[Advanced] Woodstock 1969 Mafia - Town wins

[csarmi]

I'm neither a scum nor a troll this game even though trolling was what I promised in signups thread. I'm not very good at keeping promises.

[hazelkrs1]

Shut up, troll. Mr. I'm gonna quote Elvis to keep Des riled up.

[csarmi]

Quote Elvis? What?

[Drunk Tank]

Got a couple of quotes ready to reply to and other various thoughts, but first a quick thought-

 

While doing my reread I saw DT vote for Lenlo, was the only vote on Lenlo at the time, and it didn't look like a busvote to me at the time (didn't finish my reread tho) so I was actually ready to clear him for it

 

Then while catching up I saw AJ's thoughts on DT and it made me think of something...

 

What if DT is a Symp that was trying to signal his teammates? That seems to be all the rage lately for newb symps, and DT IS more engaged than most games but also doesn't have many clear connections to others (no one pushing him that hard or defending him) so symp would fit there somewhat, and if he DOES flip symp then that post of his that had both Lenlo and Darthe as scumreads could have the rest of his team as well

 

Kinda cheap, but I still felt it worth throwing out there

This is dumb.

 

If I were scum why would I "signal his teammates" when scum would most likely have a QT to use to communicate.

 

 

My only thoughts regarding most of this activity is town violence. I see Lenlo and Darthe lurking super hard along with key (though there was an excellent post regarding, so moot). I find it interesting TGlems can stop in, make a post/vote and the lynch wagon takes off..../much ponder 

 

I'm just not convinced of Depsot's scummyness, but I have no interest in a no lynch.  His spaz reaction regarding Tommy and Hallia (alleged PR outing) was not scummy.

 

I like reading the posts and rereading the thread seeing each post as town and again as scum (the poster that is). Changes the flavor.  

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Lenlo[/v]

 

This is the post I'm referring to. Mentions Lenlo and Darthe as lurkers, but they weren't really the only lurkers at the time... plus could he really have been that lucky? Key is obviously one that is under tons of suspicion (will give more thoughts in a bit), and then the last one he mentions here in this paragraph is TG, who is still on my scumdar. Plus he soft defends Key after bringing her up, then soft pushes TG...

 

That would make 4 scum plus a symp if my theory is correct, but if they're underpowered this scenario is def feasible.

 

Also for reference here's the post where DT unvotes Lenlo:

 

 

 

I'm the scummiest so far but I'm still town.

 

 

Lenlo should be the lynch because he is Lenlo and his defense was actually pretty scummy. Deflecting with a joke isn't a defense len.

Your right its not a defense. Theres nothing to defend against though Arsis. Your voting me as payback for killing you when you were a survivor. Im not gonna defend against something that was amusing for me to do in another game.

 

 

 

 

Lenlo, why do you think we should be townreading you?

You shouldnt be yet, cause ive done jack-all. Im trying to read through this thread right now and catch up but the amount of Tom/Des BS is making it annoying.

 

 

This I can understand.

Don't? Skip it?

Now this makes me unhappy.

 

I voted Lenlo mostly to drag him to this game and contribute because I regard lurkers as scummy. Now he's having to wade through all the spamtacular poo-poo nuggets with you suggesting skip it. Awesome!! 

 

Where is the skip point?? It's bad enough having to reread though all this crap looking for an out of place "if and or but" I can use as evidence. (sorry I'm ranty and running on caffeine and lack of sleep).

 

I'm going to give this some time to soak.

 

[unvote]

 

 

So right off the bat, bolded basically reeks. Looks entirely like a contrived reason to desert a train, especially if it was a bus or distance vote

 

Also checked the context, and after DT voted Lenlo Tommy and Arsis joined in, but then Tommy vote hopped again shortly after... and I can't remember if Arsis hopped off or not but he def kept Lenlo as a scum read. DT unvoted several pages later, after attention had died down on Lenlo already, but then it was a day later and timing was roughly the same so it might not have been scum waiting for good timing to unvote but simply when DT got back online.

 

Regardless this does seem to support my theory, and furthermore after reviewing DT's iso very briefly he certainly looks bad in aggregate. Does a lot of "joke" scumclaiming, and after bringing up Lenlo, Darthe, Key, and Yates early on, he basically never mentions them again.

 

/Very Convincing Thoughts

 

Again this is a silly contrived plot and holds no water. I've already explained my vote/unvote regarding Lenlo. It has nothing to do with luck, I just picked two lurkers (Darthe/Lenlo)  and that was it.

