[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[Cass]

I'm not removing Pral from the bottom end of my PoE just yet, but I'm not entirely convinced he's scum. What bothers me most is his low activity D1 (null for Pral but ?catch up effort indicative that he was trying harder to avoid a lynch?), his early push on me after I FoSed Zander, the large post linking my Csarmi vote with the idea of a bus (feels rather planned after the 'I'd want to keep scum bussing in mind' post a bit before it) and the fact he focuses on my play a lot, calls me out for not questioning Csarmi before the vote, but failed to note that I actually did have a couple of jabs at Csarmi before the vote/bigger push. He had a couple of meh posts with Zander, nothing on Csarmi until the flip. I'm not sure here.

 

Nolder is next on my list of suspicion/need to ISO. IIRC he's actually been working harder than Pral to actively discredit my play, which is potentially scummier. 

 

 

 

@Pizza - If you're thinking of CFD I want to know who so I can ISO in comparison before I vote. 

 

I think if anyone bussed Csarmi it was Kaylee, but I've seen less of what bothered me about her on D1 in this phase.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am asking people to please lynch Kaylee first before anything else happens.

 

If she is scum, you never lynch Pralaya.

 

I was willing to resolve Pralaya so I could blue Nolder.

 

Well, Kaylee is still in the POE, and I'm willing to resolve Kaylee so I can blue Pralaya.

 

Kaylee flips innocent, then we'll talk about Pralaya.

 

This is my executive decision and I need town heroes.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Cass, don't ISO anything. We agree Kaylee can be scum and I am solid blue, and you're aware of why.

 

I'm asking you to do me this as a favor. Move your vote right now if you're so inclined.

 

Then re-read if you wish.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Laine, you're following me to hell or heaven, right?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Shad, you'll probably get back in time as well.

 

I just need 4 besides me. I see 2 here, plus me, plus Pralaya's vote.

 

So, that just leaves 2 more.

 

This is doable but you have to want to try.

[alannalynn]

I'm willing to change my vote if needed, I don't have a break in classes until 3 hours from now though.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If Shad votes, that leaves 1 hero.

 

I don't buy defeatist arguments that we don't have enough time. They have shorter phases on other sites and CFDs happen within a few minutes there.

[alannalynn]

Laine, you're following me to hell or heaven, right?

do you believe you're right?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm willing to change my vote if needed, I don't have a break in classes until 3 hours from now though.

 

Can you do it now, and change it back if we lack votes in 3 hours?

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

Laine, you're following me to hell or heaven, right?

do you believe you're right?

 

 

Yes.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The odds of this thing happening are much higher if we do it now, not later guys.

 

If you want a quickie explanation I can elaborate, but more important to me is seeing the vote movement.

[alannalynn]

[unvote] I'll definitely be here at 11, class lets out at 1040

[alannalynn]

[v]Kaylee[/v]

[alannalynn]

Vote tags are hard on mobile

[alannalynn]

Give me something simple to read once I'm out of/between classes pizza. I want to know why this is the BEST way to go

[Askthepizzaguy]

Give me something simple to read once I'm out of/between classes pizza. I want to know why this is the BEST way to go

 

Yeah, I won't do anything too complicated.

 

I had time to ISO Pralaya. I won't talk about stuff I think is null, I'll just point out a couple things about him.

 

And on Kaylee, she is extremely scummy in a vacuum. Her behavior since being cased by me is largely the same as before, with some minor adjustments.

 

But I do feel that this is not her town game, and my interpretation of Csarmi's intent could be wrong. When I have her even more scum-read because of that old game he cited, he wasn't satisfied with my response and gave me a more recent game, to reflect Kaylee's change toward a more diplomatic and town-finding game.

 

This could have been because he, on his own, was not happy I was finding her even more scummy, or because kaylee knew of her own evolution since that cited game and offered a more recent game where she exhibited the defined behavior.

 

Other than that behavior by Csarmi read a certain way, Kaylee's behavior this game still reads scummy a lot, and if it's not read that way, it's really easy to see what Pralaya is saying about her.

 

I don't think they're w/w and they're both in the POE. The key is lynching a wolf today, because that moves people OUT of the POE.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Why I pushed Pralaya today was largely to clear Nolder if Pralaya is scum, for much the same reason.

 

Scums have been willing to go along with this, clearly. Probably because it is wrong.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Cass, you're up. Vote movement, frand.

[Cass]

Vote: Kaylee

 

Csarmi might not have been feeding me fuel, he might have been trying to persuade me off of Kaylee actually.

 

Kaylee's position on Csarmi could be distancing and bussing.

