[Advanced] Woodstock 1969 Mafia - Town wins

[hazelkrs1]

Also some funniness on pg 11- apparently Csarmi was having problems posting from mobile or something, but it kinda almost looks like Tommy asked him something direct and Csarmi couldn't really reply in a convincing fashion so started pretending he was cutting out like when you're on the phone with someone annoying so you pretend you're losing service and hang up

 

 

Note- this is more funny to me than something actually significant

[Thane Vakarian]

Thane, just for reference, most of the time when people put someone as "grey" it's because they are physically attracted to them and want to polish their swords. Could help prevent confusion in the future.

do i put you in the grey then?

 

 

I do tend to buy Csarmi's townclaim for now. We'll see how things develop during the game.

[Thane Vakarian]

i think that we have some info to go on seeing Lenlo flipped scum.

[Pralaya]

Al'Lan Mandragoran replaces Arsis in game

[Pralaya]

<Reserved for lynch scene>

[nervositee]

 

 

Vos- Hrmmmm you're looking a bit more sketchy now. Also that vote fail doesn't look like one that could happen naturally, "I" isn't really that close to "[" on the keyboard, but looks enough like it to make it look like a code fail. Ticky tack but still. IGMEOY

 

 

On a mac keyboard, [ is made with alt + 8. | is made by alt + 7. If you look closely is a division line, not a capital i. So theres that. 

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

 

 

Vos- Hrmmmm you're looking a bit more sketchy now. Also that vote fail doesn't look like one that could happen naturally, "I" isn't really that close to "[" on the keyboard, but looks enough like it to make it look like a code fail. Ticky tack but still. IGMEOY

 

On a mac keyboard, [ is made with alt + 8. | is made by alt + 7. If you look closely is a division line, not a capital i. So theres that.

Not a Mac user but I def don't think you'd lie about this so meh.

 

What are your thoughts atm tho? Who looks bad after Lenlo's flip?

[nervositee]

Well my main gripe right now is Hallia. 

 

If town, I get it how she came to the conclusion she did. 

 

Her game however has been so incredibly scummy it's not even funny. It would be easy to make a vague hint at PM-matching and coast clear. 

 

AJs vote for Len considering his flip also looks pretty bad, but I've had a rough night and have skimmed a bit of his posts so will re-read from EOD and come with coherent reads come daybreak. 

[hazelkrs1]

First twenty pages:

 

 

 

 

Firs time modding? It's ok Pral, we will try and be gentle.

 

At least till post game.  Then the complaining begins.

 

 

 

Hard Claim Dr Dre

Official NWA Action
Kill Lenlo before he can spawn his daughter

 

Not much, but this early banter from TG irt Lenlo could be wolf/wolf interacting early for lulz (seen it happen many times)

 

 

Hardclaim Billy Ray Cyrus

Lets do this.

So you're responsible for Miley Cyrus?

[V]Lenlo[/v]

 

 

As could this

 

Darthe is null for me so far. I can see him abusing his recent meta just like this as either alignment.

 

 

AJ's vig threat sounds off. Like that he tried to get this started tho.

 

 

Despo is downright ... New? Is that you Des? You sound different.

 

These three posts in quick succession def look sketchy to me, and could be spewing all three town (of course I'm one of them so meh).

 

The comment about Darthe is weird since Darthe hadn't really said much to this point, so dunno where he could be "abusing meta", plus if it's null why point it out unless it's a soft push or faking like he's paying attention?

 

Comment about AJ is weird since I def didn't take AJ's vig threat as serious by any means (again, fake scumhunting)

 

And the comment about me started the soft push, and very well may have been what completely set off the spat between Tommy and myself (Tommy was like "Yeah, he kinda does..." after this post from Salami)

 

Legitimate answer for AJ.

I'm town.

If you share my alignment, you want to keep me alive.

 

^Csarmi's soft PR claim

 

 

People who are saying I'm a little off bmwith soft pushing and hedging statements are CONFIRMED pushing an antitown agenda atm

 

@Despo: to clarify - i just find you different. In no way am I implying that I'm also finding you scummy (for it).

 

 

Unnecessary backtracking off of FOS is >rand to be scum since scum are obv more self-conscious about that sort of thing (if they soft push they'll wanna make it seem like they were never pushing to begin with)

 

 

Welp.  Considering there are only what, four of us even posting right now?

