[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[Lenlo]

Vote: Lenlo

 

Lenlo, tell me why I am voting for you. Explain what you did this game which would lead people to believe that you are the mafia godfather or roleblocker.

Let's see... get cleared early for tone, then do little actual work. Stay in thread to get attention while throwing out tidbits. If I was godfather the plan would be to get viewed and cleared early on.

 

Just so we don't waste this time I'll follow Turins lead. I'm the Cop. D2 town PR reveal ftw.

[wish-tree]

Well first of all let's start at the beginning because if you don't have a good foundation the whole thing falls apart anyway.

This is all based on the assumption that Csarmi and Xander are wolves together.

I'm not necessarily opposed to that idea since I don't have Xander in my town pile yet and a couple people were saying he's off his town meta but I'd still like to see you make the case for Xander and Csarmi being connected before I take the rest of that too seriously. 

 

If I can't buy that Xander/Csarmi are w/w the rest of it doesn't matter you know?

Well, apparently the vig bought that Zander/csarmi are w/w. 

 

What's the rest?

 

 

 

 

 

 

4. Lenlo

 

 

 

Csarmi (7) Cass Wish Kaylee Alanna Lenlo Zander Pizza

 

*note: I changed Kaylee to a light green to reflect doubt

Links to other analyses: Cass, Wish, Kaylee, Alanna

 

Lenlo on Csarmi:

First mention is in a reads list "Grey/light red, do something. Might vote you for the heck of it."

 

Reaction to his claim "Why... Why are we claiming."

 

More doubts on the claim "Full claim or dont claim at all. Character claims mean nothing."

 

This one is in response to Wish saying Csarmi is getting lynched: "Is he now? And when was this decided?" The reaction here is kind of weird. At this point Cass and Pizza are on the Csarmi train (I think I have that right) and Wish is going back and looking at Kaylee evidence while Pizza is switching things over to Csarmi pretty quickly.

 

Doesn't think Csarmi is lying about his character, and if he is "there's no way he lives through the game. I don't think he's lying"

 

I find it odd that Lenlo neither mentions nor jumps on the Kaylee case, nor the Csarmi case. He does mediate a little with the Pizza/Zander fight but that's all I see so far. He questions why Cass isn't around.

 

Then this: 

"Pizza/Zander fight is stupid. Honestly, the only people who I /want/ to lynch today are Celeste and the missing wonder brothers, Pral and Csarmi. Everyone else has been pretty good or I think will be figured out easier later.

Really ill lynch anyone that isnt Pizza, Zander, Nolder, Shad, Turin."

Throws shade at Zander for his habit of bussing teammates (that would be Pizza in this case). (Note: Zander/Pizza fight distraction?)

 

This: "For me its Csarmi/Zander today, leaning Csarmi." and a VOTE

 

He is quick to get in on the town core talk with Pizza Shad Nolder, still thinks Zander is town though.

 

Very much wants to lynch Celeste

 

But he is sticking around for the Csarmi lynch; wolves don't want to wait around for a flip of their teammate. And I don't see him trying to gain traction elsewhere. He didn't add flames to the Pizza/Zander fight.

 

Csarmi on Lenlo:

"Also Len/Laine are literally never w/w there."

"Think I'm at Shad and Cass as villagers, Pizza and Leno as possible villagers."

"Vanilla Town And yea Len we have been through this before. I shall humour you." (expanding on his claim)

"Dont lynch Shad, Cass and Len ever. I believe Turin."

"Cass i am totally sure of. Len/Shad very close."

"Leno I just love you man."

 

Anddd that's it

 

Conclusion: Pending.

I can see this both ways right now. And I already have a strong read so I'll explain the "Lenlo is mafia" side.

 

The first mention in his reads list could be he's frustrated with a teammate and has to suspect him because he's not being active enough on thread. The other posts about Csarmi claiming: frustration/confusion again.

 

Then the post where he said "Is he now? And when was this decided?" shows Lenlo is completely out of the loop. He hasn't paid attention to the Kaylee case, didn't get involved with Pizza's case on Csarmi, isn't involved in the thread with like under 20 hours until deadline. He doesn't know what's going on, basically.

 

In talks about Csarmi's character, he believes him and says that if he's lying, it'll be taken care of basically. Easy way to add support to a character claim and give it credit, even though we all know mafia are generally given fake claims. (I also know nothing about WoW so yeah.. I'm here to play mafia lol)

 

He still shows interest in voting Celeste, mentioning lynching her twice instead of Csarmi while his train is gaining traction, but doesn't make any move to switch the trains over (granted, this is more of a townie move, he's looking elsewhere).

 

On the other side of the road, Csarmi is quick to read Lenlo and call him town and tells us never to lynch him. This could be for a scum mate or for town.

