Andor and the Children of the Light

[MCauthon]

in the lord of chaos

 

 

Morgase has made a deal with Pedron Niall about the fate of andor, does the deal still stand's?

Morgase was the queen while the pack was made, theres nothing illigeal about it, so i wonder is galad gonna come to anodr with the Children of the Light, after all they have a contract...

is it even ralevnce or galad gonna ignore it?

[rd2000]

No pact made under duress is binding

[isleofjib]

if i remember the sequence of events correctly, morgase was not queen when the deal was made. as they are leaving caemlyn and before they get to amidicia, she renounces the throne. so she was not in a position to make that kind of agreement. also, it could definitely be alleged the deal was made under duress, but that would be hard to prove. and last, with the whitecloaks in disarray, the leader who made the agreement and his successor dead and her son now in charge it's highly unlikely anyone in the whitecloaks would try to enforce it-if anyone even knows of it at this point. it isn't like the transition of power was peaceful and thought out. :)

[Guest cwestervelt]

if i remember the sequence of events correctly' date=' morgase was not queen when the deal was made. as they are leaving caemlyn and before they get to amidicia, she renounces the throne. so she was not in a position to make that kind of agreement. also, it could definitely be alleged the deal was made under duress, but that would be hard to prove. and last, with the whitecloaks in disarray, the leader who made the agreement and his successor dead and her son now in charge it's highly unlikely anyone in the whitecloaks would try to enforce it-if anyone even knows of it at this point. it isn't like the transition of power was peaceful and thought out. :)[/quote']

 

Morgase abdicates immediately after her she becomes a "guest" of Suroth rather than a just a "guest" of the Whitecloaks.

[MCauthon]

if i remember the sequence of events correctly' date=' morgase was not queen when the deal was made. as they are leaving caemlyn and before they get to amidicia, she renounces the throne. so she was not in a position to make that kind of agreement. also, it could definitely be alleged the deal was made under duress, but that would be hard to prove. and last, with the whitecloaks in disarray, the leader who made the agreement and his successor dead and her son now in charge it's highly unlikely anyone in the whitecloaks would try to enforce it-if anyone even knows of it at this point. it isn't like the transition of power was peaceful and thought out. :)[/quote']

 

a.she was a queen, so she could have done it.

b.she wasnt forced, she did it on her free will.

c. morgase aint Galad mother :/

d. i think (not sure at all) the Galad loyaltiy to the whiteclocks come first.

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

Morgase was very much queen when she agreed to that "pact." We don't really know what happened to the agreement after that, or who among the Whitecloaks knew about it before Niall died.

 

In the prologue of CoT, Valda is reflecting on the fact that with Morgase dead, their foothold into Andor is gone and Galad has no more use besides being an officer. So at that point, for whatever reason, he considers the pact as having dissolved.

 

Of course, we know Morgase isn't really dead, and by the time she is rediscovered she will have to admit that she is no longer queen, so we'll have to see how that affects the Children's plans. If anyone who knew of it in the CotL is still alive.

 

Balwer probably knows, but it seems unlikely he would try to enforce it, even if he was somehow in a position to. It seems like Asunawa would know of it, too...

[Guest cwestervelt]

The treaty would be valid because Morgase did not actually sign it under pressure or coercion from Niall. The event that eventually made her sign had no connection to her other than the fact that she witnessed it happenning. It was not intended as a message or warning to her and can not be seen as a cause for duress.

 

Morgase signed after Paitr Conel and associates were hung as Darkfriends. Paitr a, known Darkfriend since The Eye of the World, was executed solely for that reason. Morgase took the execution to be a new tactic of Niall. She thinks Niall's surprise at her decision to sign the treaty was feigned, but it was almost guaranteed to have been real. The Whitecloaks that arrested Paitr were not even aware of his connection to Morgase. Assunawa himself, in his own PoV, discounts any connection between Paitr and Morgase.

 

Lord of Chaos Chapter 31 Red Wax, Page 442

Frowning, Asunawa drummed his fingers on the gilded arm of his chair. Above his head, the shephard's crook was worked in brilliant lacquer on a pure white disc. "The witch [Morgase] was taken aback," he murmured.

 

Saren answered as though it was an accusation. "Some people are affected that way be a hanging. The Darkfriends were rounded up yesterday; I'm told they were chanting some catechism to the Shadow when Trom broke down the door. I checked, but no one thought to ask if they had any connection to her." At least he did not shift his feet; he stood as straight as any Hand of the Light should.

 

Asunawa dismissed explanations with a slight wave of his hand. Of course there was no connection, aside from the fact that she was a witch and they Darkfriends. The witch was in the Fortress of the Light, after all. Still, he was troubled.

[isleofjib]

sorry for getting the point where she abdicated wrong. my bad. as cwest pointed out, it would be hard to make a case for duress. certainly, morgase would have felt it since she's a prisoner in all but name and in her mind, she was led to that hanging to put pressure on her by making her think her hope for escape was now gone. but it wasn't the whitecloaks intention, soooo...

 

yes, i know morgase is not his real mom, but from his own PoV, he certainly seems to hold her as such (or nearly as such)-that was my point. and it sure doesn't seem likely he'd march the whitecloaks in there to keep their part of the bargain no matter if it's morgase or elayne (and he'd been even less likely in my opinion to do it to elayne).

[RobertAlexWillis]

Given that Galad is now the Lord Captain Commander, and that he apparently has no idea that such a bargain was made, its likely a moot point now.

 

Also, whether Morgase made it "willingly" or not, Elayne will doubtless claim she was under duress if some Whitecloaks try to bring it up.

 

Also, the Children are currently decimated, numbers-wise, and are likely to be more so after the Last Battle. I doubt that they will have the manpower to worry about it.

 

And finally, the deal was abrogated because the Children did not restore Morgase to the throne.