 

He's replying, and in what I feel is a clear manner.

Things did get rather serious in here quickly. I'm not really complaining, not a big fan of the random vote stage anyway.

 

Regarding how clear the dialogue is between those involved, it remains to be seen. I won't assume anyone is anything at this point.

 

 

Bolded is somewhat bad tone, could be forced

 

Hally. What is your read on Tommy now? In particular, I'd like to see if anything stands out for you on a re-read. I think I found something but I might be giving it too much weight.

 

After getting Tommy to start pushing at me, Csarmi seems to want to get Hallia to start pushing at Tom for him. Csarmi at the hub of all kinds of town on town violence early on.

 

I have very mixed feelings about this. The way Tommy is handling this game (and how he's handling Despo in particular is setting alarm bells off in my head.

Especially the "Despo, what is going with you?" sentence which is classic scum!Tommy tell in my book. Who soft pushed whom and who is the one asking fake questions is somewhat debatable too.
I can definitely see Tommy stay in reporter mode (see his early posts... Comments on actions like he's making a field report) and try to catch fish for his mislynch push.

I can see the little misrepresentations too he so very loves make as scum. I can see the "hmm that's scummy I know cause I do it as scum all the time myself" which is a tell I associate with scum!Tom.

So yea I can buy Tom being scum.

Problem is... His points on the other hand are mostly good and his game consistent and yes he does have a point in Despo whom I just don't like here at all.

So tldr: I dunno what to think.

I need more info I suppose.

 

Csarmi starts getting obvious with the instigating from this post on, observe:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nope. You're soft pushing and trying to stop others from scumhunting. That's like the opposite of scumhunting.

See I don't disagree with this here.

 

 

 

 

Des, you keep making posts like "you should hunt real scum instead of me" and those are classic wolfy posts. I know this because I make posts like that all the time as mafia. You are currently OMGUSing me in the most unbelievable manner I can recall from you. Your thought process for finding me scummy for pushing you is nonexistent. Frankly, it looks painfully obvious to me that you're making it up as you go and don't know how to handle me pushing you and I caught you off guard.

There's nothing incorrect in my response. I called you and Hallia out as scum/scum, then I voted for you for asking fake questions and trying to get me off your back by accusing me of 'obfuscating' (which isn't a thing), and then you called me scum and voted for Hallia in the same post.

So it looks like you're lying and doing a pretty poor job of it.

With this neither tho.

Still. Upon reading the exchange again.

Gun to my head Tommy is scum. And no that doesn't make Despo town.

 

 

 

 

Sure. Check it out. Des came into the thread being aloof and whimsical in a way I don't associate with him in any role; that's fine, whatever. I had a little mini mindmeld moment with Salami when he mentioned it too. Des threw down a few oddball reads like Tommy and Arsis look good, but he did in a way that emulates Cory's typical early game style which is what caught my eye. He also said he's WTL Krak or Darthe, someone he knows I'm voting for out of spite and might actually push out of spite; Ditto for Arsis. He voted for you in that post and I have no idea why he's WTL Krak, but whatever. I can let that go... kinda.

He weakly FOS's Hallia and then mentions how Krak is confirmed scum and his explanation for voting you is some gibberish I don't understand that is for out-of-game reasons, which is... whatever, but doesn't sound like him as a townie, it sounds like something he'd do as scum hiding behind lame reasoning to vote for people.

So that's all pretty weird already. He's bouncing around really fervently but he doesn't sound like him, he sounds like Cory or even me when I'm scum in early game trying to get town points for verbal diarrhea.

But then the really weird happens. Salami calls him out for being weird and immediately after Des tries to "look serious" by asking him for reads; then Hallia softly defends him with the 'turning a new leaf' comment, then Des tries to shrug suspicion off him by telling people to get out of his way -- not believable. His immediate turn to question Hallia is another example of him trying to "look serious" when he's under suspicion, except it looked a little goofy and made me think Des/Hallia scum/scum makes sense. Hallia doesn't try to read Des in response to his question but instead says Des is null, I am null, and Salami is town for reasons I don't understand other than "well, he's posting."