 

Currently I'm rereading the posts in the #1700 range trying to see if the BFG/Kates/Csarmi conversation has anything of merit.

 

Am I wasting my time??

[hazelkrs1]

And meh I was gonna leave it at that, but screw it I'm in rant mode-

 

I've said this before, and I'll say it again- I don't really think I'm as sensitive as many of you prob think. I'm not gonna act like I'm thick skinned, I'm an emotional mafia player so it can be easy to rile me up at times. But the BIG thing that is more likely to send me off the edge than anything else is if I feel I'm being ganged up on for stupid reasons.

 

For instance- at the very start of this game, I had just ridiculous amounts of WIM. I was all about getting out thoughts and observations instantly and kickstarting the game into super cereal mode as soon as possible. Instead, I caught a lot of flak early on or what I felt was dubious reasons. That was the start of me getting heated, but I did start to cool down again.

 

Then Tommy basically started trolling me with the "shook" thing. I warned him to cut that shit, he didn't, so I put him on iggy. Then after THAT I felt multiple people were ganging up on me for absolutely dogshit reasons considering Tommy was the one antagonizing me.

 

THAT'S what caused my meltdown.

 

So basically in the future if you play with me, if there is legit reason for a lot of people to suspect me, I'll prob be fine with it. But if people are ganging up on me for bad reasons from my perspective, I'm def more likely to emorage.

 

Now, does this mean I won't sometimes use this to my advantage as scum and AtE now and then? No. I'm very aware of my meta and will abuse it when I see fit (AtE can be frustrating but IS part of the game). But still, something to consider when dealing with me in the future.

[hazelkrs1]

@DT: Every mod will treat a Symp however they like, but traditionally a Symp (short for sympathizer, also known as a Traitor) will not have access to the QT but might know who his teammates are. Sometimes Symps will try signaling to their teammates, because some setups allow them to be recruited to the QT, or at the very least the Symp might wanna keep the scum from killing them (seen it happen, and it's lolarious).

 

Hence my speculation. You brought up 4 peeps there- Lenlo, Darthe, Key, and TG, yet backed off of Lenlo fairly quickly (and dubiously imo), and never mentioned the others again. Meanwhile, both Lenlo and Darthe flipped scum, Key looks very likely to be scum, and TG has been on my radar as well.

 

So no,, as you can see it's not some dumb or contrived theory on my part, it def has a lot supporting it, and you trying to dismiss it right offhand well, is #notagoodlook

[Drunk Tank]

I'm not dismissing it offhand, I'm telling you it's dumb.

 

You may as well say I was also signalling for Hallia to be killed and for Darthe to be killed as I'm sitting in a chair gently stroking my white Persian cat!!

[hazelkrs1]

Quote Elvis? What?

 

You're a slimy slimy slimy scumball, you know that Csarmi?

 

Went searching for it, and for a sec I thought I messed up and that it was someone else. I saw that you DID post this shortly after my meltdown-

 

@Despi for the record I do think you were shook.

 

And I thought for a second that might be it, but then kept looking for who DID post those Elvis lyrics.

 

Found this.

 

 

A well'a bless my soul

What'sa wrong with me?

I'm itchin' like a man in a fuzzy tree

My friends say I'm actin' wild as a bug

I'm in love

I'm all shook up

Mm mm mm, mm, yay, yay, yay

Great song. I'm a big fan of Elvis.

 

 

So then I was perplexed, cause I was like "wha... why didn't that come up in search? So I clicked on the upper right hand arrow in it, and it took me to this post:

 

I'll never be the same, breaking decency

Don't be tree trunk, don't fall on my living roots

I've been humming too many words, got a weak self esteem

That's been stomped away from every single dream

But it's something else that brought us feaze

Keep it all inside until we feel we can't unleash

I think that you made it up, I think that your mind is gone

I think you shouldn't have glorified, now your wrong

 

Diff lyrics. Yet it doesn't show an edit.

 

So you kept at the "shook" thing longer than most to keep antagonizing me, then somehow went back and changed your post without it showing that you edited (yet this is absolute distinct PROOF that you DID change the post)

 

Like I said, slimy slimy scumball. I don't mean that in a nice way either. You're in the same boat as Hallia- please don't try and butter me up and act like we're all chummy after this.