 

If we're going with Lenlo being town though, this could make sense all the same. Lenlo would still be frustrated with Csarmi for not being in the game (Nolderesque?) and frustrated with the claim. You could read the "Is he now? And when was this decided?" as surprise becasue he's literally not caught up in the thread at the moment. He does NOT actively try to derail the lynch onto Celeste or Zander or Kaylee or anyone and ends up voting Csarmi. Looks good responding with a quick town core to Pizza's question and then sticking around to see the flip.

 

I could go either way with Lenlo right now, so I'm going to move him down to a light green.

 

 

 

Really interesting. Especially with interactions irt csarmi's claim. The reaction to not being caught up in thread as I mentioned yesterday was off-putting. 

The fluffing/buddying attention that he receives from csarmi is also similar to the Zander/csarmi interaction.

 

It's also pretty bad for him to not actively advocate for a different lynch, and in the end just sheeps Pizza (posted that Pizza should make the decision). He did not go after his strongest lynch candidates yesterday, but instead resolves onto a consensus vote with little reasons given.

 

So couple things.

 

1) Why is the bold bad? First id been pushing Celeste all day, second we lynched scum. Wouldnt it be bad for me to actively try and push a different lynch than the scum one we got?

2) I did go after my strongest lynch candidates yesterday. I was for Celeste literally the entire day. If Celeste started to get traction id have been there in a heartbeat.

3) Pretty sure I never said ""there's no way he lives through the game. I don't think he's lying" in regards to Csarmi. Said it about Turin, yeah, but not Csarmi.

 

1) I think that the bold looks bad because you gained townie credit for being on a scum-lynching wagon, without even making much of a case for lynching the scum (if this is the case, please correct me). Townies don't really care about image (at least from my experience), so if you really thought Celeste was scum, and csarmi was less likely to be scum (I don't even remember you mentioning this bit, either), you should have gone for your scummiest read.

2) But why were you on csarmi? And why did you want Pizza to make the final decision?

3) I don't think I said that you said this, either. If you're talking about the blue part that I highlighted, that was me making a comment about how the thread dynamics changed after csarmi's claim. I found your 'oh, we're lynching csarmi today? When was this decided' comment very off-putting. I think that's all I said.

 

Which I get Wish.

 

I'm also waiting to hear from Leno.

 

Can't look into Zander until later when I have more time to sit for awhile.

Okay, got it!

 

 

Pizza please help me out cause going back and quoting stuff is a pain.  Why did you back off of Kay again?  Was it only because the general Town consensus was Town reading her?

 

In a world where Kaylee was guilty, the case I plopped down on her was devastating. Some people disagreed with it, but the in-thread evidence was damning and the two cited example games of hers which were villager just added to the case, and her own words in the thread were really self-incriminating.

 

So if she's a wolf, it's time to bus, or pretend you didn't see the case.

 

Defending her, or actively opposing her lynch, or pushing other people hard, it's difficult for the wolves to ignore such a case made on one of their own.

 

If a bunch of villagers jump on that lynch and the wolves don't do so, then they are out in the cold. When it's clear that Kaylee is not going to be the deep wolf, the decision has to be made to defend, bus, or ignore.

 

IMO, if she were guilty, at the very, very least, the wolves would have said the case was compelling.

 

But some people who were not in my blue or green were dismissing it. Csarmi in particular without ever considering it. (a) before I made the case, (b) while giving me links, and © afterward. He just justified it as "that's not how I read people."

 

That's ridiculously incriminating for Csarmi if Kaylee were guilty.

 

I made the decision at that point that as well researched and effort-put-into that case was, it was likely to be incorrect.

 

I also made the decision that if it were correct, the case itself would be enough to destroy her late-game.

 

I pushed her up in my process of elimination based on the reaction to the case, not because Kaylee exonerated herself personally.

 

She was NOT consensus town, in fact, some folks were considering the case.

 

But enough people were backing off that, it's kind of like someone trying to sneak away from the scene of a bombing that was about to happen. You kind of get the feeling that something bad is about to happen and they don't want to be anywhere near it, and they knew in advance that it was a good idea to be nowhere near the scene of the disaster.

 

That's the principle. It's actually basic human behavior, very simple to understand, but I doubt very many players use this kind of read to guide their voting.

 

I even said at one point, I wanted to lynch one of the people who said Kaylee was innocent. That was the first thought I had after I read the amalgam of responses to my case on her.

 

Of those people, Csarmi seemed the worst by far, because of his specific behavior.

 

And I made that decision rather rapidly and began pushing it then.

 

That's how it all went down.

 

Saving this underlined bit. The bold bit is also compelling.

 

 

 

 

 

Leno: what are your thoughts on the case Alanna did on you?