Whatever. Looks like weird interaction between the two of them. But then it escalates even more:

Des says "Wow you're bad if you're reading me as scum right now. Or just scum." which isn't something a reasonable person says, and even for stubborn town Des that's bad... but when Des takes a hard right turn and calls ME scum but then votes for HALLIA, that's when I thought "aha, he actually is scum."

He's not arguing like a townie would. He tried to guilt me into being suspicious of someone else by saying I'm 'obfuscating' and then he got nervous and delected onto Hallia and then has called me lock scum ever since. It's ridiculous. And it's fake.

This isn't even counting that I also think Hallia is scummy but he doesn't care about that and isn't following up on his "suspicions" of her in any way.

I don't even think I should have to point this out to you guys. This is basic. Can you read his posts and tell me "yeah, looks town" and not "yeah, looks like caught scum"?

He's just straight trolling now and not providing any reasoning at all. It's pathetic. He's in anti-spew mode and is likely just going to take pot shots at me for the rest of the day until one of us is lynched because he knows I'll keep at it and probably be successful so if he says too much he may out one of his bros. (That's what anti-spew means in case you didn't know the term.)

And this makes complete sense too. Yea Des looks bad. Yea Tommy will have this story making as much sense as scum too.

My main problem here is that my mind says Despo is >>rand to be scum. My gut says Tommy is scum.

And neither believes they'd be scum/scum.

Halp.

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, I'll let them speak for themselves. Csarmi is in my eyes very clearly trying to keep the spat between Tommy and I going for as long as possible.

 

Meh, I dunno, I think DES vs TOMMY is town/town. And I think it has drawn so much attention that it's a bit exhausting. 

 

I also don't understand in which world Tommy hardclaiming Cop would auto-clear him, as he says it will. Dumb cop to CC day 1. 

 

Problem is, I have a town read on almost everyone. Too many people not being vocal, it's just been a couple of hours of, as I said, who got the biggest... 

 

Betting most scum is just sitting back and enjoying the show. 

 

Gun to my head, from the people who has been vocal tonight my gut says AJ is scum. Arsis, Des, Tommy and Csarmi is town. I have a bad feeling about Hallia, and I dunno what kind of role she would have that confirms Tommy, but I'll let it slide for now since I don't see why she would do that as scum. 

 

Bold sticks out to me on reread- Vos is saying almost everyone looks town to him, which could be somewhat of a copout really, especially with how this builds up to his vote

 

Also should Csarmi flip scum, Vos trying to slip him into the other town reads could be telling

 

AJ sumary:

 

Strange going after Csarmi and Darthe. Gets cranky when Csarmi doesn't "play the game". FOS's Des but then goes on to protect/buddy. Votes (quite randomly?) Darthe. Tries to take the "town leader" role. Blantantly (and irritatingly) attacks Csarmi with the whole "get on my level" (pfft). Being very submissive when communicating with Tommy. 

 

I dunno. We're like 24 hours into the game and most people haven't said more than hullo. But from the pile, this is the thickest straw

 

[v]AJ[/v]

 

Bold is more of what I was talking about- Vos acting almost reluctant to vote or name a scumread here because everyone looks town to him or something. Looks like him trying to keep from taking a hard stance early on.

 

Also I pressured Vos for a bit at the time for acting like he didn't like the fast start- he seemed perturbed that everything got going so quickly. His responses didn't see particularly wolfy at the time, but eh I could see him being scum here.

 

 

TLDR: Mostly stuff showing Csarmi looking bad early on, both due to early banter with Lenlo that coulda been wolves getting cozy with one another on thread, and him instigating (and starting, basically) the spat between Tommy and I. Also a little bit of a connection between TG and Lenlo early on, and Vos looking uncomfortable that the game got going so quick. Oh and a bad tone post from DT.

[Drunk Tank]

I'll admit Lenlo as scum wasn't in the front of my brain. My vote on him earlier was due to being super lurky.

 

 

Not sure I trust your fellow voters. 
 
But sure, why not, I don't trust enough people will come online within the next three hours. 
 
[unvote]
 
|v]Lenlo[/v]
 
Ok, hitting bed now.

Wait, what? Wouldn't bold be a better reason to vote for Len in the first place? Since he and Vos were tied with the most votes at this time.

 

 

This is three hours until lynch.

 

DL is in about an hour I believe.
 
I'll be around and will hammer if he doesn't come back before then.
 
For now I'll page back and read up again.

