Thoughts on One Power strength levels and exhaustion and linking (math intensive)

[Craig Jarvis]

Are you talking about Radians and radial math? After re-reading with a specific look towards just what sort of metric was mentioned in the loss (percieved or otherwise). It just doesn't say. But it does seem that it could not be a percentage.

 

Example: Someone with a power of 100 (these are just fictional numebrs not dealing with my charts you see) and someone with a power of 50. Both get 60% of their power. the total result would be 90. They would be Less powerful in a link. So it has to be a fixed amount of loss, Else something hinky like, the person who established the link gets 100%, and everyone else gets 60%... but that means the learder would exhaust themselves first. So if it is a fixed amount, say ten points (using these simplified numbers) per participant then the total would be 130. Which wouldn't be a complete add, but rather an add with an overhead.. So how to calculate this in, without it being rediculous, and overly complicated. I would think that in order to link you would have to be strong enough to reliably grasp the OP (unlike Morgase PL1), but obviously, a PL2 can contribute (Moiraine post-'Finn dealing with the Calendor theory which most everyone believes now that the book cover is out), So I think that the cost would be the first PL or maybe the first 2 PLs, That would make the cost seem almost negligable for higher power people in a circle tho unless you wanted to say it is a percentage of their PL, but taken off the bottom and not the top. Some of this "lost power may go to making the weaves more "dense", and some of this lost power would be used as a buffer to protect the participants. Toss in a male and the circle would overlay the female circle. Not only would it seem like there was no real gain in power but the flows would be very solid, almost un cutably so.. That would support the preference for keeping male/femail circles as close to balanced as possible...

 

Some of this may just have to be chaulked up to literary freedom.

[Mhaliah]

Did anyone look at those eqations I proposed? Let me know what you think.

[Craig Jarvis]

@Mhaliah

 

Take the example of 3 PL3 females and a PL4 female in a circle with this formula and try to make them powerful enough to use a gateway (between PL7 and PL8).

 

write out that formula and solve then take what you use for the F variable and try to use it in a different example from the books and see what you get. Let us know... because until we get a working formula for this conundrum we are kinda stuck.

[AquilaInfernus]

I think you might be right with the set value regarding linking. I just recalled Nyneave's thoughts regarding repairing stilling and a couple of things from the AMoL spoilers. Linking requires a bridge of Power between individuals, and this is how Nyn and I presume Flinn(?) heal stilling. Since the bridge is always made of the channelers' native power there is always loss, much the way Siuan and Leane are left weaker when healed. If the bridge is of the opposite power there is less loss as Logain and Rand's healed sisters attest. A circle of men and women would therefore suffer less loss than a single sex circle.

 

I haven't seen the formulae you're working with so I'm a bit at sea.

[Charlz Guybon]

I would think that each level is 1/8th stronger than the next.

 

For example, since she's the weakest channeler possible lets make Moragase = 1, Lanfear at level 21 would be 10.545. Rand at level 25 would be a 16.891.

 

13 of the weakest Aes Sedai (1.424) = 18.512  Thus they could take him, while 13 of those only strong enough for the ring (1.266 x 13 = 16.458) would have problems.

 

If the linear growth is increased even a little, say to 1/7th, than Rand is a 24.649 and would crush the 13th strongest Aes Sedai (13*1.493=19.409)

 

However, if the growth slows to just 1/9th Rand is only 12.537 and it would only take 10 of the weakest Aes Sedai (1.372) Aes Sedai to exceed him.

 

Level 21 – 10.545
Lanfear
Level 20 – 9.373
Cyndane, Alivia
Level 19 – 8.332
Graendal, Sharina
Level 18 – 7.406
Nynaeve, Semirhage, Talaan
Level 17 – 6.583
Mesaana, Someryn (minimum)
Level 16 – 5.852
Moghedien, Tamela, Viendre
Level 15 – 5.202
Aviendha, Egwene, Elayne, Metarra
Level 14 – 4.624
Bode, Cadsuane
Level 13 – 4.11
Kerene, Meilyn, Nicola (minimum), Therava (minimum)