It's alright, but it has holes and I'm pretty sure she's attributing the wrong posts to the wrong people/topics.

If she is show where please. This goes towards helping clear you.

I already pointed out parts of it when responding to Wish. One of her points about saying I believed Csarmi's claim, I think she misattributed. I believe I said that to Turin/about Turins claim, not Csarmis.

 

Answered above.

 

 

 

Pizza please help me out cause going back and quoting stuff is a pain.  Why did you back off of Kay again?  Was it only because the general Town consensus was Town reading her?

 

In a world where Kaylee was guilty, the case I plopped down on her was devastating. Some people disagreed with it, but the in-thread evidence was damning and the two cited example games of hers which were villager just added to the case, and her own words in the thread were really self-incriminating.

 

So if she's a wolf, it's time to bus, or pretend you didn't see the case.

 

Defending her, or actively opposing her lynch, or pushing other people hard, it's difficult for the wolves to ignore such a case made on one of their own.

 

If a bunch of villagers jump on that lynch and the wolves don't do so, then they are out in the cold. When it's clear that Kaylee is not going to be the deep wolf, the decision has to be made to defend, bus, or ignore.

 

IMO, if she were guilty, at the very, very least, the wolves would have said the case was compelling.

 

But some people who were not in my blue or green were dismissing it. Csarmi in particular without ever considering it. (a) before I made the case, (b) while giving me links, and © afterward. He just justified it as "that's not how I read people."

 

That's ridiculously incriminating for Csarmi if Kaylee were guilty.

 

I made the decision at that point that as well researched and effort-put-into that case was, it was likely to be incorrect.

 

I also made the decision that if it were correct, the case itself would be enough to destroy her late-game.

 

I pushed her up in my process of elimination based on the reaction to the case, not because Kaylee exonerated herself personally.

 

She was NOT consensus town, in fact, some folks were considering the case.

 

But enough people were backing off that, it's kind of like someone trying to sneak away from the scene of a bombing that was about to happen. You kind of get the feeling that something bad is about to happen and they don't want to be anywhere near it, and they knew in advance that it was a good idea to be nowhere near the scene of the disaster.

 

That's the principle. It's actually basic human behavior, very simple to understand, but I doubt very many players use this kind of read to guide their voting.

 

I even said at one point, I wanted to lynch one of the people who said Kaylee was innocent. That was the first thought I had after I read the amalgam of responses to my case on her.

 

Of those people, Csarmi seemed the worst by far, because of his specific behavior.

 

And I made that decision rather rapidly and began pushing it then.

 

That's how it all went down.

 

Not putting it in my notes but I like this post.

You're not changing your mind about what you saw but rather you seem to realize that for whatever reason it's townkaylee that's doing it. 

 

Doesn't change how I feel about you but maybe if you keep this up I'll get confused and torn lol.

 

 

Nolder, what do you read Kaylee as atm? What about Pizza? What about Cass? Lenlo? Pralaya?

[wish-tree]

Pizza stuff:

 

 

Nolder, please examine Zander's progression on Csarmi.

 

This is a behavior I spotted before on a GITP game, between Fleeing Coward and Banjo.

 

IMO Zander was never prioritizing Csarmi (it's fine by itself, not a lot of people were)

 

But, he did keep making references to Csarmi being worthy of a vote anyway, such as post better you're not 5, use real words, policy lynch you, these are from the same post but essentially what I'm saying is that he's left little distancing attempts between himself and Csarmi, such that if he ever has to bus Csarmi it will look legit.

 

But, it's not really legit imo.

 

He's putting those little crumbs there to indicate his opposition to Csarmi for distancing purposes, but it looks like a policy decision he decided on off-thread.

 

Next, when Csarmi is in the thread later on, he makes a post or two distancing a little more, but still no real push.

 

After it starts to look bad on Csarmi is when he quotes a bunch of Csarmi posts and completes the distancing action.

 

It has all the classic signs of soft-distancing which is low risk, then soft-bussing, rather than hard bussing which is what he usually does.

 

If I die tonight I want someone to carry my banner on the matter.

 

If I survive, I'll re-examine him.

This bold stuff is gold. I think Zander may be evolving, or at least as you said, it might have been coordinated out of thread.

 

 

we still have time left before dl

 

i wanna look at Csarmi and those who are voting him to see if they were sussing him beforehand

 

vote count please.

 

Foreknowledge of Csarmi's flip.
 

 

Yup.

 

 

 

Cass stuff:

 

 

Sorry got interrupted by visitors.

 

Still not caught up but

 

Hey Cass now that it's out in the open, what do you think of my thinking you're mafia?

Am I insane? Are you just making mistakes? What's going on here? What would you do for a klondike bar?

 

I am 100% Town and you're probably not insane.