Hammer isn't necessary? It's a hybrid hammer game.

Unless you were wanting to vote him, of course.

 

 

This is just under one hour.

I'm trying to figure that out myself re: who I want to vote for. Rereading and such.

Re: questioning, yep, trying to figure things out. Re: personal opinions, I feel like I've given several. Specifically on you, Hallia, and Len. Also on why I thought lynching darthe was a terrible idea.

 

This is less than thirty minutes.

 

Spot on there AJ

And where are your thoughts Hally? There's a lot of parroting from you and very little of your own opinion.

I'd still like to know why you are voting Len.

 

 

My guess is because Lenlo is scum.

I have to go to bed.

[v]Hallia[/v]

And here is where I have a problem.

 

As I was reading along I was agreeing with you regarding Darthe, and then he came in and posted about having too much on his plate and would try to read and catch up. I also believe he place a Vote on BFG. I also wasn't comfortable with speed lynching  lurkerDarthe until he had a chance to stop by blah blah blah..... 

 

But these posts at the close of the day seem intent on casting doubt on the Lenlo train, or at least setting up Vos or Hallia.

[Drunk Tank]

. Oh and a bad tone post from DT.

Oh really.....

 

 

Well you're fat and your new baby will be born unable to speak English!

[hazelkrs1]

Well my main gripe right now is Hallia. 

 

If town, I get it how she came to the conclusion she did. 

 

Her game however has been so incredibly scummy it's not even funny. It would be easy to make a vague hint at PM-matching and coast clear. 

 

AJs vote for Len considering his flip also looks pretty bad, but I've had a rough night and have skimmed a bit of his posts so will re-read from EOD and come with coherent reads come daybreak. 

 

Gotta say meh @ both of these reads bro...

 

I def don't agree with what Hallia did, but it's also well within her town meta to claim or hint at a role early in a game since she thinks she's Wonder Woman coming to someone's rescue

 

Also while Hallia COULD be scum here trying to coast on a PR claim/hint and buddy Tommy, one of the people who I saw recently pushing this possibility was Kates. Since Kates don't look that great right now, you pushing the same agenda is #notagoodlook

 

Also you've basically been married to that AJ scumread for quite a while now, whereas if anything recently his play strongly suggests town to me. That is also #notagoodlook.

 

And this is nitpicking, but the last bit looks like more of what I just pointed out- you trying to shirk responsibility for your reads with the good ol "But I'm tired right now so prob wrong" thing

[hazelkrs1]

 

. Oh and a bad tone post from DT.

Oh really.....

 

 

Well you're fat and your new baby will be born unable to speak English!

 

 

I can always lose weight (once all my favorite restaurants shut down simultaneously), and my baby will be born in a tweed jacket with a pipe in it's mouth, able to produce Shakespearean quotes at will

[Drunk Tank]

 

 

. Oh and a bad tone post from DT.

Oh really.....

 

 

Well you're fat and your new baby will be born unable to speak English!

 

 

I can always lose weight (once all my favorite restaurants shut down simultaneously), and my baby will be born in a tweed jacket with a pipe in it's mouth, able to produce Shakespearean quotes at will

 

Got my oldest beat already...

[hazelkrs1]

At least he can cook tho!

 

#way to a woman's heart

[csarmi]

Also some funniness on pg 11- apparently Csarmi was having problems posting from mobile or something, but it kinda almost looks like Tommy asked him something direct and Csarmi couldn't really reply in a convincing fashion so started pretending he was cutting out like when you're on the phone with someone annoying so you pretend you're losing service and hang up

 

 

Note- this is more funny to me than something actually significant

Heh.

 

Actually, some of my earlier catch up posts (relating to your spat) are off sync on thread too because I was catching up on phone and reacting on stuff as I went. Which looks quite weird where I'm posting on stuff happening 5 page earlier while apparently Tommy tried to question me realtime.

[csarmi]

Which is best to avoid of course but I simply had no other choice.

[nervositee]

 

Well my main gripe right now is Hallia. 

 

If town, I get it how she came to the conclusion she did. 

 

Her game however has been so incredibly scummy it's not even funny. It would be easy to make a vague hint at PM-matching and coast clear. 

 

AJs vote for Len considering his flip also looks pretty bad, but I've had a rough night and have skimmed a bit of his posts so will re-read from EOD and come with coherent reads come daybreak. 

