Gotham Season 2

[Basel Gill]

Last we saw, Bruce and Alfred were discovering the cave. Can't wait to see what secrets are down there. The premiere is next Monday.

[Leelou]

So, who watched the season premiere?

[SinisterDeath]

Loved it. Can't wait to find out more about that blasted room.

[Leelou]

Same. I like Barbara being psycho.

[SinisterDeath]

Any idea about the new badman? 

[Basel Gill]

 

 

 

also ... anyone else getting the Harley Quinn vibe from Barbara??   big change to her story (both Barbara's and Harleys) but it could work *nods*

 

 

I think Red is onto something here, based on what happened last night. She's definitely making some kind of connection with Jerome.

 

One small thing I thought was really odd was how the prisoners' holding area Barbara is in at Arkham contains both men and women. It's an asylum, not a jail, sure, but that first time we see her getting checked in, it's basically a jail cell, and it's co-ed. That struck me as unusual.

 

I just loved the "oh, well, duh" reaction when Bruce and Alfred find out the passcode after they blow down the big metal door. The look on Alfred's face is priceless.

[Leelou]

Any idea about the new badman?

Not yet, but I thought it was obvious when they introduced him that he was the "master".

[Basel Gill]

 

Any idea about the new badman?

Not yet, but I thought it was obvious when they introduced him that he was the "master".

 

 

 

First thing I thought was to wonder if The Master regenerated again.

[SinisterDeath]

 

 

Any idea about the new badman?

Not yet, but I thought it was obvious when they introduced him that he was the "master".

 

 

 

First thing I thought was to wonder if The Master regenerated again.

 

Not sure who this 'Master' is?

[Leelou]

Heh. I stopped watching that show awhile ago.

[Red2111]

new bad guy = black mask ??

 

i do know the guy playing him, is a wonderful actor and plays great bad guys ^_^

 

 

also ... anyone else getting the Harley Quinn vibe from Barbara??   big change to her story (both Barbara's and Harleys) but it could work *nods*

 
 
I think Red is onto something here, based on what happened last night. She's definitely making some kind of connection with Jerome.
 
One small thing I thought was really odd was how the prisoners' holding area Barbara is in at Arkham contains both men and women. It's an asylum, not a jail, sure, but that first time we see her getting checked in, it's basically a jail cell, and it's co-ed. That struck me as unusual.
 
I just loved the "oh, well, duh" reaction when Bruce and Alfred find out the passcode after they blow down the big metal door. The look on Alfred's face is priceless.

 

 
tbh, i think Alfred knew the pass code.  if you look at the letter, it has smudged finger prints on the envelope, and it wasnt really encased in webbing like the rest of the room.
 
i think that Wayne wrote the letter and told Alfred "if i die, and Bruce discovers the secret room; put this in there for when he finally discovers how to get in there, but he must discover on his own how to get in there"

 

re-barbara ...  while it can work and there was 100% chemistry between the two ....  i dont think her character is strong enough to be Harley.  Barbara has a reliance & damsel in distress problem.  Harley was a follower, but also had a good bit of strength on her own.  she was Mr.J's equal, not just a danty flower that was brainwashed.   so if the show plans to turn Barbara into HQ ...  they have A LOT of development to go on her imo.

 

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the opening episode was ... interesting. 

 

the actor playing jerome is just delightful.  his laugh gives me shivers in he good kind of way.   i'm 96% on him being the joker at this point ... i reserve the last 4% just in case its a troll.

 

i'm not sure i like the change to Gordons morale high ground outlook.  the fact that he sells out to Penguin in the end by being his strong arm and also killing the man, all to get reinstated and have the Commissioner fired ....  it just doesn't fit with how they've built his character

 

Penguin + Saz = best psychopath team up EVA!!   these two play very well off one another, the actors have chemistry and i look forward to seeing these two feed off each other as the season progresses.  i'm not sure how i feel about Cat getting mixed up in with them ...

 

i'm sad that the show didn't explore the asylum more ....

 

i'm looking forward to the main villain, the actor playing him is wonderful.  the way they broke them out was ... interesting.  i wonder if we'll learn more about the gas and if this is where Joker (if jerome is joker) gets the idea for his laughing gas

 

i think they rushed the gettign into the bat cave *nods*  given what the letter said, and how their progressing the villains, i'm thinking they're aiming for the smallville approach and going for a teen batman

[SinisterDeath]

 

 

i think they rushed the gettign into the bat cave *nods*  given what the letter said, and how their progressing the villains, i'm thinking they're aiming for the smallville approach and going for a teen batman

Ideally, Bruce should have to learn his detective skills early... (People forget Batman = world's greatest detective... kinda)

The fact that he couldn't guess the passcode shows he needs to learn those skills. Right now he's far too...well, not batman. One of Batman's greatest 'powers that's not a super-power' is his willpower. And that is something mini-bruce doesn't have right now. He explodes far too easily.. He has little restraint, and just wants to hit things to make his problems go away.