[hazelkrs1]

Also curious how you can edit posts without it showing up. Thought they fixed that for everyone.

[Thane Vakarian]

just so you know, glad you're back in the game as your usual you Des.

 

Now, would you be willing to vote DT too? i see what you mean with signaling the scum team (i did the bloody same thing) and it seems very plausible. A flip on DT would give a lot of info, that's for sure.   

[csarmi]

I didn't post anything about Elvis. I know zero songs of his. Arsis misquoted me on purpose (you can edit quotes you know that right) to troll you.

 

edit: typo

[csarmi]

Think about what you're doing.

 

You're basically accusing me of cheating there Despo. I'd never edit a post to significantly change it (even if it was allowed which it isn't).

[csarmi]

Also curious how I can be so blind. I'm Despo, proving Csarmi of cheatzors. Leet I am. But frank.

See my quote?

[csarmi]

Strange how I, almighty Despo could edit this post without it appearing to be edited.

Hmm?

 

See now? It was a practical joke of Arsis. I didn't call it out cause I found it kind of funny and I thought it was obvious what was going on.

[csarmi]

What magicking is going on here?

[hazelkrs1]

I didn't post anything about Elvis. I know zero dongs of his. Arsis misquoted me on purpose (you can edit quotes you know that right) to troll you.

 

You might be right but I did feel like I saw the same post that he quoted unedited before

 

If it was him editing to troll me then w/e he's an ass and you might be less of one

 

But you DID join in with the "shook" stuff so meh I don't feel that bad for suspecting you of shenanigans

 

Also I feel you either

 

A) are scum because of the way you have handled your read on me all game

 

or

 

B) are town possibly but still completely freaking not even close to trying to read me right (you've tunneled on me all game, and for pretty bad reasoning honestly) and thinking back you try acting like you've been "right" on me before when I was scum but I think you're just one of those people who likes suspecting the same person every single game to look "right" when they're scum cause you just about always read me as scum

 

Seriously tho, if you're town then you should have let go of your scumread of me a LOOOONG time ago.

[csarmi]

Note: the last few quotes of Despo are not actually what he wrote, I modified the text withing the quote to show what's happened by example. Don't be confused by this.

[hazelkrs1]

 

Also curious how I can be so blind. I'm Despo, proving Csarmi of cheatzors. Leet I am. But frank.

See my quote?

 

 

 

Don't be an imbecile. I KNOW you can edit someone's post in quotes. I legit thought YOU changed your post cause I remembered seeing someone post the Elvis lyrics but not in a nested quote. I might have remembered wrong.

[hazelkrs1]

And now, you're back to trolling me anyways.

 

WIM dropping yet again this game.

 

[csarmi]

You do remember wrong.

 

I'm pretty sure I can prove it if need be, but frankly I dunno where to put this accusation of me. You do know me well enough Despo. I would never do anything like that and I'm pretty sure you know that.

 

---------------

 

And just to get the facts straight (please don't take any of this the wrong way):

 

1) I never tried to antagonize you (I think I may have trolled you a little after your outburst which was NOT called for in my opinion.

2) I didn't get the impression that Tommy was trolling you and/or antagonizing you just for the sake of doing it, also, I don't think he ever went even close to overboard.

3) You did the same thing to me in the Weasley game. In retrospect, I'm pretty sure you didn't actually go overboard there, it's just a couple of things aligning AND that caused me to think it was too much. That's what I think the situation might be here with you in regards to Tommy.

4) I did believe (and I still do believe) that you were shook. Not sure why that word shakes you so much.

5) I stand by everything I said to you afterwards (about how ignoring don't work in a game and how you should come back to play). In fact, I think I did right there to get you move your ass back here.

[csarmi]

And now, you're back to trolling me anyways.

 

WIM dropping yet again this game.

 

Yea I'm trolling you to show what happened and because you accused me of plain cheating. Call it even?

 

And sorry but I can't help singing this right now:

 

Before you started tokin' you used to have a brain

But now you don't get even the simplest of things

I can draw a little picture

Or even use my hands

I try to explain but you just don't understand

Man you're really losin' it

And you've really done a lot of junk now

But you keep on abusin' it

What in the world happened to you

It's bad enough you do it to yourself

But taking someone with you

Well you know that's something else

I say I'm not that kind of person

I'm not that kind of man

I try to explain but you just don't understand

I might be sympathetic or cut a little slack

If I thought that you were willing to give a little back

But you do it in the morning

You do it in the night

You lie to refrain from just facing your life

So I'll see you tomorrow

You'll be gackin' up again

I'll see you in a coffin by the time your wad is spent

I think of all the times that I tried to lend a hand

I try to explain but you just don't understand

[csarmi]

BTW someone DID mention Shook by Elvis before that Arsis sheenaningan.