 

Gotta say meh @ both of these reads bro...

 

I def don't agree with what Hallia did, but it's also well within her town meta to claim or hint at a role early in a game since she thinks she's Wonder Woman coming to someone's rescue

 

Also while Hallia COULD be scum here trying to coast on a PR claim/hint and buddy Tommy, one of the people who I saw recently pushing this possibility was Kates. Since Kates don't look that great right now, you pushing the same agenda is #notagoodlook

 

Also you've basically been married to that AJ scumread for quite a while now, whereas if anything recently his play strongly suggests town to me. That is also #notagoodlook.

 

And this is nitpicking, but the last bit looks like more of what I just pointed out- you trying to shirk responsibility for your reads with the good ol "But I'm tired right now so prob wrong" thing

 

 

Re: Hallia. 

 

I find it interesting you still think she soft claimed a role. Are there ANY roles that can get that information? During the first day?

 

I think it's more looking at role PM. 

 

You are an experienced player, I would almost expect you to catch that.

 

Unless your PM doesn't match the rest of town, y'know. 

[hazelkrs1]

Pgs 21-40 (might end up being broken up into two parts):

 

 

 

 

 

Don't think Vos is popping back in soon. I'm fading fast.

Csarmi you still think I'm scum?

 

yea

 

 

But I'll revise my reads on the next read-through. It's not like I can't be wrong.

 

Wanna see what the others have to say - and trying to spend the weekend resting. Having a wretched day so far.

 

 

Right before this Csarmi was appealing to me about Tommy. I ask him if he still thinks I'm scum, he says yes.... but then later clarifies that he wanted to analyze what I said about Tommy to be able to read him better

 

But uhhhhhh I had this giant spat with Tommy just a few pages earlier. Why in the world would town!Csarmi think he could gauge me better by getting my feelings on Tommy when he himself was helping to instigate that earlier fight between us?

 

Looks like he was trying to get the fight going again or something

 

 

 

Des, what do you think about the things I listed versus Tommy? You have a lot more experience with playing with him. What does your gut say about him (forget about the claim for now).

Tnt I don't really see the point in debating Tommy's alignment at this point. He claimed, and Hallia couched for him. Would be much more productive to pressure someone else imo.

If he's scum, his particular claim sort of has him roped in a bit.

 

 

I'm not pressuring him... I'm interested in your thoughts - cause they could be of help (especially if you're scum).

 

 

I turned him down, saying that discussing Tommy at that point was pointless and Csarmi soft pushing him looked bad, which made Csarmi reply and say he wasn't pressuring him... which looks reminiscent of earlier when Csarmi clarified that he wasn't fos'ing me for sounding different, just putting out observations

 

 

[unvote]

[v]Salami[/v]

Hey Salami good news! You get to now tell me calmly and rationally why you're not the best lynch for today and who is. "Gut feels" and greater than signs without explanation aren't gonna cut it anymore I'm afraid!

[unvote]

[V]Salami[/v]

I'm not playing your game. Do whatever you will.

 

 

 

 

Self-vote already?

Real emo, fake emo, or do you just not care to help town win?

Just a strong statement that I'm not gonna play Captain Tom's games.

Tom, you can lead town if you will. You can lynch me. You can make me follow your lead.

But you will NOT tell me how to play.

Now if you wanna lynch me be my guest. You got my vote.

 

 

Anyone remember this? This whole thing looked weird at the time, and in retrospect looks fake. Tommy wasn't trying to force Salami into playing a certain way, he was basically just urging him to express himself more clearly on his reads

 

Csarmi's reaction looks completely off here

 

 

That's not a very gutsy read- quite a few other people have me as town so far. Also looks like you could be buddying or soft-white knighting me.

Also kinda wish I hadn't deleted the other part of this post- Csarmi's post to Thane looked like it coulda been a scumnate coaching or interacting with a teammate on thread. Could def see Csarmi/Thane as scum/scum as well.

 

ok Des, i'll give you that. People have read you town, but you had a lot of votes already as well. And from my experience in mafia games, i'm not surprised people get a scumread on me. Happens all games. This time though, i'll try to be constructive about it and try to stay active (as much as RL lets me) FTR; I don't think Csarms is town...