The batman we know and love, would hack that door before outright blowing it up. (unless he had to get in within 5 seconds to save someone)

[Leelou]

So, week 2? 

[SinisterDeath]

So, week 2? 

Joker = so nearly freaking confirmed but could just be a red-herring for red hood?

[Red2111]

the only thing that gives me pause about Jerome is how much of a follower he is.  Joker ran the show, he didn't really take orders.  but GAH he's a fabulous troll if he isnt Joker and Jerome is a perfect villain in his own right

 

psycho barbara = much more interesting barbara.  still not Harley Quinn material though *nods*

 

 

edit - re bruce

 

right, i agree.  bruce has yet to fully grieve for his parents loss, he's in the anger stage still.  bruce didn't just wake up and become batman, he wasn't perfect.  i'm wondering if Gotham plans to have Bruce go through those growing pains stage and show us a pre-batman Batman dealing with a teenage Bruce.  i wonder if the show plans to have Bruce put on a mask and not call himself Batman, then go underground after a yer on patrol only to have the continuation of actual batman start up with the Nolan trilogy.

[Basel Gill]

the only thing that gives me pause about Jerome is how much of a follower he is. Joker ran the show, he didn't really take orders. but GAH he's a fabulous troll if he isnt Joker and Jerome is a perfect villain in his own right

Well, I figure these are meant to be origin stories, and all villains have to start their way up the ladder somehow. Jerome has established himself nicely as the underboss. I seriously doubt he is going to stay in that position long. He's probably already thinking of how to move up to the top spot. But Joker hasn't ever been outright stupid in any incarnation that I know. He knows that any attempt to either take over or strike out on his own would put him up against Black Leather Sniper Girl and he needs a plan to deal with her. Meantime, he should be able to recognize he has a good situation right now. He has a crew of his own to command, and he has been given the resources and free rein to do things his way. Even when that involves an armed assault on a police precinct with just five people, which can be potentially disastrous. So while he has designs on the top job, he is going to bide his time a little bit.

 

I had some problems with Bruce firing Alfred. Alfred up to this point has seemed to be Bruce's legal guardian in this continuity. Outside of having himself legally emancipated by a court, Bruce can't simply evict Alfred from his life. Alfred is responsible for raising Bruce and acting as a parent in lieu of Thomas and Martha. Even if he is no longer the butler, he still has to be there in the parental role. Tycoon or not, there's no way Bruce can live at Wayne Manor by himself at his age. And as a minor, can he even fire anyone legally?

[Leelou]

I don't think Alfred was really going to leave, I do think he wanted Bruce to come to his senses on his own though. 

[Basel Gill]

I don't think Alfred was really going to leave, I do think he wanted Bruce to come to his senses on his own though.

 

I wasn't expecting them to reconcile so quickly. I think if they are gonna have a rift between them, they could've gotten more mileage from it by having it go a few episodes. But resolving it did let them bring Lucius back and it was cool to see him again.

 

And I DEFINITELY wasn't expecting Essen to die so soon after getting the big promotion!

[Red2111]

 

the only thing that gives me pause about Jerome is how much of a follower he is. Joker ran the show, he didn't really take orders. but GAH he's a fabulous troll if he isnt Joker and Jerome is a perfect villain in his own right

Well, I figure these are meant to be origin stories, and all villains have to start their way up the ladder somehow. Jerome has established himself nicely as the underboss. I seriously doubt he is going to stay in that position long. He's probably already thinking of how to move up to the top spot. But Joker hasn't ever been outright stupid in any incarnation that I know. He knows that any attempt to either take over or strike out on his own would put him up against Black Leather Sniper Girl and he needs a plan to deal with her. Meantime, he should be able to recognize he has a good situation right now. He has a crew of his own to command, and he has been given the resources and free rein to do things his way. Even when that involves an armed assault on a police precinct with just five people, which can be potentially disastrous. So while he has designs on the top job, he is going to bide his time a little bit.

 

I had some problems with Bruce firing Alfred. Alfred up to this point has seemed to be Bruce's legal guardian in this continuity. Outside of having himself legally emancipated by a court, Bruce can't simply evict Alfred from his life. Alfred is responsible for raising Bruce and acting as a parent in lieu of Thomas and Martha. Even if he is no longer the butler, he still has to be there in the parental role. Tycoon or not, there's no way Bruce can live at Wayne Manor by himself at his age. And as a minor, can he even fire anyone legally?

 

 

re-Bruce.  kids Bruce's age and with a little less money have divorced their legal gaurdians/parents before in courts and won.  it would have been a court battle to be sure, but that would have been irreparable damage to the two, which can't happen if Alfred is going to be there throughout Bruces life (and really i dont see any of us being okay with the show breaking up the Alfred & Bruce combo)

 

i think really, the entire interaction was more to establish roles.  we see just how much Alfred really cares for Bruce and that to him, its not just a Master/Servant relationship.  he see's Bruce as almost his son right now, and he treats him accordingly (and most times forgets that, push come to shove, Bruce is his employer before being his son/brother).