[hazelkrs1]

W/e just gonna ignore Csarmi for now and go back to the other stuff I wanted to cover earlier tonight

 

Listen Yates just stop arguing with us please. Pretend AJ and I don't even exist and engage all the other players in the game.

You had a one-post spat with BFG. I wanted you to interrogate BFG and you refused. You asked one question of me and one from the new guy. But a lot of your posting has been hot air and I'm getting tired of you defending yourself with 10x the intensity you show toward anything else. Go on the attack. Try to solve the game. Pretend we are not even here. That's what a villager would do naturally and I feel ridiculous even saying this because it's so basic.

You aren't lock scum but you aren't acting like town either. Please don't respond to this as I'm not interested in another argument.

 

I thought this post was pretty on point. Not only do I feel like Yates cares 100000x more about defending himself than trying to get out good reads in case he is lynched, but so much of his and Key's defense has either been outright bad or very wifomy

 

 

Pretend we are not even here. That's what a villager would do naturally and I feel ridiculous even saying this because it's so basic.

In order for ANYTHING I say to have any weight I have to unburden the slot of this:

Bottom line is now you're in a bad position because BOTH of the players you argued against killing yesterday have flipped scum.

Clearing ^^^this^^^ up is what a VILLAGER would do. And that's what I thought I did.

Then you cock blocked when I actually tried to start solving the game with your unwillingness to be helpful. And it has subsequently devolved back into me fighting uphill out of a corner again.

 

 

If you're town and in a bad spot, you do NOT need to "resolve" the suspicion on your slot first and foremost, that's just selfish play.

 

You try and defend yourself the best you can, but more importantly put in #work to get out your thoughts about the rest of the player field that way should you be lynched town will at least be able to see your suspicions and thoughts were genuine.

 

Instead, Yates and Key both seem to be fighting to survive, not to help town.

 

 

 

 

Yates I would really like you to be Town, Key too, because I think you guys would be a powerhouse townie hydra.

I'm just not seeing it here. You realize that you guys basically have to die at some point because of the Wifom on your slot now, right?

You're heavily linked to two different scum flips.

Heaven forbid I not want to lynch someone who had barely contributed to the game. That goes for darthe and Len.

You are SO positive that we are scum, that you refuse to see how not wanting to lynch virtual inactives comes from a town place. I get it looks bad because of how they flipped, but maybe, just possibly, look at it for a second the other way. That we are town and trying to figure this game out too. How does lynching inactives - that hadn't even blipped on my radar - help town?

Bolded line just reads super aggro.

Key - you should've started with "I should've listened to you guys" and then I would feel better about your explanation.

Yeah, I get it. You didn't want to lynch some people because they were gone and it wouldn't provide a lot of info. It is townie to say, but scum can speak objectively to sound pro-town all the time.

Bottom line is now you're in a bad position because BOTH of the players you argued against killing yesterday have flipped scum.

Instead of just lashing out at me and concentrating on defending yourself, relax a bit to clear your head and then start doing work.

Have you ever known me to be aggro? I am not y'all, I don't need to have a 'who has the biggest' contest . It's me rolling my eyes and sighing about how I'm in such a bad spot because I couldn't toneread two people who collectively had like 20 posts, only maybe 4 of which were game related.

As for only attacking you/defending myself - why do you think I was rereading through the thread last night, even so close to DL? I was trying to figure things out. Today, I haven't really had time to be around.

Re: Bad spot. You don't have to tell me that. Again and again and again . I get it. I'm saying, try looking at it from the other side. That I AM trying to figure things out and I didn't/don't think lynching inactives helps.

Both you and Tommy, please tell me why, as scum, would I NK Hallia? It only serves to make us look bad, especially in the wake of Len's flip. Seems like a very stupid/risky move - does that seem like something Yates or I would do?

If you are so distracted by us, then lynch us. But be ready to still look for two more scum because we are not. Not meant to be a threat, just a statement.

 

 

Thing is Key you're more appealing to AJ (and others by proxy) to give you the benefit of the doubt and read you as town... just because.