 

Explain the bold for me? In the Csarmi ISO what I gathered was he was agreeing with you, how is this 'persuading you off Kaylee'?

 

I'm still not fully across that period of the game (p.50-70ish?). 

 

I think I mentioned this conclusion earlier though. My thoughts were if they're WW both of them had everything to gain from bussing at a point where it was likely Kaylee was gaining traction and there was at least my vote and some suspicion surrounding him. At the time I also felt like Kay might be scum using the bus to buddy me.

 

At one point she claimed to be removing tinfoil from her read of me, this phase she put me straight back into contention as possible deep wolf, following Pral's suggestion I was the most likely to have bussed. Feels convenient.

 

 

 

 

Pral: your points against me are stronger for D1. What I mean is that my reads strong and I was very wishy washy. Since D2 started however, I've made solid reads considering the info we gained. I've made points/arguments why I have my reads where they are. Having me as one of your top scum reads for liking posts is weak at this point in the game. I could see if I hadn't put in any work but I have.

Uh? That doesn't mean anything. Just because you are scum doesn't mean that you will just pocket somebody and do nothing. Of course there will be other things also - casing, nudging etc etc. It is the small things to notice.

 

Incidentally, most of your "I like this" posts are usually for points against an easy lynch candidate. INitially it was Lenlo, where Pizza made a case against him. When he came out as cop, your posts were focused on Celeste and me.

 

It is when seen as a whole that my points make sense. Again., context matters heavily. It is not a "Oh, she likes posts and hence scum" kind of thing.

 

Actually, the above replies have kind of convinced me she is scum. This is not going to happen but it is here for others to see after they know my flip

[v]Kaylee[/v]

 

 

This reads like a villager replying to someone he actually believes is scum.

 

 

That doesn't mean that Kaylee's scum though. And IMO it's not enough to make Pral clear.

 

Kaylee's initial reply seems weak/generic to me but I can see her posting that as Town, vaguely remember something similar from HoC. 

 

Pral's post is more aggressive/convinced in tone than anything else I've seen of his, which fits the vote but could equally be scum aiming for a mislynch he thinks might actually gain traction.

 

 

Why Kaylee over Nolder?

[Cass]

Gimme a sec, trying to digest your other posts.

 

I don't understand the links you're making between clearing others :/

[Askthepizzaguy]

Cass, are you persuade-able?

 

If I give you clear reasons will you follow me? I just want to know if I'm talking to an ally, or someone who will stall my bill in committee.

 

Time is ticking so I don't want to expend too much energy on this if you won't budge. So just a heads up if you will move if the reasons are clear enough, would be helpful.

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

Vote: Kaylee

 

Csarmi might not have been feeding me fuel, he might have been trying to persuade me off of Kaylee actually.

 

Kaylee's position on Csarmi could be distancing and bussing.

 

Explain the bold for me? In the Csarmi ISO what I gathered was he was agreeing with you, how is this 'persuading you off Kaylee'?

 

I'm still not fully across that period of the game (p.50-70ish?). 

 

I think I mentioned this conclusion earlier though. My thoughts were if they're WW both of them had everything to gain from bussing at a point where it was likely Kaylee was gaining traction and there was at least my vote and some suspicion surrounding him. At the time I also felt like Kay might be scum using the bus to buddy me.

 

At one point she claimed to be removing tinfoil from her read of me, this phase she put me straight back into contention as possible deep wolf, following Pral's suggestion I was the most likely to have bussed. Feels convenient.

 

 

 

 

Pral: your points against me are stronger for D1. What I mean is that my reads strong and I was very wishy washy. Since D2 started however, I've made solid reads considering the info we gained. I've made points/arguments why I have my reads where they are. Having me as one of your top scum reads for liking posts is weak at this point in the game. I could see if I hadn't put in any work but I have.

Uh? That doesn't mean anything. Just because you are scum doesn't mean that you will just pocket somebody and do nothing. Of course there will be other things also - casing, nudging etc etc. It is the small things to notice.

 

Incidentally, most of your "I like this" posts are usually for points against an easy lynch candidate. INitially it was Lenlo, where Pizza made a case against him. When he came out as cop, your posts were focused on Celeste and me.

 

It is when seen as a whole that my points make sense. Again., context matters heavily. It is not a "Oh, she likes posts and hence scum" kind of thing.

 

Actually, the above replies have kind of convinced me she is scum. This is not going to happen but it is here for others to see after they know my flip

[v]Kaylee[/v]

 

 

This reads like a villager replying to someone he actually believes is scum.

 

 

That doesn't mean that Kaylee's scum though. And IMO it's not enough to make Pral clear.

