[Basic] I <3 the 90's Mafia: Music Edition - TOWN WINS!

[Sili Quirrels]

It must have been really important compared to what was in the thread.

[alannalynn]

Really bad storm in Spartanburg right now. Hoping the notes on my computer keep.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

I still don't feel better about Lenlo than I did before, though.  His defense against Sili basically boils down to the fact that Lenlo didn't say anybody was scummy, verbatim.  He's not wrong...but I don't see why Sili SHOULDN'T have read into Lenlo's post that way.  Saying somebody 'seems off' has a certain connotation to it.  It's no different than saying somebody 'sounds good'.  

 

So again, if Lenlo honestly WASN'T trying to imply a...lack of towniness?... he made that catch up post to contribute nothing.

 

And the entire time he was going back and forth with Sili over the same points, he still didn't really give any opinions that MATTER.  Even when he was saying Sili seemed like an over-committed wolf, Lenlo still treated him like he knew Sili was town.

 

 

 

Like, im trying to understand where your coming from and your reasons. But all your doing is hardlining against me and refusing me at almost every turn. Its not the attitude id expect of someone trying to solve the game, but rather someone who had over committed to a wolf read and knows theres no backing out now. Rather then discussing it and your other reads with me your shutting it down and saying "piss off wolf".

 

Cmon dude. Not talking aint gonna resolve/solve anything.

 

 

 

Like, im trying to understand where your coming from and your reasons. But all your doing is hardlining against me and refusing me at almost every turn. Its not the attitude id expect of someone trying to solve the game, but rather someone who had over committed to a wolf read and knows theres no backing out now. Rather then discussing it and your other reads with me your shutting it down and saying "piss off wolf".

 

Cmon dude. Not talking aint gonna resolve/solve anything.

I don't want to be stuck here for another 3 hours trying to communicate with a wolf when the wolf is intent on not understanding anything.

 

Quit it with the narrative. Im trying to move away from our argument because we both know the other wont budge. Fine.

 

So help me figure out everyone else. If im really a wolf, talking about other people will help you ferret them out. If im town it will give you more to go on in the future. Your not getting a lynch with just you so until other people weigh in and add something new, talk about other reads.

 

 

How do you make the red statement and the blue statements to/about the same person?

 

You saw what I saw

 

I think Sili has been weirdly defensive and self-contradictory this game too but...that seems to be Sili. I don't know Lenlo.

 

first time liz communicates with clov and since i just brought it up i figured i should quote the first time it happens.

 

incidentally i am starting to think bfg was right. don't know why clov would go after a teammate like this.

 

Liz mentioning me also brings to mind that she keeps asking about the sk and no one answers and so wouldn't the natural course of action to be explain why you're asking?

 

Meh.

[Sili Quirrels]

Really bad storm in Spartanburg right now. Hoping the notes on my computer keep.

stay safe :/

[Sili Quirrels]

interactions with clov seem cursory so far. it's starting to be a pattern.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok but i want quotes up to the point where you said this not AFTER.  i want to see where youre coming from.

 

The longer you take to do it kinda makes it look a little worse tho imo.

 

You're not getting them. Let me try to explain this again, since you don't seem to be understanding me. I'm OVERWHELMED by the sheer amount of posting that's going on this game. It's the worst I've played in so far on DM. You couldn't pay me to slog through all that again and get quotes for you. I will do better later on when there is less posting or specific things catch my eye. For now, I have a couple of GUT reads. 

 

If you confuse being overwhelmed with being scummy, then vote me.

 

 

Gotta treat everyone the same Lily.

 

You said you trust her I want to know why.

 

 

Did I? I thought I said she feels town to me. I don't trust any of you yet.

 

 

Ya ok.

 

Why are you liking, reading her Town

 

 

You keep asking, like you expect my answer to change. Gut feeling.

 

 

 

I was actually reading Zander as town up until seeing this exchange....this reminds me of what he did to me in Mafia Karts :(

 

 

1. What did you see that made you think that?  Based on conversations we've had about Zander in the past, I would have expected the opposite from you.

 sili: interesting. i don't remember clov pushing liz for this.

 

2.I saw your read on Lenore.  I don't really have any issue with it, but was there something that made you change your mind on her?  The way you phrased it kind of makes me think you're not there with her anymore?

 

3. Besides them, do you have reads on anybody else yet?

 

 

 

 

 

Joking.

 

Lenlo was a slimmy player last game. He's just as slimy this game. His reactions have a certain steadfastness that are town however.

Oh please your just crap at reading me. Don't you blame this on me. People correctly read me last game and are correctly doing so this game. You just don't like that I think other things are important that you don't and vice versa.

