Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

WoT If...Birgitte Doesn't Survive the Last Battle?


Mashiara Sedai

Welcome back to "WoT If?", Dragonmount's weekly theory blog. With the release of A Memory of Light quickly approaching, I thought it would be interesting to take a look at whether some characters will survive or perish during the Last Battle. We'll take just a few people at a time and look at foreshadowing, among other things, that point to life or death after the series.

 

Spoiler warning! This will include content from many books in the series, including Towers of Midnight, and speculation about A Memory of Light. Please read at your own risk.

 

Also, this WILL NOT contain spoilers from A Memory of Light's Prologue, Chapter 1, Chapter 2, or Chapter 11. Please refrain from posting any spoilers from A Memory of Light in the comments section. The A Memory of Light spoiler discussion board can be found here.

 

A few weeks ago, we touched upon the subject of Birgitte, but only in regards to her connection to the Horn. I'd like to expand on that a bit, seeing if she's a prime candidate for death before, or during, the Last Battle.

 

I'll start with the evidence saying she won't die. There's less of this, I believe.

 

As discussed two weeks ago, Min sees Birgitte bound to a man who is "older" and "much younger," but is the same man (Winter's Heart, Chapter 12, "A Lily in Winter"). If Birgitte dies and is reborn right away, she will be younger than Gaidal Cain, like normal. Alternately, she could die and not be reborn, but I think the results would be the same. The next time around, he would be born first and she would be born later. For Gaidal to be the younger of the pair, I'd say that she has to live through this life.

 

That's the only logic I can find that points to her surviving. Now for reasons she will die.

 

Birgitte is a tragic character, one of the most tragic in the series. Her greatest fear comes from losing her memories, which would make her forget Gaidal Cain. She begins to drink heavily to drown her sorrows. She also hates people knowing her past and that she is a Hero. She feels like that title is undeserved in this life because she hasn't done anything to deserve it. In the past, she only did what she had to, and the pressure of living up to her fame is too much for her to handle. She doesn't like the titles Elayne has forced on her, and though Birgitte cares for Elayne greatly, their relationship doesn't bring the comfort it should. In short, Birgitte doesn't have much to live for.

 

One thing Robert Jordan said points to Birgitte's death:

 

Question: What happens to Birgitte if the Horn of Valere is sounded again?

 

Robert Jordan: Read and find out, my children, read and find out. :)

 

In all honesty, I think this means that Birgitte might die before the Horn is sounded again. When asked something along the same lines, Brandon Sanderson gives a straightforward answer.

 

Question: Will Gaidal Cain be spun out as a hero of the horn of Valere should the horn be sounded again? Can a hero show up there if alive? Will a hero become a "copy" that rests within the horn until called to arms?

 

Brandon Sanderson: As I understand, if you are 'spun out' you do not respond to the call of the Horn. So no Cain showing up if it is sounded again, as he's been spun out.

 

The same would be true about Birgitte. Even if she hasn't been "spun out" in the traditional sense, her soul isn't in Tel'aran'rhiod to come to the call of the Horn. And if she died, I think her soul would go to the "waiting place" before going to Tel'aran'rhiod (which is also the reason I don't think Rand will be ripped out of Tel'aran'rhiod after his death). Of course, there are some things Robert Jordan RAFO'ed that Brandon Sanderson has answered, so perhaps that's not the best proof.

 

So here's something better. First, Elayne thinks about how Birgitte is unable to use a sword.

 

Winter's Heart

Chapter 7, "The Streets of Caemlyn"

 

Unlike them, she [birgitte] wore neither sword nor armor. The memories of her past lives were fading—she said she could remember nothing at all clearly before the founding of the White Tower, now, though fragments still floated up—but one thing she claimed to recall absolutely. Every time she had tried to use a sword, she had nearly gotten herself killed, and had even done so more than once.

 

Next, Elayne comments on how Birgitte refuses to use a sword.

 

Winter's Heart

Chapter 27, "To Surprise Queens and Kings"

 

The suggestion that she [birgitte] wear a sword had been quashed with as much indignation as if Elayne had asked Aviendha to wear one. Birgitte knew the bow, but she claimed she might stab herself trying to draw a sword.

 

And finally, Birgitte is wearing a sword.

 

Towers of Midnight

Chapter 22, "The End of a Legend"

 

Though she had Guardswomen and men with extra bows at the hallways, Birgitte herself carried a sword, for an assassination attempt would most likely turn to close-quarters fighting.

 

This, my friends, is foreshadowing. And notice how it's dropped in so casually; there's no extra attention given to it. That's good foreshadowing. In fact, when Towers of Midnight first came out, many people questioned this part in the book. It seemed so out of place with Birgitte's earlier insistence that she won't touch a sword. I think a lot of people thought it was a mistake of sorts, but I'm sure it's just a hint of things to come, trying to sneak below our radar. As a student of literature, I feel these little signs are meant to be important clues to later plotlines.

 

One last thing Min saw around Elayne might point to a tragic event with Birgitte:

 

The Great Hunt

Chapter 24, "New Friends and Old Enemies"

 

"She says that a great deal," Elayne said dryly. "One of the things she said she saw looking at me was a severed hand. Not mine, she says. She claims she does not know what it means, either."

 

Perhaps it's Birgitte stabbing herself, cutting off her own hand by accident? Or maybe something not so accidental? Maybe it will be some sort of sacrifice, Birgitte giving up her life to save Elayne's?

 

I think Birgitte is going to be the most important character to die during the final book. I honestly believe all of our "main" characters will live. We'll go into some of the possibilities of that sometime later. That's all for this week. For next time, I want to speculate a bit on the connection between the three ta'veren. Thanks for reading!