 

 

Just wanted to point out here that apparently Thane hadn't caught Csarmi's PR hint yet

 

About Arsis vs AJ. I liked Arsis points. AJ came off bad to me.

About whom to lynch.

I wouldn't touch Tommy, Hally, Dice and Vos for now. Arsis neither.

Despo is scum I believe look up my vote with that quote. That sort of fishing never comes from a town!Despo mouth.

Thane is sketchy. Wanna give him time acclimatise tho. He has great instincts as town.

Dislike AJ but I'd pass on him for now. Not confident at reading him. I'd ask BFG.

 

 

This post was bad in general but specifically keep the bolded in mind

 

 

 

My thoughts on how to read Tommy are pretty much irrelevant right now. We already got into a huge spat, may have just been committing town on town, and regardless he's claimed. Claimed a fairly specific claim that someone else corroberated.

Spending any time talking about Tommy right now and whether and how he could be scum is completely counter-productive. I agree with Tommy here- you're tinfoiling on him is kinda scummy. You could be trying to derail discussion back to crap that don't matter, maybe even in an attempt to rustle his jimmies.

Sorry for quoting the whole stuff but I'm from phone. My point is that I'd like to read YOU. Build up a map on how your thought process went this game. Maybe I'll realize its not a scum one. If you help me.

 

 

So wait moments before Csarmi basically was sure I was scum "That sort of fishing never comes from a town!Des mouth", but then is trying to make sure he's right about me...

 

 

Salami all I want is some exposition and explanation -- with the keywords bolded in blue above -- and your reaction is to rage vote yourself and tell me you won't let me lead town. What am I supposed to do? Agree?

"Thanks for the self vote of petulance, you're absolutely right, I'll look elsewhere!"

Actually I'm saying you can lead town. I just won't play how you want me to.

Now you were saying?

---

Oh yea why am I not a good lynch. Cause I'm town. You wanna lynch scum. Like, say, Despo.

 

 

Spoken like a true scummer that forgot how they were supposed to be handling their top scum read

 

Yes Tommy. I won't play the way you want me to. I won't give out forced reads that I don't have or make up explanations for what I feel.

IS
THAT
GONNA
BE
A
PROBLEM
FOR
YOU
???

 

Back to Csarmi's reaction to Tommy- I just don't at all Csarmi's stance here. It is neither uncommon or unusual or jerk-like to ask someone to explain their reads better, yet Csarmi is all raging like Tommy is hitting all his buttons

 

Doesn't add up, looks fake to me

 

 

Lol I ninjad both people as they were already answering what I was about to ask



So Vos. You seem... annoyed that the game is already so full in swing while some still haven't gotten fully submersed.

Why? Isn't it a good thing for town to get things going in a hurry?

 

Is the game in full swing? Must have missed that, I've just read that you and Tommy had a pissing contest and now Tommy is caps-locking his townness, everyone is reaching at straws because since Tommy started going after you then we must assume we are in "FULL GAME MODE". Fact is, beforementioned aside - we're still extremely early in the game, and a lot of people haven't said anything (of value). We would still be posting spiderman-pics at this point. Yet still alot of players are starting flinging shit at people like Thanos who are catching up and finding nothing tangible. 

 

The game has barely started. Now that quarrels have been settled and egos to some extent have calmed down - there isn't all that much to grasp onto.

 

 

AJ? from what i've seen, he's trying hard to look town. Either he is,or he's faking it. Also gets frustrated at the two possible PR's being outed, but seeing it happens after Des, i don't know if it's genuine or if he's copying for credit... he's one to look out for, imo

 

Momentarily during reread I thought I might have seen a Vos/Thane collusion going on (Vos was suspecting AJ before this, and soft defended Thane with bolded) buuuuuuuut

 

 

 

AJ? from what i've seen, he's trying hard to look town. Either he is,or he's faking it. Also gets frustrated at the two possible PR's being outed, but seeing it happens after Des, i don't know if it's genuine or if he's copying for credit... he's one to look out for, imo

Someone else: So Thane, what you think of ________
Thane: well, I think ________ is town. But he could be faking it.

Wash, rinse, and repeat.

 

 

As I just said - I sympathize with Thanes lack of anything tangible to hold onto. And trying to sort through the spam. But I'm starting to agree with you here. It's all a bit TOO wishywashy now. Not just null either. I could actually understand "everyone is null". But this whole "Yeah, he has done this, but then done this, and I can get this, so he is either this, or if not - then that" seems evasive. 

