic while RJ leaves more to the imagination. It could be done and work both ways so long as it isn't gratuitous (which I feel GoT could be at times).

Feels good to be back on this board.

 

Toughest part about trying to discuss the potential TV series is balancing what I personally want to see (a very close adaption with corresponding huge budgets to accomodate everything) vs what actually has a chance to happen.

 

For example, some combination of Nyn, Egwene, Min, Siuan etc can be cut or combined.

 

But to me, that would lose so much of the WoT feel.

 

First and foremost I want the characters and their relationships to be carried across to the TV screen.  It's what made WoT so engaging and long lasting.  We knew how the characters thought, what made them tick, and how they related to each other.

 

I'd keep all the major characters (let's call them the EotW crew plus Siuan and a few others.)  Maybe diminished roles, but have them.

 

The big decision (and this is all just a random splattering of thoughts right now) is what to do with the Seanchan and Aiel.  Seanchan first.  For budgetary and story concisness, do you want to have just one big bad (all manner of DO forces) or do you want to mix in the Seanchan?

 

The Aiel have similar considerations.  Huge new culture, requiring a ton of additional actors.  Is it worth keeping them in?

 

As readers, the obvious answer is YES.  But I can see how each would be left on the cutting room floor due to budget or story condensing.

 

Personally, I hope the approach is not to cut characters and peoples but storylines.

 

Stick to four main storylines, each spreading out as seasons continue.  Rand, Mat, Perrin and Aes Sedai.

 

What the the BIG events? (i.e season finale's)

 

Battle in the Blight/Eye of the World visit (probably need to bulk up.  I can also see this being completely changed to a new, more 'massive' TVish ending.)

Battle at Falme

Battle of Emond's Field

Battle of Caemelyn (FoH)

Dumai's Wells

Cleansing

Rand's TGS realization and nearly destroying the Seanchan/WT battle

 

Some new storyline's will be undoubetdly worked in, but take those and build all storyline's towards them.  (Yes I stopped at TGS, but I figure after that it's just one season that's basically the Last Battle.)

 

Season 1:  EotW

-Major priority: Establishing the characters, relationships and world (Dream sequences are huge, as are developing compelling villians.  Ishy yes, but if those two forsaken are going to be the big battle at the end, they need development or forshadowing as well.)

 

Season 2: TGH, with maybe some TDR thrown in

-Major priority: Further character growth, splitting of the team, Rand coming to abilities.  World building.

 

I'm not going to go season by season because I haven't put much thought into this, but the main point is that I hope the writers etc. build off of and towards main events instead of just cutting characters.  For example, the cleansing being a big event means you have to focus on the Madness of male Aes Sedai, which means some form of Asha'man and the effects the madness has.

 

Bowl of Winds storyline and most supergirl adventures?  Cut the former, and alter the latter to fit whatever major events you chose and the new storylines to build towards them.

 

As much as I hate to say it, it would not be a bad idea to leave Thom actually dead after the confrontation in tEotW.  Moraine as well after FoH.  Snakes and Foxes are AWESOME, and I'd leave them in, but maybe think of another reaoson for Mat to go back, or have it just be Moraine parting some knowledge before in Finnland before dying.  (She doesn't do much in the Last Battle anyway.)

 

Thinking through the big events, Fain is not very relevant.  He can easily be killed off early or not be in at all, and anything major he does be given to someone else.

 

One of the reasons to possibly cut the Seanchan is to give more development time to the Forsakan, who in theory are going to be the main villains.  (Can you imagine if the show creators can successfully translate the 'Where in the world is Demandred' we all went through to numerous forsaken over the course of the series?  Would make for great intrigue amongst viewers I believe.)

 

I'm going to stop now, since I could probably go on for about 10 pages.  I don't even know if any of that made any sense.  Forgive the misspelling of names, been a long time since I've reread the series.

 

I guess the main point is don't cut characters just because there are too many, work the important ones into the storylines, even if it means changing a bunch.  Just try to keep the personalities in tact.

 

Either way, looking forward to it.

I think a lot of people are underestimating the amount of streamlining that the camera and a set of actors can do vs a book. For example let's just take EoTW:

Ep1 - Prologue through saddling up to leave Winespring Inn.

Ep2 - The ride out of Emond's Field - Leaving Baerlon

Ep3 - Baerlon -  escaping from Shadar Logoth

Ep4 - Rands/Mat/Thom to fleeing the fade at WB.

Ep5 - Perrin / Egwene to being captured by the WC + Nyn/Lan/Moiraine preparing to rescue

Ep6 - Rescue of Perrin/Egwene + Rand/Mat to Caemlyn

Ep7 - Time at Caemlyn to leaving via the ways

Ep8 - Ways + Fal Dara

Ep9 - Blight + EoTW

Ep10 - Aftermath + Amyrlyn arriving.

Season 2 I would do Walking Dead style with two 8 episode arcs covering TGH and TDR.