User Feedback

Recommended Comments



Mashiara Sedai

Posted

I think the only difference is the strength. I think it's similar to a pond and a lake. An angreal "holds" a smaller amount of accessible One Power than the sa'angreal, the way a pond holds a smaller amount of water than a lake. (Obviously not the best comparison, but bodies of water are judged by size, unlike a screwdriver and a novelty screwdriver.)

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the only difference is the strength. I think it's similar to a pond and a lake. An angreal "holds" a smaller amount of accessible One Power than the sa'angreal, the way a pond holds a smaller amount of water than a lake. (Obviously not the best comparison, but bodies of water are judged by size, unlike a screwdriver and a novelty screwdriver.)

 

so then its merely opinion? where do they draw the line where angreal becomes sa'angreal?

 

and imo, theyre all just big puddles ;-)

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mark you write all your stuff like its hard facts. It's all speculation and guesses. You have no way of knowing if Cuendillar is black if Saidin is used. You have no way of knowing what weaknesses and flaw's that Callandor has. Cadsuane was the one that said it needed to be used in a circle. Even her words are not ROCK HARD PROOF. Also there is an UNKNOWN flaw with Callandor that is yet to be seen. I'm not saying Rand will just get a hand because he's missing one. I believe his new hand will be a ter'angreal. I know its crazy. But if I'm right, I'll get to say I told ya so.

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mark you write all your stuff like its hard facts.

i find it quite difficult to theorize while believing that im wrong...

 

that much said, the "black hand", which is resistant to the fluxuations of the power, would either be cuiendiar, or an unknown ter'angreal, or a darkfriends hand, or... something else entirely... there are many theories on what thats talking about, and i dont know which camp i fall into...

 

as far as im aware, we've only seen two colours of cuiendiar... black and white... and all cuiendiar we've seen made, is white... meaning either we just havent seen women make it black, or its a thing of saidin... which, as its the last book, would kinda be a bad logical progression as far as story-telling goes...

 

as for callendor, we can only theorize on what we've seen... when it was used at the cleansing, in a circle we noticed nothing unexpected, it worked like any other sa'angreal... and every time its been used without a circle, we've yet to see it cap out... we also know that circles act as a buffer, that you cannot draw so much that you burn out... this leads me to believe that the circle is acting as the buffer that callendor is apparently missing... i have no evidence to show that cadsuane is wrong.

 

and i dont see how a ter'angreal hand, or a cuiendiar hand for that matter, would negate that... we've yet to see an angreal being made, letalone a sa'angreal, letalone a "patch" to make a flawed one work... imo, its a bit late in the series for that...

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always took the severed hand to be Birgittes. With RJ's foreshadowing, I saw it as Elayne losing her 'hand'. Her advisor, her protector, in a great sacrifice, and then I think she will ride to the last battle when the Horn is sounded, to be spun out again later, younger than Gaidal.

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi everyone, i reasonably new to the website so bear with me. I share some of your views on who might die and what will happen in a showdown with Moraine and Cyndane.

What puzzles me is is Rand's vision of Meirin (if i have the spelling right) in the world of dreams. If i remember correctly, Meirin bored the hole in the dark ones prison when she went over to the shadow. She is Lanfear. I cannot remember where i read it though.

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi everyone, i reasonably new to the website so bear with me. I share some of your views on who might die and what will happen in a showdown with Moraine and Cyndane.

What puzzles me is is Rand's vision of Meirin (if i have the spelling right) in the world of dreams. If i remember correctly, Meirin bored the hole in the dark ones prison when she went over to the shadow. She is Lanfear. I cannot remember where i read it though.

 

welcome.

 

and yes, meirin is lanfear, she was the main one who originally bored the hole into the DOs prison... we saw this vision when rand was doing his adventure through the pillars of rhuidean...

 

this is ironically why i think that she will be mainly responsible for giving rand the key to recreating the prison... she has the most knowledge about it.

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites

@wolfbrother15

to add a few words on the subject,rand's first trip to rhuidean happened

in the "shadow rising",when he walked through the ter'angreal columns

and saw a series of flashbacks.

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites

About the 'severed hand'.. Being severed, there would be a lot of blood, the hand would be red with it.. I think that the 'severed hand' referes to the Band of the Red Hand, and that this Viewing indicated that Elayne will be closely involved with Mat and the Band. Which she now is.. the cannon, the Band working for her, and so on.

 

Re Birgitte: That Viewing of Min's:

 

'Some (of the images)were connected to an ugly man who was older that she, and others to an ugly man who was much younger, yet somehow Min knew they were the same man.'

 

I read the 'she' in this as the Birgitte who was alive and standing in front of Min as she had this Viewing, not a Birgitte in the Viewings. So I think this indicates that Birgitte is still bound to the Wheel and the Horn, in the same relationship with GC as she always has been.

 

And I don't think Birgitte will survive! In particular, I think Elayne will get herself kidnapped again, be held prisoner in (as someone suggested) a vacuole so that her pregnancy is completed in a different timescale (*coughBrandoncough*)#, she will be rescued, emerge, and go into labour. This will break the bond with Elayne that is keeping Birgitte alive!

 

#Edited to add ref:

http://aidanmoher.com/blog/2012/04/asides/brandon-sanderson-talks-a-memory-of-light-reveals-wheel-of-time-mysteries/

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites

My son ; he thinks callandor might be held by a Rand from an alternate world; parallel to rand holding callandor. That we shall get a glimpse of the multiple sealings.

I am counting the days!!!!!

Share this comment


Link to comment
Share on other sites




Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Add a comment...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...