 

This followup by Vos does seem to make that unlikely. And since Thane is looking more town on reread and Vos scummier, well that fits my current thoughts about the game

 

[hazelkrs1]

Pgs 21-40 pt 2:

 

 

 

Back at the beginning.

Krak vote for Tommy out of the gate to "get rid of that wifom" is scummy. Tommy can be great scumhunter for town, so why want to get rid of him ASAP?

Len's nonchalance looks like town bc he usually tries at least a little to look involved as scum.

 

Other people pointed this out I believe but yeah Key townreads Lenlo here based on very little, and when she hadn't yet commented on a lot of other players

 

I'm extremely hungover and just got back from sweating alcohol out my pores at the rock gym.  Life is good, life is good.

 

Tommy - LOCKTOWN.  Not sure if I believe your cop claim and acting like nobody can question it is bad play, especially if you really are town.  Play so far hasn't been bullying IMO, but been rough.  As for town leading, DM mafia is more than happy to have town lead and follow that, but not if the person says "follow me and all my plans and don't even dare question me or you're scum." 

Loses some locktown status for not pointing out some other obvious scumclaims from Des, but I'll forgive him because you can only beat a dying horse so dead.  My tinfoil helmet says that could be early Kivam's gambit, but my gut says no. 

 

Des - Scum.  Catching up the one thing I noticed from Des wasn't the bad logic (not a scum or towntell from Des, that's just Des) or the emorage, it was the fact that everytime Tommy said something like, "You're acting like scum because as town you would do actionX" Des would suddenly do actionX a couple posts later, e.g. voting, etc.  There was something else that was a obv scumslip, but I need to go back and find it. 

EDIT: Oh yeah, Des' comment about how "CSarmi always acts like this as town, but *maybe* this game he is doing it as scum.  Watching him!" was just gross.

 

AJ - I feel like AJ is being cagey so far, which doesn't really tell me scum or town.  I'll give him town points for his reaction to Des/Tommy because he seemed like annoyed town over wasting gametime and info on what he viewed as a waste.

 

Thane - Play is similar to what I've seen from townThane in previous games.  Not interested in lynching him at this point.

 

CS - Townlean.  Normally CS scumhunting is more like data analysis.  And the emo thing was mentioned already.

 

Dice, Key - They said things.  Don't remember what.

 

And for Arsis.

 

Arsis - Arsis was almost my #1 LockTown all game until he said he was replacing out........and then kept posting.  If he actually PM'd the mod about replacing out then he is out.  Stop posting.  If that was a lie, then it is a 100% fake emorage and Arsis is tops of my scum pile.  Is Arsis in or out?

 

[v]Des[/v]

 

Overall don't like this post from TG. He says Tommy is LOCKTOWN but then proceeds to question his behavior and even says he loses some locktown status. He chainsaw defends Csarmi when attacking me. Townreads Csarmi as well. And last bit looks important as well- he says if Arsis isn't actually subbing out then he'll (Arsis) be at the top of TG's scumpile.

 

And yet...

 

According to latest VC Arsis is still in.  Which means him claiming to replace out was a fake meltdown.  Arsis is #lockscum also in that case.

 

After instantly confirming that Arsis hasn't left, TG doesn't move his vote to Arsis. Not necessarily that big a deal but soon after...

 

 

@tg, pral asked me nicely not to sub out. So, I'm going to stay in.

I know it looks bad. :/

 

It does, and it puts you in my scumpile.  Especially considering the position that you were in with starting to catch heat.  Des is in my scum pile too and was putting heat on you, but it looks to me more like scumspew the way Des did it.  AJ doing it was more organic.

 

 

So now Arsis is just "in" TG's scumpile instead of being at the top. Makes it look like TG was posturing before.

 

Also ftr I started pushing Arsis before TG did. But everything I do in this game TG describes as spew of some kind.

 

 

Vos - I know you chimed in about Des/Tommy before, right?  Remind me what you said, was it that you thought it was town/town?

 

Yep. 

 

Starting with the self-doubt though, because isolated Des is looking bad. But the whole exchange looked like town-violence. Possible one of them is scum, and for a while there, it was about ego - not alignment. 