 

I'm struggling but I'm getting to it.

 

What do you need to know?

I like this response from Cass. My thoughts are a little out of order, but read this response in reference to my below Cass comment.

 

 

Random Shad fluff that got caught in the middle of the Cass stuff:

 

 

 

 

 

 

The cat gif that I posted makes me really uncomfortable. I want to catch the kitty.

Declawing a cat is pretty mean. It's like cutting off someone's fingers. :\

 

 this is horrible
 
I literally de-friend anyone that says declawing is a good thing.

 

I'm pretty sure I never mentioned declawing..  :(

 

The cat would have caught itself otherwise. 

 

Lol XD

 

 

 

 

Like Cass's assessment of my interactions with Penny, but I've seen the same whole-hearted defense from Laine. I also do wonder why Laine doesn't doubt me, but again, that's some tinfoiling. Cass is more likely the deep wolf out of the too. But she is still a light green. 

 

Would like to hear more from Pralaya, Nolder, and Lenlo. Pralaya, especially, who for the majority of the time has been skating by and posting little.

 

Stuff in spoiler also includes Penny stuff:

 

 

 

 

 

Csarmi (7) Cass Wish Kaylee Alanna Lenlo Zander Pizza

 

Wish:
Mentions Csarmi and Pral are back in thread. In her next reads list says Csarmi "pretty much null and all fluff"
Complains about the inactives, mentioning Csarmi, says out of Pral, CS, and Nolder that Nolder looks the best and Csarmi is in her list of lynch candidates with Pral, Lenlo, Nolder, Kaylee. Her next reads list has Csarmi at the bottom of the list. This is still before Pizza's case and switch which was on page 83. Mentions that she wants Csarmi to show up and play, he's still in her WTL. "I'd like to give Kaylee and Csarmi more time" This is after the Cass vote. She actually follows this up with voting Pral. Here she asks Cass for more information on Csarmi which Cass responded to, you can see it linked in Cass's Csarmi ISO. She does like that Csarmi is making an effort to catch up.

Here she starts digging into Kaylee and actually takes a swipe at him

There's a lot of mentions of Csarmi on this next page, but this is post Kaylee case and Wish is digging into Kaylee's games to see if Pizza's case has merit. I'll c/p some comments, but it's all there in her ISO, as well on page 7:
   "I'm less willing to lynch Kaylee still want a csarmi, Pralaya, Nolder lynch. Nolder is putting in more work than either Pralaya/csarmi, so take it in csarmi>Pralaya>Nolder order."
   "So you think he [csarmi] set her [kaylee] up? Read her as town and then proceeded to give you info to condemn her because of her change of meta?"
   "His claiming and then leaving is also not a good look."
   "Don't think the timing is weird. Shad did ask him to claim. And iirc, thread kinda pressured him to full-claim. Agree with Pizza's point on csarmi setting Kaylee up"

Anddd she just keeps pushing for his lynch so I'm not going to quote everything. Her vote here

 

UH, LAINEY
 
HELP
 
My dark green is fighting with another one of my light greens
 
I want to vote csarmi, but I'm really tempted to vote Zander because he has been tunneling me all game, even though I found his other behavior townie.
 
what are your thoughts?

This is 100% Lenny, there's no way she's mafia.

Link!!! She doesn't try to push onto Zander even with Pizza going at him on thread. This was a perfect opportunity and she didn't take it.

Csarmi on Wish:
".and yes. Penny. Lenny. Zanny."
"I cant tell Wish and Cel3ste apart."

And that's it. He responds to Wish asking about Csarmi setting Kaylee up but that was mainly in response to Pizza. No mentions of Wish's alignment whatsoever.

 

Conclusion: Wish is town. No doubts.

 

LaineGOAT. Pretty close to putting both these girls into town core and locking them clear  

 

I can't agree more with Laine on that post sounding just like Lenny and I want this Lenny to be Town.  

 

Her not pushing Zander is a good look - unless Zander flips scum and then I'll have to fight some tinfoil, but other than that I think I'm ready to let it go.

 

 

Hello!

 

I'm going to post Kaylee notes from the games that csarmi has linked. 

 

A tl;dr before: Pizza may be right. 

 

In terms of who I'd like to see more content from: csarmi and Pralaya. 

 

csarmi, stop being helpful to other people and do your own work.

 

Pralaya, appreciate the catch up, but interact with people in thread as well.

 

 

 

This snipe is also classic Lenny. She's blunt and matter of fact and hunting Csarmi/Pral and there's nothing else to it. I don't feel like she has a hidden agenda, and those two were/are also my top two scum. 