 

So you think Sili is town?

 

 

4, I don't think this means anything much for your alignment, but I just wanted to say, you're basically a saint

 

1. Ummm....I already explained this to Zander. Zander asking the same question over and over again without progression is what reminded me of scum!Zander. What I've heard/seen of town!Zander is that he's stubborn, but repeatedly asking things like "explain in detail this gut read that you have on player x" over and over again to the same response "it's a gut read! what else do you want me to say!" reminded me of what he did to me in Mafia Karts. sili: i read the quote chain, and only saw lil say gutread once. ill double check this and confirm in a moment. but if that's true this seems like a misrep of zander because lil said gut read once, after zander asked lil a couple times. so if we're being intellectually honest it's not equivalent with what liz describes here as zander's scum game.

 

2. I didn't change my mind on Lenore. I said I thought she and Zander's (early) argument looked like town vs. town to me based on how I've seen her play town in the past.

 

3. Yes

 

4. Awwwww

 

whoops. here is something more significant.

 

i already know i'm quoting it so i haven't read it yet. one sec.

 

could interpret (4) a couple ways i think so i'm not going to comment on it. i could easily be reading too much into it already.

 

the rest of what i had to say can be found in blue in the quote chain.

 

i got to check something on lil right now.

[Sili Quirrels]

Okay, so I was wrong about the back and forth between lil and zander, but Zander said this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll be honest here. I may have to drop out due to the sheer volume of posting. I don't want to, so I'm going to try to hang in and see what happens. For now, I don't really have any strong reads, but I'm liking BFG a bit. 

 

What about BFG do you like?

 

 

Give me some time on this. Right now, I'm forming gut reads. BFG and Laine are feeling town. Later on, I might have something more concrete for you. 

 

 

Please do this.

 

 

I will as the game progresses. Right now, I'm having trouble processing all the data. You guys post a LOT and lot of you post long posts. It's hard to weed through. Like I said, give me some time, and I'll do better. 

 

 

 

Ok but i want quotes up to the point where you said this not AFTER.  i want to see where youre coming from.

 

The longer you take to do it kinda makes it look a little worse tho imo.

 

-so i don't feel too bad.

 

in light of zander saying this his position makes a lot more sense for an impartial observer.

 

the quote chain liz responds to later is on a different track i suspect. there's no gaurantee liz saw the entire back and forth and so it might be irrelevant.

[Sili Quirrels]

'it might be irrelevant' - i mean i can't say for sure whether liz was intentionally misrepping zander.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

 

 

 

Do You guys really think his town comment was a TMI?

in a single sentence he went from a slight town read to a strong town read. tmi if you're town.

I took it as joking.

 

joking about what?

 

 

 

It was very much not a joke and do not give him that out Hally.  He said he forgot to put you on his list and he added you in there with a snap post.  That's a spur of the moment mistake.

What was this about? Who was he? you guys didn't quote and I'm too tired to parse through the thread to find it.

 

 

From what I recall these sorts of posts are a pattern for Liz. I remember that she says a lot that she needs to do something, or is unwilling to read much further. Liz has a tendency to not put in the effort, or not look like she's putting in the effort, and yet sometimes she over-explains herself when she doesn't have a strong incentive to do so.

 

Doesn't fit.

[Sili Quirrels]

Even when Liz did her wot series on me, didn't she say at the end there was more to do and that she'd get to it later?

 

That's what I mean. So far I'm seeing that happen in her iso with some passing regularity. I'll keep track of it from now on.

[Sili Quirrels]

Is a better way to phrase it that Liz leaves things half finished? - as opposed to saying she doesn't put in the effort?

 

Yes, I think so.

[Lizabeth]

Is a better way to phrase it that Liz leaves things half finished? - as opposed to saying she doesn't put in the effort?

 

Yes, I think so.

Is it a better way to phrase it that you are trying to shade me again with language?

 

You know how I play Sili, so stop acting like you're ignorant.

 

What was it you said in Mario Karts after I flipped town doctor after you were tinfoiling me?

 

Something to the effect of "Oh. I  guess Liz plays strategically after alll"

 

When people try to pretend that they don't know something they should...

 

And no, that's not me shading you. That's me calling you out.

 

I'm catching up now. See you in a bit!

[Lizabeth]

 

 

p indicates page, # indicates post number, I will generally link if I'm referring to a particular post (if I feel like it, which I probably wont)

 

p140 Clov says he needs to take a look at Liz, easily says he would lynch Darthe/Wish

 

p141 Zander scum reading Lenlo (he was already pushing Wish and calling her scum)- reasons for death?