 

That's... not how it works tho. You want people to see it from your perspective? Well they're not always gonna. If they don't trust you, they're not going to automatically give you the benefit of the doubt, not when the game is on the line.

 

SO. If you ARE town, please stop being so focused on yourself and get out thoughts about others in and put in actual #work.

 

And yeah the italics are an example of the wifomy type defense I was referring to up top btw.

 

@Kates

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

this so, so much. You're awesome AJ

 

 

 

I think I am going to save the bulk of my thoughts for when night ends but in short I find claims so far to be legit (maybe sans that bodyguard claim, but the Len flip makes that a bit cleaner barring heavy scum PR), Tommy imo is a bit muddled this game but it's Tommy who I can't really read to be fair. Des looks sincere but his arguments with Tommy, Arsis, Salami, Kates etc are a lot of conflict that's fairly unnecessary thus far in the game. I also think that Kates/Salami are off. It's a total gut thing but if I die look into them (probably as a lategame tinfoil) and in the short run trust

Des
Krak
TG
Tommy/Hally?

I agree that someone on his 'trust' list is probably scum. I haven't reread either, but going based on what darthe said above, my money is on des. 'He sounds sincere but his arguments (with half the game) are innecessary'. Looks like hedging. He's also been extremely quiet since Len lynch was proposed and even more so since Yates/me started taking the brunt of accusation.

 

 

[hazelkrs1]

You do remember wrong.

 

I'm pretty sure I can prove it if need be, but frankly I dunno where to put this accusation of me. You do know me well enough Despo. I would never do anything like that and I'm pretty sure you know that.

 

---------------

 

And just to get the facts straight (please don't take any of this the wrong way):

 

1) I never tried to antagonize you (I think I may have trolled you a little after your outburst which was NOT called for in my opinion.

2) I didn't get the impression that Tommy was trolling you and/or antagonizing you just for the sake of doing it, also, I don't think he ever went even close to overboard.

3) You did the same thing to me in the Weasley game. In retrospect, I'm pretty sure you didn't actually go overboard there, it's just a couple of things aligning AND that caused me to think it was too much. That's what I think the situation might be here with you in regards to Tommy.

4) I did believe (and I still do believe) that you were shook. Not sure why that word shakes you so much.

5) I stand by everything I said to you afterwards (about how ignoring don't work in a game and how you should come back to play). In fact, I think I did right there to get you move your ass back here.

 

1) Don't be obtuse. TROLLING = ANTAGONIZING. A horse by any other name is still a horse. Sometimes there's playful trolling, but when you're "trolling" someone who's already pissed, you're just being an ass yourself and YES, being antagonizing.

2) I disagree. I think he would as well. I'm over it tho. He's not a bad guy, he just acts like a dick sometimes in mafia games

3) I don't even remember that game honestly but I do remember trolling you in a game in a past- and it was because of a grudge against you because of your behavior in a game before that (where I felt you had really hurt town and had trolled a bit yourself). I'm not saying that was cool of me, I can admittedly be extremely immature at times. As far as overlapping stuff goes, that could def have a part in things. My life has been extremely stressful lately, what with trying to move into our new house and my sleep issues lately. I still think Tommy was purposefully trying to get under my skin. I might have overreacted after the fact but I still don't think I was out of line to begin with.

4) Being "shook" implies you're all scurred scum that doesn't know how to respond to a situation. It's more of a jab at my play in general than a comment on my play this game specifically. As scum I don't get "shook". If people suspect me, I do what I can to get out of it, but I don't really care all that much if I am lynched or killed as scum since I don't bet on making it to endgame anyways (I'm often a lodestone for power roles). As scum I try sowing as much wifom as possible, and taking townies down with me if I do go down. If someone is onto me, I don't get shook. And no, I wasn't shook earlier, and am not scum.

5) Nothing you said had anything to do with getting me to get back into it. I put on my big girl panties and came back with as level head as I could on my own.

[hazelkrs1]

So basically I'm thinking either lynch DT to test if he was symp signaling, lynch Kates cause gosh they aren't defending themselves well at all or looking townie lately, TG cause I think he's slimy, or mebbe Csarmi in case he wasn't "trolling" earlier but was just scum antagonizing (his posts I quoted while catching up did look awful, the ones during me and Tommy's spat)

 

[v]Drunk Tank[/v] for now for competing trains