 

I've found myself agreeing with way too much of her thought process this game for me to call her wolf. I haven't ISO'd her but what I have read of her in the thread gives me the impression that she's working hard to hunt and to be up front and honest. I feel like ScumLenny hunts but doesn't necessarily work as hard to explain where her head is at. This is just a guess btw, I've never seen her scum.

 

I'm willing to trust her read of Penny because I know she is that good and I had the exact same impression at the same time early on D1 until Penny reacted badly under pressure, which I've never seen. Their interaction may seem strange to outsiders, but I've seen enough Lenny-Penny conversations outside of mafia which are just as strange - they talk in half sentences and just get each other in real life. They've also played a lot of mafia together and I don't doubt that they'd have a good handle on each other this game as Town. Either they're both scum (seems unlikely), or until I ISO and something glaring other than this relationship stands out, Wish is Town for me.

 

As for the underlined part, I can link you to some Penny games in which she 1) thought she was going to be lynched because of one vote 2) self-voted out of frustration 3) had a hissy/mad fit because other people voted her 4) and was town all along. 

 

As for the bolded part, yes, it's pretty much true. She can read me well sometimes when we're v/v. She always has me caught by the end of D1 if I'm a wolf, and she's a villager, and she busses/distances epically, so we can't be w/w either.

 

 

 

 

I read you town on approach and stress level Cass. I think you wolfing while Cory h3lping you would be hard. Not finding the right words sorry. You would wanna prove more and be somewhat froz3n? Is that the right wording?

I think this is Csarmi trying to shade cass. Looking into his post at the moment.

 

 

 

Actually I will finish looking at Csarmi's ISO when I wake up.

 

 

 

Celeste, how do you feel about wish aorn?

I should be asleep now but one last post  

 

The way she analyzed and never actually stopped scum hunting while defending herself is very town like for Wish. I feel even better than before about my read on her.

 

 

These three posts made me go:

                     

 

Which is honestly how I've been feeling about Penny since her early reaction. I still think she's Town. I'm hoping she's Town on the right track, because then it cements that we're learning how to read each other, and I like the idea that someone can effectively read me Town.

 

But then I wonder. Chance that she's buddying me. 

 

I haven't ISO'd her either and without being 100% across the game/actually knowing her better, I'm not willing to say she's not a wolf. But my first impression of her was that she was Town, playing the same as the last game we recently finished. 

 

I've tinfoiled on Penny before for coming across randomly when Town and it ended really bad (both of us dead early). I'm not going to push her much here for little inconsistencies that may be a misunderstanding. She's a good player who gets herself into trouble as Town ( :P ). If anyone's going to nail a Scum Penny here, it's Lenny. I'm going to continue to sheep her read while there are others lower in the PoE.

 

 

This was a good question by Shad.

 

The answer from Celeste is easily Penny Town from what I've seen. It reads direct and honest.

 

I want to ISO and see how much PennyCeleste has been defending/agreeing with WishLenny throughout the game off her own bat.

 

I'd be interested in Lenny's take on Penny's response and overall play to see if there's a chance it comes from Penny scum.

 

@Lenny - what do you think?

 

 

Celeste's answer to Shad's question also reads the same way to me. Honest, open, and direct, like her beginnings to the thread. I admit that I've doubted my read because of tinfoil about the Lenny/Penny/Zanny thing, but that's the only reason why I've wavered. Her tone is super towny, and now that she has time, she is starting to increase her activity. Penny (Celeste) is a late game player, and flourishes later on, after her initial misgivings/bad reads are out of the way. I'm starting to see this here.

 

She could be deeply pocketing me, but that's highly unlikely, because I recently finished a game with her in which she was scum and I was survivor. I had her nailed from D1. 

 

 

[wish-tree]

Laine/Zander exchange looking good for Lainey, again:

 

 

Im pretty sure I do tho....just gotta find Lenny's partner!!!!

 

 

Lenny isn't scum. Try again.

 

 

 

Lenny isn't scum. Try again.

 

 

 

 

He persists in scum reading me to the last moment. Seems like he's covering up for someone else, eh?

 

Lenlo/Zander stuff. Not particularly looking good.

 

 

 

 

Posting as I go:
 
up to p8, a lot of fluff--the obligatory declaring himself town and lock clearing Laine--asks Cass about her scum game and asks people for meta on her, doesn't like that she didn't specify her mild concerns with Zander and Laine.  Null

#159 -- Cass had explained what was bothering her, Z asks why she thinks he feels forced and gets confused, thinks Cass is talking to him instead of Laine regarding a previous game.
 

 

 

 

OFC YOU CAN USE THE LOLOLOLOLOLOL

ALSO TELL CORY I LOVE HIM!!!!!!