 

p142 Clov linking Lenore/Lily, and Lenore/Darthe, which really is useless now; there's actually also a defense of Liz happening bc Liz mistakenly said Celeste instead of Wish: Chris derp clears her for this (carries on through the next few pages); both Z and BFG mention her lower involvement than in Mafia Karts though I know she's mentioned being sick (#2843)

p142 #2834 BFG makes a post on Liz, showing that Liz voted Seph d1 while focusing on Lenlo, which looks odd. #3866 Clov responds and argues against BFG's case and ends up refuting it... I guess? I'm struggling to see if Clov was defending Liz or white knighting her (this conversation mostly carries on until 145 if anyone wants to look)

 

p146 #2910 Weird vote? Besie votes Niniel and then says "when I'm caught up I'll see who I want to look at again" as if she's just sitting a third vote on a train without reason. Strange. And then #2921 she said there's not reason she's going to change her mind and isn't going to reread her which imo is anti-town. I like that Sili calls this behavior out. This:

 

 

so in summary you feel like you need to get a vote down right now on a wagon that got two votes in 5 minutes.

Basically this exchange is super wolfy for Besie. She's dropped a third vote on a train that built pretty dang quickly at the start of day even though she hasn't caught up (I think she said she hadn't read pgs 50-80) and states that nothing is going to change her vote but she needs to reread other players. Why the heck not reread the person that you're voting to be more sure about what you're doing? It's so so sus

 

#2957 Is weak imo. I need raisons.

 

#3033 I'm realizing Kat has no remorse for people that are busy when day starts. :/ She was complaining about people not checking in at start of day, which was at 945am... and this post is at like 345pm, 6 hours later. I was sleeping during that time

 

p153 Wish makes a push on Lenlo, want to see where this progresses; compared to Niniel's post right after that, Wish's "I want to look at Lenlo" is weak.

 

p154 #3069 Lenlo defends Wish- dislikes cases that have been made on her

 

#3085 I kind of like that Kat brings up Zander's anti-Liz stance. That and his stance on Wish made me think he's was a good kill n1. Because otherwise he was nk'd for A) only going after Wish (a lot of people were doing this) and B) get the page count down, imo

 

p155 Sili is right, re: Lenlo's behavior

 

A lot of these pages are Hally/Sili going back adn forth and I'm just skimming through them until I have something to comment on.

 

#3242 this post doesn't bother me in context

 

Kat prob definitelly town.

 

#3277 ????? LIZ? I hate this vote. Vote drop and "I'm not caught up, will be back and explain this later" Is just gross gross #3307 I'm still confused. #3311 barely helps

 

p169 #3361 Clov defends Lenlo's EOD

p169 #3375 Wish also defends Lenlo (Note: I find it strange that she pushed Seph over the edge and didn't notice his frustration as townie on Day 1, yet here she's applying different standards to Lenlo)

 

 

//pausing top of 170 Note: that just took 3 hours to read 30 pages skimming >_>

 

Notes:

• Zander was pushing Lenlo, Liz, and Wish d1. Earlier I questioned why he was NK'd- he creates a difficult environment for people to catch up, making it easier for scum to hide. He also could have been a mislynch if pushed enough, imo. Additionally, I don't think scum reading just Wish is enough reason to nk Zander, but that's just me. I think it's likely one of Liz/Lenlo are mafia.
• Chris defended Liz and Besie, Lenlo defends Wish and vice versa (Wish applied different standards to Lenlo than Seph**), Liz and Besie both independently wolfy
• Kat looking really townie, so does Sili

 

Can you explain to me how I'm wolfy, Alanna? Because I don't recall you actually giving any kind of explanation for your sudden shift to a "wolfy" read on me.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

Is a better way to phrase it that Liz leaves things half finished? - as opposed to saying she doesn't put in the effort?

 

Yes, I think so.

Is it a better way to phrase it that you are trying to shade me again with language?

 

You know how I play Sili, so stop acting like you're ignorant.

 

What was it you said in Mario Karts after I flipped town doctor after you were tinfoiling me?

 

Something to the effect of "Oh. I  guess Liz plays strategically after alll"

 

When people try to pretend that they don't know something they should...

 

And no, that's not me shading you. That's me calling you out.

 

I'm catching up now. See you in a bit!

 

just trying to portray accurately what's happening. others are free to agree or disagree, or contribute in their own ways when i quote the posts.

 

i notice even you aren't disagreeing exactly. whatever then.

 

i really don't remember much about the mario kart game. believe that or don't. i really don't care waht you think, but there's no reason i wouldn't lie about that. if you think more strategically i don't think that really helps you.

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

I'm not. Just stating facts

Sure.

 

Except you asked to be prodded, and so you have no business complaining or using negative words to describe my actions.

