The major match ups

[myth87]

We have seen the build up of many confrontations throughout the series. I am curious to hear everyone's thought on who will fight whom, who will win, and how.

 

For example, Rand and Mordin have a confrontation coming obviously. I think Rand will face him alone and will over power him since he is Rand (LTT) but will stop shy of killing him cause that is not his way now. Taking advantage of his mercy Mordin will strike out randomly and wound Rands side and cause his non healing wound to open. Rand will bleed out and die and the DO's forces will seem to win. Then Rand will come back (its gonna happen) and save the day. Or something very close to that

 

Something like that and there are more than just Rand and Mordin. Who takes Demandred? Does Nynaeve eventually defeat Moghedien? Lanfer and Moiraine? etc.

[Jon Storme]

We have seen the build up of many confrontations throughout the series. I am curious to hear everyone's thought on who will fight whom, who will win, and how.

 

For example, Rand and Mordin have a confrontation coming obviously. I think Rand will face him alone and will over power him since he is Rand (LTT) but will stop shy of killing him cause that is not his way now. Taking advantage of his mercy Mordin will strike out randomly and wound Rands side and cause his non healing wound to open. Rand will bleed out and die and the DO's forces will seem to win. Then Rand will come back (its gonna happen) and save the day. Or something very close to that

 

Something like that and there are more than just Rand and Mordin. Who takes Demandred? Does Nynaeve eventually defeat Moghedien? Lanfer and Moiraine? etc.

 

I think Rand and Moridin are definitely going to fight it out but I disagree about Rand dying then. I think Moridin will wound Rand and that will be his blood staining the rocks of Shayol Ghul. However, I think Rand will constrain Moridin in some way so that he has to watch the victory of the Light over the DO. I think we are going to see a few beloved characters get killed.

 

I think it would be too easy to assume that it will work out as Aes Sedai vs The Forsaken. I wouldn't be surprised if some of The Forsaken survive. I am mostly interested to see what will happen with Lan....and we musn't forget that there is a big confrontation coming between Rand and Egwene about his intention to break the Cuendillar seals.

 

Also, I cannot wait to see what happens with Mazrim Taim. Personally I think it will be Logain who deals with him as I think that would be very fitting. No matter what happens, I am sort of dreading the FINAL book in the series. Even though we'll always have the books, it will be like saying goodbye to a very old friend.

[myth87]

I agree about Lan. He is one of my favorite characters and I want him to do something totally epic. I think he will take one of the Forsaken or SH. The Rand Egwene thing doesnt really appeal to me personally and I dont think it will be as big as we all expect. I think everyone wants Taim to get whooped and the most likely to do it is Logain, another of my favorites.

[MasterAblar]

I agree about Lan. He is one of my favorite characters and I want him to do something totally epic. I think he will take one of the Forsaken or SH.

 

And how precisely will he manage that?

 

I'm all in for Logain vs Taim. I want something between Rand and Demandred too. So much hate there, and not necessarily one sided, it'll be explosive. Moghedien and Nyneave have a little reunion, sure. There's not really anyone for Egwene though. Whether in TAR or in the waking world, she's no match for Moghedien or Lanfear. She can have fun blasting the Black Ajah to smitherings though. If Greadal's still around someone will have to take her out, though I don't know who. Maybe Alivia. As for Moridin, he's all for Rand. No one else even stands the shadow of a chance against him. And Perrin vs Slayer of course.

 

That still leaves Padan Fain and Shaidar Haran though. I sort of want Perrin to take out Fain, but I just don't see how he could manage it. As for Shaidar Haran, he gets trampled by a stampede of ogier. Then Olver finishes him off.

[Eht Slat Meit]

I'm speculating the match-ups something like this:

 

White Tower vs Seanchan

 

Rand vs Moridin

Strike Team Rand (Cadsuane, Moiraine, Aiel Wise Ones) vs Cour'souvra Team Moridin (Graendal, Moghedien, Lanfear)

Fain for the interference

 

Perrin vs Slayer

Team Broken Wolf and the Children vs the Blight Brigade

 

Mat vs Demandred

Seanchan vs Demandred's Armies

 

Lan and Nynaeve + Lan's Band vs Shaidar Haran and the elite forces of the Blight

 

Logain vs Taim

Black & White Tower vs Dreadlords & Black Ajah

[MasterAblar]

Mat vs Demandred

 

I have a hard time seeing him pull that one off. Especially since Demandred isn't one to take to the frontline.

[Eht Slat Meit]

Mat vs Demandred

 

I have a hard time seeing him pull that one off. Especially since Demandred isn't one to take to the frontline.

 

Of course Demandred isn't going to be at the front line; he's a general not a soldier. However, we are talking about Mat Cauthon here.