 

Kaylee's initial reply seems weak/generic to me but I can see her posting that as Town, vaguely remember something similar from HoC. 

 

Pral's post is more aggressive/convinced in tone than anything else I've seen of his, which fits the vote but could equally be scum aiming for a mislynch he thinks might actually gain traction.

 

 

Why Kaylee over Nolder?

 

 

1st blue:

 

Ok, keeping it real simple, and I'll elaborate more, a lot more, if you want>

 

Originally, Csarmi's behavior looked to me like TMI- basically, someone who knows Kaylee is a townie, and wants the points for it. I explained his quick dismissal of Kaylee as a suspect followed by him feeding me links was an attempt to be on the right side of history, while adding fuel to the fire.

 

But, there's a problem with that idea: He already made his political position on Kaylee clear, and when he gave evidence of her recent scum and town games and I only looked at the town game, and judged that one (a very old one) to be why she was scum here, he wasn't satisfied and tried to persuade me with a much more recent game.

 

What's the motive for the last part?

 

At that point he's already on the right side of history, and wagons elsewhere are stalling badly.

 

What's his motive for preventing a mislynch on Kaylee then?

 

He should just go, okay Pizza, I see your points. Maybe I'm wrong. But I still think we should go here.

 

That's so easy. Why is he still fighting me?

[Askthepizzaguy]

At that point, he's finding evidence which supports his idea, not mine. Because he doesn't like the conclusion I'm drawing.

[Askthepizzaguy]

At that point, momentum on Kaylee stalls- none of the scums want to lynch her.

 

But, to make Kaylee look good, Csarmi dies that round.

 

Kaylee is your deep wolf.

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

Vote: Kaylee

 

Csarmi might not have been feeding me fuel, he might have been trying to persuade me off of Kaylee actually.

 

Kaylee's position on Csarmi could be distancing and bussing.

 

Explain the bold for me? In the Csarmi ISO what I gathered was he was agreeing with you, how is this 'persuading you off Kaylee'?

 

I'm still not fully across that period of the game (p.50-70ish?). 

 

I think I mentioned this conclusion earlier though. My thoughts were if they're WW both of them had everything to gain from bussing at a point where it was likely Kaylee was gaining traction and there was at least my vote and some suspicion surrounding him. At the time I also felt like Kay might be scum using the bus to buddy me.

 

At one point she claimed to be removing tinfoil from her read of me, this phase she put me straight back into contention as possible deep wolf, following Pral's suggestion I was the most likely to have bussed. Feels convenient.

 

 

 

 

Pral: your points against me are stronger for D1. What I mean is that my reads strong and I was very wishy washy. Since D2 started however, I've made solid reads considering the info we gained. I've made points/arguments why I have my reads where they are. Having me as one of your top scum reads for liking posts is weak at this point in the game. I could see if I hadn't put in any work but I have.

Uh? That doesn't mean anything. Just because you are scum doesn't mean that you will just pocket somebody and do nothing. Of course there will be other things also - casing, nudging etc etc. It is the small things to notice.

 

Incidentally, most of your "I like this" posts are usually for points against an easy lynch candidate. INitially it was Lenlo, where Pizza made a case against him. When he came out as cop, your posts were focused on Celeste and me.

 

It is when seen as a whole that my points make sense. Again., context matters heavily. It is not a "Oh, she likes posts and hence scum" kind of thing.

 

Actually, the above replies have kind of convinced me she is scum. This is not going to happen but it is here for others to see after they know my flip

[v]Kaylee[/v]

 

 

This reads like a villager replying to someone he actually believes is scum.

 

 

That doesn't mean that Kaylee's scum though. And IMO it's not enough to make Pral clear.

 

Kaylee's initial reply seems weak/generic to me but I can see her posting that as Town, vaguely remember something similar from HoC. 

 

Pral's post is more aggressive/convinced in tone than anything else I've seen of his, which fits the vote but could equally be scum aiming for a mislynch he thinks might actually gain traction.

 

 

Why Kaylee over Nolder?

 

 

2nd Blue:

 

Let's resolve her, she has deep wolf potential, Pralaya does not. Pralaya has nothing going for him at all this game if Kaylee is town. He will die. I'll shoot him.

 

3rd Blue:

 

No, the post alone is not enough.

 

Pralaya remains in the POE if Kaylee is town.

 

But if Kaylee is scum, that's 3 dead scums and Pralaya looks like a boss.

 

We're re-arranging the POE, we're not allowing pralaya to get away if this is a wrong move.

 

Kaylee is scummy, and the reasons we're using to allow her to continue to live are shaky, and she won't be resolved in the POE soon.