 

 

Vos looking worse here with how he backtracks on his townread of me

 

Additionally the way TG prompts him def looks like this could be a wolf/wolf interaction on thread.

 

 

 

AJ sumary:

 

Strange going after Csarmi and Darthe. Gets cranky when Csarmi doesn't "play the game". FOS's Des but then goes on to protect/buddy. Votes (quite randomly?) Darthe. Tries to take the "town leader" role. Blantantly (and irritatingly) attacks Csarmi with the whole "get on my level" (pfft). Being very submissive when communicating with Tommy. 

 

I dunno. We're like 24 hours into the game and most people haven't said more than hullo. But from the pile, this is the thickest straw

 

[v]AJ[/v]

 

Explain to me how any of these are actually scummy.

 

You can use quotes of mine for examples too.

 

 

Hey, I'm being very clear here I'm reaching at straws here. None of these are very scummy pulled apart - but as a broad view of your play you were the one who stuck out. 

 

 

Again Vos ditches responsibility for his read

 

 

 

Hey Vos, why (if still) do you find Des town?  Refer to post a few above.

 
As I said I'm a bit at loss, because I'm reading Des VS Tommy as a town town fight, but isolated Des is looking scummy. But gaining distance from the whole thing I'm starting to lean that the beforementioned spat was non-alignment-indicative and was just ego vs. ego and leaning scum on Des. 
 
If that was an awkward sentence: 
 
I thought he was town based on him VS tommy
now I think he is scum.

Idk how anyone could think Des looked more like town when he was thunderdoming with Tom compared to "isolated" Des.


But really what I'm asking for isn't a timeline of your read on Des, but why you have that read.


What was it about isolated Des that makes him look worse than when he wasn't scum hunting or gamesolving?

 

 

Saw one or two posts from Krak earlier that seemed somewhat townish, but this one right here screamed town. The way he continues following up in his push on Vos looks like genuine scumhunting to me

 

 

Slightly more serious, it's mainly tone read, combined with what others have already put it more eloquently.

Would you mind showing me?

 

 

Again, Vos basically ditches responsibility for the read, saying others said it better than him, and again Krak doesn't let up in his pressure. Krak looking very townie here.

 

My only thoughts regarding most of this activity is town violence. I see Lenlo and Darthe lurking super hard along with key (though there was an excellent post regarding, so moot). I find it interesting TGlems can stop in, make a post/vote and the lynch wagon takes off..../much ponder 

 

I'm just not convinced of Depsot's scummyness, but I have no interest in a no lynch.  His spaz reaction regarding Tommy and Hallia (alleged PR outing) was not scummy.

 

I like reading the posts and rereading the thread seeing each post as town and again as scum (the poster that is). Changes the flavor.  

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Lenlo[/v]

 

DT the first vote on Lenlo, and doesn't in any way look like a bus vote- I'm locking DT in as town

 

 

You have no interest in a no lynch and yet you vote Lenlo?

What's your problem with a Lenlo lynch??

 

 

 

I don't have a good reason to lynch him atm.

 

Right as soon as Krak starts looking good he questions the Lenlo lynch lol. Because of this I can't lock Krak in as town

 

 

 

I don't have a good reason to lynch him atm.

He's Lenlo.

+2 Internets for you

I'm not lynching Lenlo D1. He usually shows his colours D2, D3 at last. He gets tired of keeping up a good façade as Mafia.

 

 

Blech. Csarmi locked in as scum or me.

 

 

TLDR: Don't have time for a good summary, but Vos looking a lot worse, Thane looking better, Krak looking good, TG looking bad, DT is LOCK CLEAR, and Csarmi is LOCK SCUM

[hazelkrs1]

Aorn my top candidates for scum at Csarmi, Vos, Kates, and TG and woooooow that last post from Vos is sliiiiiimy

 

Anyways, will try and finish my re-read when I get home

[csarmi]

Well I'm a simple vanilla town. You're welcome to lynch me or vig me.

[csarmi]

Despo don't you think the lynch push on Len clears TG?

[Tommyrod]

Well I'm a simple vanilla town. You're welcome to lynch me or vig me.

 

Dude you claim this when day starts not at night

 

Don't you know this

[hazelkrs1]

....

 

So the PR hinting earlier was ... what?

 

You claiming scum?