 

The same ta'veren who, during the siege on Cairhein by over 160,000 Shaido, and after a successful number of encounters with the Shaido, managed to accidentally stumble into and kill Couladin.

 

I'll point out here that it would be easier for Mat to kill Demandred than Couladin because Demandred can't touch him. Heck, he might not even know it's Demandred he killed. How's that for an ironic death?

[OptimusPrime]

Moiraine vs Graendal. Moiraine learns that Graendal is going to find Alanna through her link to Rand (with help from Shaidar). Moiraine makes Alanna pass her the bond to Rand, and waits.

 

Graendal shows up. "You? Bah, easy meat. You can barely channel!"

 

Moiraine-angreal quickdraw. Graendal-death by balefire.

 

I cant see Moiraine vs Cyndane happening.

[Legion]

Mat vs Demandred

 

I have a hard time seeing him pull that one off. Especially since Demandred isn't one to take to the frontline.

 

Of course Demandred isn't going to be at the front line; he's a general not a soldier. However, we are talking about Mat Cauthon here.

 

The same ta'veren who, during the siege on Cairhein by over 160,000 Shaido, and after a successful number of encounters with the Shaido, managed to accidentally stumble into and kill Couladin.

 

I'll point out here that it would be easier for Mat to kill Demandred than Couladin because Demandred can't touch him. Heck, he might not even know it's Demandred he killed. How's that for an ironic death?

 

(quote TSR ch24 pg 402)

"If I had it my way, I would want those holes filled, but at least answers to my questions might fill some in my future. You have ti answer--!"

"Done." One of the men growled, and Mat blinked. Done? What was done? What did he mean? "Burn your eyes," he muttered. "Burn your souls! You are as bad as Aes Sedai. Well I want a way to be free of Aes Sedai and the Power, and I want to be away from you and back to Rhuidean, if you will not answer me. Open up a door, and let me--"

 

If u mean that because of his medallion, when he asked for it he asked to be free of the Aes Sedai. I'm assuming he meant only females since the male Aes Sedai haven't been around for 3000 years. Plus we have proof in book 5 when the traps of lightning set by Rahvin killed Mat till he was brought back to life due to Rand balefiring Rahvin therefore erasing anything Rahvin has done recently or caused.

 

Based on these facts I do not think Mat will one on one Demandred unless Demandred starts using the power and exhausts himself so he cannot channel anymore and Mat walks in for the easy kill or he just straight up out generals him and the Band takes care of him with the canons assuming he gets them back from Camelyn and Demandred can not escape with a gateway fast enough

[myth87]

Master Ablar I think Egwene will have a match up against either the BA, although that seems more like Elaynes thing since she has continuously hunted them since being given the mission, or the Seanchan.

 

I think Perrin and Slayer are an obvious match up, it has been way to build up and it'll probably go down in TAR.

 

As for SH I know he is supposed to be a major badA but he is still just a Fade and Lan is the most talented swordsman of the age. Plus he does have his army, and you know Nynaeve and Moiraine wont let anything happen to him, although Moiraine will probably be occupied with Lanfer. I think LTT feelings/lust will come through and the way Moiraine saves the world and why Rand needs her is she will finish what she started on the docks. She will beat her down now that they are more evenly matched.

 

Fain Im not sure who will take. He seems to have that whole Gollum thing going on and I think Mat will be busy leading and possibly facing Demandred.

 

I do think Nynaeve and Moghedien will finally have it out for good but I am not sure on Graendal. She looks out for herself before anyone and she is not going to like what SH did to her. There may be a side switch there. Like I said I think Elayne will take Alviarin the leader of the BA. But what about Min and Aviendha and Birgitte and all the rest... its to much...

[MasterAblar]

Of course Demandred isn't going to be at the front line; he's a general not a soldier. However, we are talking about Mat Cauthon here.

 

The same ta'veren who, during the siege on Cairhein by over 160,000 Shaido, and after a successful number of encounters with the Shaido, managed to accidentally stumble into and kill Couladin.

 

I'll point out here that it would be easier for Mat to kill Demandred than Couladin because Demandred can't touch him. Heck, he might not even know it's Demandred he killed. How's that for an ironic death?

 

Couladin was on the front line.

 

Demandred can't touch Mat with the power, but he doesn't need to. All he needs to do is blow up the ground below Mat, and the result is the same: dead Mat. Maybe through some outragously huge taveren luck he could actually get close to Demandred, but there's still no reason for Demandred to get involved personally in the first place. That's not how he does things.

 

If u mean that because of his medallion, when he asked for it he asked to be free of the Aes Sedai. I'm assuming he meant only females since the male Aes Sedai haven't been around for 3000 years.