     

I've never played with you/seen you Town, but I'd expect you to just LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! (or at least Lol first)
No need to tell him, he's reading along :P

Cass I have no Meta on you...is joke votes normal for you? How do you play? What are your scum tells??? Or is it just straight Rand.Org has forever branded you a Wolf??!!!

lmklmklmk

- Joke votes are not normal for me except if I feel relatively comfortable with someone both inside and outside the game.
- Dice and Penny are probably the only players I would jokevote at this stage of my career.
- Voting is not something I do lightly in any case (to this point). I don't like being wrong. I'm think I'm learning the advantages of throwing votes around, but it's not something I easily/naturally want to do when there's a game to win!!

I play... differently to this? More carefully/sensored? Usually. As either alignment. But I'm hyper! (winding down) and trying not to take the game so seriously, trying to be more me than a player, if that makes sense? Blame Chris/Cory if I don't make sense. They encouraged the unleashing of #FullCass! :D :D

 

 

 

good morning 

Morning Turin havent played with you in a long time or really much at all for that matter looking forward to it man!!!!

 

it has been a while. let's lunch some wolves.

 

Lets do this brother!!!

 

#Gutread awkward

Turin have you played with Cass??

Like do you have any Meta on her?

Im a pretty heavy Meta reliant player so I need some info on her.

#Gutread more awkward because bold reads forced/unnecessary

Z, I think I played once or twice with her in the game. I don't recall a lot about her but I think she is a more analytical player. I recall dice always having to tell her to go to sleep.

For me, I'm Turin and I like lazy Sunday mornings in bed, medium sized walks in the park and living here in the shire.

I'm town. Like always.

I can be analytical when I put my mind to it. I like sifting through stuff and finding nitty-gritty inconsistencies. That goes for play in either alignment.
I've tried to sleep more the last couple of games. I think you're more likely to understand me correctly this game if you think like Dice and just question if I seem like me.


TLDR I'm wary, but I doubt I'm voting you today Zan, because I want fun :D If you're Town and we figure each other out this game will #FULLTWINENFPFTW!

 

How serious, if at all are you with the lolololololol part??? And also I always need to tell Cory i love him ldo!!!!! lollololololol

Thanks for the Meta info, I look forward to hearing others weigh in on it!!! and I cant wait to see #FULLCASS....i picture something like this....






It seems like you've already come in with the preconceived notion of reading me scummy and that's not a good look my dear...Like each of my interactions youve felt off about, I mean I get that people Ive never played with before may sense that but its just that all youre using is Forced and Awkward....and like 6 pages in, that seems very weird, but then I'm also weighing in the ENFP so Im kinda meh with this, but something Im noticing fwiw.

Why would you think my Meta talk is forced or unnecessary, especially sense theres a bunch of players I havent played with much or at all and the fact that everyone who has played with me will tell you IM EXACTLY a Meta reliant player???!!!!


Well I want to make sure we figure each other out because so far it feels a little off putting to me my dear!!!!

 

Kind of weird, Zander's calling Cass scum pretty early out the gate because she said a few of his statements felt forced or awkward? It's kind of OMGUSy.

 

Agreed with the underlined part.

 

 

 

So afew things to say in regards to my vote.

3 people, Pizza I believe, Celeste and Wish-Tree, ignored it completely.

1 Person, Laine, acknowledged it but didnt question it. Just said they didnt hate it.

2 people, Zander and Kaylee, saw my vote and asked for reasons before backing off when I said I would give them later.

I expected Celeste to ignore it. I expected Zander to question it. I didnt expect Pizza to not lambaste me or question me over it. Didnt expect WishTree to ignore it. Dont know how I feel about Laine saying she doesnt hate it, basically endorsing it, when I havnt explained it at all.

So im assuming the point of the vote was others reactions to it? What did you garner from each persons reaction to it?

I had hoped people would care more, but apparently when silent voting for reactions it needs to be on someone with more than 0 votes at that time. Live and learn.

 

I was going to address it, and I did later, but I wasn't in the thread at the time. 

 

 

 

 

 

So afew things to say in regards to my vote.

3 people, Pizza I believe, Celeste and Wish-Tree, ignored it completely.

1 Person, Laine, acknowledged it but didnt question it. Just said they didnt hate it.

2 people, Zander and Kaylee, saw my vote and asked for reasons before backing off when I said I would give them later.

I expected Celeste to ignore it. I expected Zander to question it. I didnt expect Pizza to not lambaste me or question me over it. Didnt expect WishTree to ignore it. Dont know how I feel about Laine saying she doesnt hate it, basically endorsing it, when I havnt explained it at all.

Wish's last post was on p20 unless ISO is being glitchy. You voted on p24. Why include her here?

Was it? I thought I saw her post since then... Remove her then. My B.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm..............

like if it wasnt Wish I prolly just keep going and not bother with this post.