 

I mean... I didnt and I do? Opinions?

 

This is just arguing though so, well have to agree to disagree. 

 

Im not sure on Besie as a wolf lead, because Clov seemed pretty intent on pushing her if I remember right. Liz would be a better bet between those two. And Laine still bugs me.

 

I'm right. If you don't want to have the discussion, then what happens is I assume I'm right and wherever I see you say or imply otherwise I tell you to shutup.

 

Let me state my thoughts clearly. You criticized me for my reasoning and I defended myself, so I will not let you complain freely about how I nagged you when I was only defending my right to a valid opinion and now you moan and complain whenever someone asks you to contribute to the game like a damn player.

 

Stop putting this on me.

 

Weren't you the one saying to him the other day that you weren't going to engage him in conversation because he's a wolf?

[Sili Quirrels]

'would' not 'wouldn't' of course.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

 

 

 

I'm not. Just stating facts

Sure.

 

Except you asked to be prodded, and so you have no business complaining or using negative words to describe my actions.

 

I mean... I didnt and I do? Opinions?

 

This is just arguing though so, well have to agree to disagree. 

 

Im not sure on Besie as a wolf lead, because Clov seemed pretty intent on pushing her if I remember right. Liz would be a better bet between those two. And Laine still bugs me.

 

I'm right. If you don't want to have the discussion, then what happens is I assume I'm right and wherever I see you say or imply otherwise I tell you to shutup.

 

Let me state my thoughts clearly. You criticized me for my reasoning and I defended myself, so I will not let you complain freely about how I nagged you when I was only defending my right to a valid opinion and now you moan and complain whenever someone asks you to contribute to the game like a damn player.

 

Stop putting this on me.

 

Weren't you the one saying to him the other day that you weren't going to engage him in conversation because he's a wolf?

 

You're going to have to elaborate if you want me to respond in an effective way.

 

Possible you don't want me to, and that's fine, but I figure I should let you have the opportunity to start acting like a villager.

[Lizabeth]

Now. Besie and Liz. Liz > Besie, because Clov looked to be going after Besie seriously.

How was he seriously going after Besie other than that last minute flip that was too late to count?

[Lizabeth]

 

I'm probably going to check out chris' content on you before I decide whether to vote you. It does not need to be decided right away. You are wolfy of course, and everyone finds you wolfy, but if you're town you might be lucky, who knows.

Alright. I dont expect you to change your mind, but you do you.

 

If/when I flip town, who are your go tos? Ive said before, I think Liz is a better lynch the Besie and im curious what others think on it.

 

Okay, this is my last comment as I catch up because I don't want to clog up the thread with comments from last night.

 

But if I'm a wolf and Besie isn't, then who do you think is my wolf partner?

[Lizabeth]

 

 

Now. Besie and Liz. Liz > Besie, because Clov looked to be going after Besie seriously.

a game related post

 

not sure if true, but who do you think is mafia if liz is but besie isn't?

 

Its scary I know, but I do have afew. Im not completely hopeless this game.

 

If Liz is a wolf, I really think it could be Laine. Shes really only popped up when her name is mentioned and has been in perpetual catchup/iso mode. The one read ive seen her repeat over and over is me, because im a safe wolf read at this point. 

 

Now whether its her schedule and coincidence that this happens, I dunno. But im inclined to steer away from coincidences.

 

Never mind, you answered....

 

Okay, just going to focus on catching up now.

[Lizabeth]

kat voted wish at a critical moment. clov and liz put a lot of emphasis on that. either tmi or strategic and it's hard to tell in retrospect.

 

basically tomorrow will be a bunch of review for me. i'm not entirely looking forward to it either.

Okay, I can't let this one go.

 

It's called logic Sili. You yourself FINALLY came to that conclusion supposedly last night

[Lizabeth]

And BFG came to the same conclusion as well. Because: logic

[Sili Quirrels]

 

kat voted wish at a critical moment. clov and liz put a lot of emphasis on that. either tmi or strategic and it's hard to tell in retrospect.

 

basically tomorrow will be a bunch of review for me. i'm not entirely looking forward to it either.

Okay, I can't let this one go.

 

It's called logic Sili. You yourself FINALLY came to that conclusion supposedly last night

 

i don't have all the facts because i'm a villager. you can have valid logic but if your assumptions are faulty your conclusions might be wrong.

[Sili Quirrels]

Anyway, if you read honestly, in the context of the thread I am saying that Kat voted wish at a critical moment and so that is why she is probably town, but I still need to review.

[Sili Quirrels]

I don't feel like I have much of a choice but to tunnel you because you're tunneling me and that's not exactly a great headspace to be in to iso you honestly. sigh.