 

which in turn puts Alfred in a tight spot.  he wants to be the father figure right now, because thats what Bruce needs.  but in the end, he just ends up being a facilitator to Bruce.

 

 

Bruce OTOH is conflicted.  he knows Alfreds place and isnt afraid to pull rank, but at the same time he's craving that father figure.

 

i actually love the relationship the show has put on for these two.  i also love how Batmans main quality is already present, single minded determinedness.

 

 

re-Jerome.  i get and agree about his potistion now.  how he's happy to be top dog in the crew but biding his time is very Joker-esques ....  but i was more talking about in Arkham.  the whole "i work for a guy that can get you anything you want" lackey role just didn't mesh well with me tbh.  Joker woudl have been running the joint in Arkham.

[Basel Gill]

I hadn't actually thought about when Jerome was in Arkham. Yeah, he really would have been running the place.

[Basel Gill]

So I guess Jerome wasn't Joker after all. Given some of the statements the producers had made previously, that doesn't surprise me. But I was really surprised the way they did it last night, having him suddenly killed like that. And the ending, with all the people laughing the same way, wasn't anything I knew what to make of it. This was an interesting interview on what they are planning:

 

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/gotham-ep-tonight-joker-origin-005412890.html

[Red2111]

okay, so ...  i'm glad i didn't go all in on Jerome being Joker *nods*  but he was a DAMN GOOD villain   RIP man  RIP.
 
the actor was WONDERFUL!!  i love him in Shameless, and have seen clips from his other work, but gods he was brilliant in Gotham.  i can't wait to see what else this kid does in his career.  perhaps one day, we'll see him as the real Joker in a movie
 
i was shocked by the show taking him out so quickly ...  i would say his death is premature, but after reading the article Basel provided i can understand and are actually thankful for them doing it the way they did.  i love the "Jerome is genuinely the mother and father of the Joker. He is the seed of the Joker." take on this character.  and truly, if thats the prologue tot he Joker, i cannot WAIT to see the real thing in a few seasons :)

 

Barbara continues to give me the proto-Harley Quinn vibe.  the magician scene with her and Jerome on stage was perfect for that, both the chemistry and the tiny power struggle.  i will be happy to see Barbara bite it via sniper girl though.  shes growing as a character ... but she doesn't have the chops to stand in her own right as a villain imo

 

i'm also glad to see the development of Bruce into Batman continues; his unwillingness to allow people to die in his place is established nicely, and this gives him another direct reason to want to put on the cap.  as Gotham sinks more into chaos and corruption, the calling to don the cap will be pulling at him harder.

 

@ Basel re-ending.  for me, it was a call to the infectious nature of the Joker on unhinged and weak minded people.  Joker had the keen ability to call followers that were deeply psychotic and unstable to him like a flies to honey.  it was a magnetism that was remarked on numerous times throughout all incarnations of the Joker (a magnetism that was always epitomized by his corruption of Harley Quinn).  the laughter at the end was showing us the "infection" of chaos and madness that Jerome has cursed Gotham with by becoming a martyr to that sort of depraved individual.  likely we'll see a multitude of Joker-esque (ie: Red Hood, and possible even Anarchy to a lesser degree) villains try to capitalize on this new chaotic subset of villains until the Joker finally comes in and unifies the lot of them.

 
btw, thanks for the article Basel, would have never known about it ^_^  i ...  i dont feel so bad about Jeromes death now.  and i like how they plan to do Jokers origin story, if they follow through on that plan.
 
"We’re going to meet Dr. Hugo Strange."
 
i literally did the fat kid dance in my chair XD  i can't wait for this one

[Basel Gill]

The ending makes sense in that light. But it was still bat-crazy. (Yeah, you see what I did there.)

[Red2111]

welp ...  we know whose gonna kill Galavan *nods*  one thing you dont do to a momma's boy is mess with their momma

 

i wonder what insane throw away bin Galavan dug this little girl out of to throw at Bruce.  something seems a bit off about her, i think right now we're seeing a surface act, its like seeing a person smile and noticing the smile doesn't reach their eyes.

 

lol @ Alfred making Bruce run home ... but not cool with him hitting Selina <_<   he's protective of Bruce and i get why he wouldn't want her around ... but in a way she's good for Bruce and can teach him things he'll need to know in the future that Alfred just can't.

 

the new commissioner is ... interesting.  i like him, but i think that Harvey has the right of it.  and when word surfaces about what Gordon did ...  idk how that will play out.  the new "Strike Force" (SWAT team i guess??) isn't gonna last.  it wont be long until the power goes to their heads imo

 

Pengiuns stance on the fallout of Jerome's actions was funny to watch; its nice to see them establish Pengiuns distaste for Jokers brand of humor and discord early on.

 

i also wonder if Sazz getting shot will push him away from guns and finally into knives.

[Basel Gill]

The main thing that struck me about Alfred making Bruce run home is that he should have at least let Bruce change clothes in the limo rather than leaving him standing on the sidewalk holding the running outfit.