Why is wish special? You people call her Lenny all the time, mixed with this penny crap, it confuses me.

 

Underlined bit: howlings of a dead wolf, trying to link me and Lenlo together.

 

In response to Lenlo:

Lol...

I'm Lenny.

Celeste is Penny.

We didn't rhyme on purpose. I promise.

 

 

 

 

 

Have you commented on what bothers you about Pral?

 

You've been pretty low on my radar so I don't remember.

I don't think so. It basically comes down to PoE and the impression that he didn't actually achieve much when he entered the thread. I haven't ISO'd him yet though.

 

 

Lenny isn't scum. Try again.

Laine, is this based as much on game as gut? Gut agrees with you but... yeah.

 

Could you explain the underlined part to me?

 

#51 -- asks me to follow up on my early post by explaining my thoughts on Lenlo's and his own meta.

#53 -- Has no meta on Cass, asks her what her scum tells are.

#57 -- Asks Turin if he has any meta on Cass, says he's a meta-reliant player and needs info on her.

#58 -- Wants Turin to provide meta on himself, likes it when players describe themselves.

#164 -- Thinks Cass is suspect but has to weigh that against her being ENFP, doesn't like that she finds his meta talk awkward--"everyone who has played with me will tell you IM EXACTLY a Meta reliant player???!!!!"

#168 -- more talk on personality types, says Cass is ENFP

#174 -- won't read Pizza's (out-of-game) meta explanation until post-game because he's paranoid

#178 -- amused by my explanation of meta

#275 -- Thinks Cass is showing signs of ENFP paranoia and gut pings but isn't sure if she's faking it.

#283 -- Doesn't like that Cass expects Zander to read her on his own when he's a meta-reliant player and has no previous experience with her, says this "really really pings" him.

#285 -- Can't read Csarmi, always finds him scummy.

#300 -- Uneasy about Kaylee because she was deep wolf in Frozen.

#304 -- Doesn't know what to make of Wish because he has no meta on her, defers to Pizza.

#320 -- Thinks Cass's treatment of him is scummy, but acknowledges that it might be a consequence of her having never played with Zander before and being ENFP

#340 -- says he has a good handle on Laine's meta

#373 -- reiterates that Kaylee was deep wolf in Frozen

#378 -- has no meta on Cass and is a "meta/gut read player", needs to figure out whether her suspicion of Zander is a consequence of ENFP paranoia or if she's a wolf. ~~kind of hate that Cass's suspicions are being spun as "paranoia".

#439 -- Isn't interested in looking at old games to better understand players.

#446 -- Has no meta on Celeste, Wish, or Cass, so isn't willing to humor Celeste's meta explanations for reads.  ~~He was explicitly asking for this sort of stuff earlier.

 

I'll keep going, but what I see so far is pretty massive deferment to "I haven't played with/can't read any of these players, you're all going to have to help me by giving me meta" followed by "don't use meta as an excuse, because I haven't played with you before".   Zero interest in meta on the people he chooses to push, yet asks a lot of people for meta and uses it as an excuse to not have firm reads.

 

Town Zander just hunts wolves.  Lynch this scum.
 

 

These underlined contradictions were exactly what I pointed out with my Zander is a hypocrite post...lol. I don't think anyone appreciated it. Maybe if I'd done less yelling, lol. 

side note: Shad deserves his town coreyness (pun intended).

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

Vote: Lenlo

 

Lenlo, tell me why I am voting for you. Explain what you did this game which would lead people to believe that you are the mafia godfather or roleblocker.

Let's see... get cleared early for tone, then do little actual work. Stay in thread to get attention while throwing out tidbits. If I was godfather the plan would be to get viewed and cleared early on.

 

Just so we don't waste this time I'll follow Turins lead. I'm the Cop. D2 town PR reveal ftw.

 

Very interesting.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Cop claim with dead doc always dies, only way this works is if there are 2 wolves remaining and the other one is scannable by cop.

 

Therefore there should not be a cop counterclaim. The cop should remain quiet and scan for the other, scannable wolf.

[wish-tree]

I think people can start sheeping me on my Celeste read because she is putting in the work now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So Lenlo, if you are a wolf you're outed. If you're the cop, you're outed.

 

Time to stop goofing off and do actual work. See how you do that for the rest of the round and I might possibly unvote you.

[Lenlo]

So Lenlo, if you are a wolf you're outed. If you're the cop, you're outed.

 

Time to stop goofing off and do actual work. See how you do that for the rest of the round and I might possibly unvote you.

So your thinking of lynching me regardless huh? I'm gonna draw the NK tonight so that's quite stupid. I also am not nearly motivated enough to read a 155 page game.

[Lenlo]

Reread

[wish-tree]

 

So Lenlo, if you are a wolf you're outed. If you're the cop, you're outed.