Really don't need to start omitting/trimming characters until TSR when the plot really begins to branch.

If they go the AMC route I'm not worried at all. They've shown they know how to make good TV. I can't think of one of their shows that hasn't done well. The other thing I can say is that despite their budget's they have good effects... The walkers in Walking dead are believable and the costume design and affects on Turn are excellent for a period piece.

Best of all, you'd never see them put something out like Legend of the Seeker.

I'm not familiar with AMC, could you give me a little "tour"? How big is their budget? (I heard that WD is a very simplistic show.)

 

Oh, "Darabont accomplished this with a $3.4 million budget per episode over six episodes. The second season budget? $2.7 million per episode over 13 episodes." *shuddering*

AMC has a number of really good shows. Walking Dead being the big one. I wouldn't call it simplistic and it has a lot of effects. Other good shows are Turn (american revolution story about Washington's spies), Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, and The Killing.

 

I think it could be great. If you're strongly opposed to it, you might choose not to watch. If you feel you must watch anyway, and you've watched 1-5 episodes of the first season and it's not to your liking, then no harm done, right?

 

Look, I like the first 2-3 books of GOT. I really do. My reaction to the first episode: this looks bad, this looks very bad. Pause. I hate the first minutes. What should I do? *shrug* fast-forward to the end. This is not my series. Bye!

 

On topic:

 

1. "major studio" - it worries me. They tend to make 20+ episodes per season so ... Maybe, maybe, Netflix will give 120-140 million dollar to the first season of WOT, who knows?

 

2. They have to cut. A lot. (Will they cram the TEOTW and TGH into one season? Not to mention later books.)

 

3. The ageing cast.

 

4. CGI (landscape, cities, armies, TOP! etc.)

 

the good side: dragounmount will flourish again, increasing book sales

 

To #2 & 3, I think a lot can be cut without losing much. A lot of the world building can be done with the camera and good acting. Also if you take out a lot of the side character PoV's that didn't amount to much in the end you also trim quite a bit. That also means you might be able to shorten the series by several seasons potentially.

Personally, I'm hoping the network that picks it up is AMC. I really like what they do and like how they do the two 8-Episode "seasons" with Walking Dead. I think that would fit really well with Wheel of Time, especially the first 3 books.

As others have said, they manipulate just about the whole political landscape of the main continent, and they use both that political power and the One power to bully everyone in it... that's a major reason. Second is because of the Oath to say no word that is untrue, the way they say things is often very deceitful. Many of them are absolutely arrogant, mean, and just bitchy in general... particularly Reds.

There are exceptions... Early in the book there is a lot of Moiriane, Suain and Verrin, who aren't as bitchy as most, but even they manipulate the crap out of people. 

One of the things to remember is that the Wheel of Time concept (the wheel itself) allows for quite a bit of freedom from the author to allow this to happen. Rand/Mat/Perrin are all Ta'veren. You could make the argument that the Egwene, Nyneave, & Elayne have a lot of similar qualities in how things happen and fall into place for them.

The other thing to consider is just how powerful of channelers they are compared to most Aes Sedai/Wise Ones at the start of the series. They are able to do things that were "lost or "forgotten" almost innately once they get the basics down. Whether or not that's part of whether or not their soul comes built in with some of those gifts or the fact that their strength allows them to do things so easily compared to others that they can push the boundaries with far less concentration.

Finally, the fact that they all had some fundamental training and then were more or less turned loose to do as they pleased as far as Power goes.... not to mention their secret forsaken teacher.

For me it'd be a toss up between Aviendha or Moiraine. As a fitness guy myself, I appriciate a very fit body which basically describes Aviendha and I think she is the most relateable for me. Moiraine, has always just had an allure for me since the first time I read TEotW.

I've always enjoyed Perrin as a character. Some of his storyline dragged a bit with the Faile capture, but that was his storyline and not him.

I don't mind Egwene as much as some... but she gets under my skin now the same way that Nyneave did in the first 5 books -she just assumes she's right and others are wrong.

The only issue I have with her in the scene being discussed is that she didn't even consider WHY Rand would want to break the seals. She doesn't even consider that it COULD be the correct way to properly re-seal the Dark one. Rand even mentioned that he needed the help of the women to do it properly and that part of why the current seals are breaking/didn't work permanently are because it was done without them.

I agree with what some of the others have said. New Spring assumes the reader knows a little more about the world and the way the magic systems work.

I'd say book 6 or so would be a safe point to read it. It's a good story, but it's really interesting back story for fans of the series.

What about using the power to just make life a little more difficult on the assaulting armies? How about a non-stop thunderstorm over thier camp? Not using it as a weapon, but definitely a good way to make life more difficult on them. Lots of ways you could do this... also you can use the power to make noise... make it a constantly loud and obnoxious noise in and around their camp.

Also, what about just using the power to shield certain areas from arrows similar to what the Ashaman did at dumai's wells?