Level 12 – 3.653
Elaida, Elle, Garenia/Zarya, Janacy/Jancy, Lelaine, Moiraine, Rainyn, Romanda, Siuan (old)
MINIMUM LEVEL TO USE CHOEDAN KAL
Level 11 – 3.247
Amys (minimum), Cetalia, Kirstian, Larelle, Leane (old), Merean, Merise, Naime, Pevara, Reanne, Rysael, Saerin, Sheriam, Theodrin, Yukiri
Level 10 – 2.887
Anaiya, Beonin, Bera, Caire, Carlinya, Coiren, Desandre, Faolain, Felaana, Galina, Joline, Katerine (minimum), Kiruna, Kwamesa, Lemai, Maigan, Melaine, Morvrin, Myrelle, Nesune, Silviana, Talene, Tebreille, Teslyn
Level 9 – 2.566
Delana, Doesine, Edarra (minimum), Faeldrin, Gabrelle, Liandrin, Leyn (minimum), Masuri, Narenwhin, Rafela, Renaile, Seaine, Shalon (minimum), Sumeko, Tarna, Toveine
Level 8 – 2.281
Alanna, Alviarin (minimum), Chanelle, Covarla, Dorile, Duhara, Eldrith, Falion, Ispan, Julanya, Keraille, Kurin, Meidani (minimum), Merana, Senine, Seonid, Verin
MINIMUM LEVEL TO TRAVEL
Level 7 – 2.027
Aeldene, Asne, Chesmal, Demira, Elza, Lusonia (minimum), Marillin, Merilille, Tialin
Level 6 – 1.802
Adeleas, Kairen, Micarra, Sareitha, Temaile, Turanna, Valinde, Vandene, Vasha (minimum), Zerah
Level 5 – 1.602
Aiden, Akarrin, Berenicia, Berowin, Cabriana, Careane, Kumira, Leane (new), Hattori (maximum), Jamilila, Nalasia, Siuan (new), Teramina, Therva, Zemaille,
Level 4 – 1.424
Daigian, Monaelle, Nisain, Reiko, Shana
CURRENT MINIMUM LEVEL FOR BECOMING AES SEDAI
Level 3 – 1.266
Sarainya
MINIMUM LEVEL FOR BECOMING ACCEPTED
Level 2 – 1.125
Alise, Asra, Caiden, Kumiko, Sorilea
Level 1 - 1
Morgase


 

 

[Craig Jarvis]

That's is a well thought out system.  The one thing I am trying to do tho is establish a relationship between the seeming J-curve in power levels, while also establishing a relationship to the channeling endurance.  Logain is "nearly" as strong as Rand, according to the text, but in actual practice is not capable of producing deathgates "nearly" as large as Rand... rather, they are "quite a bit smaller".  among other things... for just one or two notches lower than rand to yield than much of a difference there has to be an exponential difference (e.g. x^3-X^2).  What you are doing is a compounding...  which is better than a linear growth, and gives a "non-handwavey" explaination to the circle of thirteen scenario... But doesn't give the difference in channeling endurance...  can you try to flesh that out as you see it?...

 

Otherwise great post and well thought out!  I may come to like it if you can help me see the relationship between powerlevels and endurance.

 

I wish they would have given us the translation for angreal, sa'angreal, and ter'angreal.  Like cadin'sor means work clothes in the OT.  but to the Aiel they are a uniform of honor.

 

Love the post tho man great thought there

[Charlz Guybon]

That's is a well thought out system.  The one thing I am trying to do tho is establish a relationship between the seeming J-curve in power levels, while also establishing a relationship to the channeling endurance.  Logain is "nearly" as strong as Rand, according to the text, but in actual practice is not capable of producing deathgates "nearly" as large as Rand..

Endurance isn't really a term used. The difference could be due to differing strengths in the five elements. Rand is very strong in all of them, Logain, while I'm sure he'd be considered stronger than average in all of them, may not be very strong in one the of the elements needed to work. Then there is dexterity (a term that is used), Logain may simply not be able to weave as deftly as Rand.

 

By the way, under this system angreal really are powerful. In TPOD the amber turtle lets Elayne hold twice as much Saidar as Nyneave (though Nynaeve hadn't reached her peak yet). So around 13 on that scale, stronger than Lanfear and about 2.5 times Elayne's strength.

[Craig Jarvis]

nice... I will have to go through your system+ my list of angreal (with power boost descriptions) and see how it jives... boy but I really wanted a visual representation...  Perhaps just skill and 5-power affinity are all that matters in endurance.

 

a gymnist would get worn out hauling 200 bls weights, and I guess a championship lifter would have endurance problems doing a triple sow-cow (both of which you should not call a woman if within arm's reach)... so I can see that may be all there is.

 

 

Alot of this comes from trying to visualize the special effects that would be needed to do this series on screen.

 

For men it would just be a subtle warp in space around them, but women would get all lighty and puffy with power.  The different power threads would be different colors for women, and for men the different powers would be different bump-map textures used in the warp pattern (pebbly for earth, whisp curls for air, sinious textures for water, and a jagged texture for fire, flat and smooth for spirit.  As men do not sense othe male flows visually but rather a mental sensing.