 

Time to stop goofing off and do actual work. See how you do that for the rest of the round and I might possibly unvote you.

So your thinking of lynching me regardless huh? I'm gonna draw the NK tonight so that's quite stupid. I also am not nearly motivated enough to read a 155 page game.

 

:/

Lenlo...

was this an actual cop claim? I thought it was a hypothetical situation based off of what Pizza had said.

[Lenlo]

I don't deal in hypotheticals and the truth is I have barely been able to keep up with this game. 140 pages do D1 is to much.

[wish-tree]

I don't deal in hypotheticals and the truth is I have barely been able to keep up with this game. 140 pages do D1 is to much.

if you're the actual cop, can you give us your investigation results?

[Lenlo]

I viewed Zander last night, because EOD had me floating on him. Wanted to confirm that slot.

[wish-tree]

I viewed Zander last night, because EOD had me floating on him. Wanted to confirm that slot.

Lenlo, this does not look good for you, especially because Zander died.

 

Either you're Mafia or the actual cop. I don't think we've gotten anywhere on this. There is no reason for a VT to claim cop, imo.

[wish-tree]

Pizza, thoughts?

[wish-tree]

Also interesting...

 

what's your character name?

 

the only real claim there's been was the doctor.

 

How are we supposed to believe you?

[Lenlo]

 

 

I viewed Zander last night, because EOD had me floating on him. Wanted to confirm that slot.

Lenlo, this does not look good for you, especially because Zander died.

 

Either you're Mafia or the actual cop. I don't think we've gotten anywhere on this. There is no reason for a VT to claim cop, imo.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what it's always been.

 

Here the thing. I do not have the time, energy or will to go back and read 155 pages. I was getting lynched today most likely because Pizza goes ham on people. Least now you have all the info now rather than later.

[Lenlo]

Korialstrasz

 

It's why I was pretty certain of Turins claim.

[wish-tree]

 

 

I viewed Zander last night, because EOD had me floating on him. Wanted to confirm that slot.

Lenlo, this does not look good for you, especially because Zander died.

 

Either you're Mafia or the actual cop. I don't think we've gotten anywhere on this. There is no reason for a VT to claim cop, imo.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what it's always been.

 

Here the thing. I do not have the time, energy or will to go back and read 155 pages. I was getting lynched today most likely because Pizza goes ham on people. Least now you have all the info now rather than later.

 

Can you leave your reads, at least?

[Lenlo]

I have...

[wish-tree]

Korialstrasz

 

It's why I was pretty certain of Turins claim.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Korialstrasz

 

Here's the wiki link, freshly googled.

 

I know nothing about WoW lore, so Shad will have to help out on this. Is this claim legit?

 

The answer to that question determines my vote.

[Pralaya]

 

I viewed Zander last night, because EOD had me floating on him. Wanted to confirm that slot.

Lenlo, this does not look good for you, especially because Zander died.

 

Either you're Mafia or the actual cop. I don't think we've gotten anywhere on this. There is no reason for a VT to claim cop, imo.

 

If there is a Godfather present, then there is no reason for scum Lenlo to claim cop. Why? Because if Lenlo is the Godfather, obviously he wouldn't sacrifice himself. If Lenlo is not the Godfather, then what is the need to out the cop? The cop cannot find the Godfather anyway.

 

The optimal play from scum Lenlo would have been to claim the vig. He didn't. He is likely telling the truth.

[wish-tree]

 

 

I viewed Zander last night, because EOD had me floating on him. Wanted to confirm that slot.

Lenlo, this does not look good for you, especially because Zander died.

 

Either you're Mafia or the actual cop. I don't think we've gotten anywhere on this. There is no reason for a VT to claim cop, imo.

 

If there is a Godfather present, then there is no reason for scum Lenlo to claim cop. Why? Because if Lenlo is the Godfather, obviously he wouldn't sacrifice himself. If Lenlo is not the Godfather, then what is the need to out the cop? The cop cannot find the Godfather anyway.

 

The optimal play from scum Lenlo would have been to claim the vig. He didn't. He is likely telling the truth.

 

Hi, Pralaya.

 

I apppreciate you popping in to defend Lenlo. What I would like to see is your own work as well. 

[Lenlo]

 

Korialstrasz

 

It's why I was pretty certain of Turins claim.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Korialstrasz

 

Here's the wiki link, freshly googled.

 

I know nothing about WoW lore, so Shad will have to help out on this. Is this claim legit?

 

The answer to that question determines my vote.

 

Prime consort to Alexstraza, Turins character. There was a reason I was pretty certain about Turins claim.

 

I typically dont like clearing based on roles claims, but Tress usually provides fake claims I think, so I guess its not so bad this game.