 

It does work against men. Arangar tried and failed to channel at him. The reason why Rahvin's lightning killed him, is because they were not weaves. It was lightning made by the power, but still just regular lightning which Mat has no protection against.

[Eht Slat Meit]

Couladin was on the front line.

 

Demandred can't touch Mat with the power, but he doesn't need to. All he needs to do is blow up the ground below Mat, and the result is the same: dead Mat. Maybe through some outragously huge taveren luck he could actually get close to Demandred, but there's still no reason for Demandred to get involved personally in the first place. That's not how he does things.

 

If you define "looking for Rand to kill him" as the front lines, you could call it that, but it was a targeted strike, and not the foremost fighting between the Cairheinen and Shaido. That's exactly the sort of thing Demandred might get up to, as there is a distinct parallel between the two men and their severe jealousy/inferiority complex towards Rand/LTT. They both had/have something to prove.

 

Now, as to Demandred and Mat, I'll point out that while the Forsaken has an extreme advantage in Area Effect channeling that can sidestep the Foxhead Defense, that advantage works against him in Proximity. He can't bring lightning down on a man who is closing on him, he can't open up the ground beneath him, because these are effects that he -cannot control-. He could just as easily kill himself alongside Mat.

 

There are alternatives, yes, but remember that Demandred is NOT a Soldier and that is why he got his butt kicked at the battle of Winter's Heart.

[MasterAblar]

If you define "looking for Rand to kill him" as the front lines, you could call it that, but it was a targeted strike, and not the foremost fighting between the Cairheinen and Shaido. That's exactly the sort of thing Demandred might get up to, as there is a distinct parallel between the two men and their severe jealousy/inferiority complex towards Rand/LTT. They both had/have something to prove.

 

I believe Couladin was trying to pierce right through the middle to get to Rand. Whatever the case he went into the fighting yelling for Rand to come fight him, which isn't something Demandred would do. He might go after Rand, but he won't go into the fighting to do so.

 

Now, as to Demandred and Mat, I'll point out that while the Forsaken has an extreme advantage in Area Effect channeling that can sidestep the Foxhead Defense, that advantage works against him in Proximity. He can't bring lightning down on a man who is closing on him, he can't open up the ground beneath him, because these are effects that he -cannot control-. He could just as easily kill himself alongside Mat.

 

There are weaves that keep everything away from the channeller. Rand uses one to protect himself from Osangar in Cairhien. There's no way Mat could get close to Demandred anyway, he would be blasted apart long before he could get within striking distance. Besides, Mat isn't one to fight like a regular soldier either. He's far too important to risk his life in such a way.

 

There are alternatives, yes, but remember that Demandred is NOT a Soldier and that is why he got his butt kicked at the battle of Winter's Heart.

 

Well none of the Forsaken are soldiers actually. For that matter LTT wasn't a soldier either. That doesn't mean they aren't all deadly in combat and don't have experience in it either. Sammael nearly killed Rand. So did Rahvin, and he actually killed Mat too. Lanfear fought Alivia, who is nothing if not a soldier, and came off better, despite all the advantages Alivia had, which incidentally include the same kind of terangreal as Mat's medallion. And unlike Mat, Alivia can channel, and very stronly too.

 

As for the Cleansing, all the Forsaken performed poorly there not just Demandred. Demandred probably faced the strongest cirle too, considering it was lead by an Ashaman. And yet Demandred has gone head to head with LTT in the AoL and survived. He may not like fighting like a regular soldier, but that hardly means he can't be a deadly fighter. He just thinks he's above getting his own hands dirtied on regular people. He's arrogant, not incompetent.

[Jon Storme]

Mat vs Demandred

 

I have a hard time seeing him pull that one off. Especially since Demandred isn't one to take to the frontline.

 

Of course Demandred isn't going to be at the front line; he's a general not a soldier. However, we are talking about Mat Cauthon here.

 

The same ta'veren who, during the siege on Cairhein by over 160,000 Shaido, and after a successful number of encounters with the Shaido, managed to accidentally stumble into and kill Couladin.

 

I'll point out here that it would be easier for Mat to kill Demandred than Couladin because Demandred can't touch him. Heck, he might not even know it's Demandred he killed. How's that for an ironic death?

 

Friend of mine suggested recently that Demandred could be Talmanes. It would make sense as we are told that Demandred is with a large army and Mat isnt with the band anymore. Also, a Cairhienen noble would make a perfect choice for Demandred as it wouldnt appear at all surpiscious then if he was playing the Great Game and acting sneaky like

[MasterAblar]

Mat vs Demandred

 

I have a hard time seeing him pull that one off. Especially since Demandred isn't one to take to the frontline.

 

Of course Demandred isn't going to be at the front line; he's a general not a soldier. However, we are talking about Mat Cauthon here.

 

The same ta'veren who, during the siege on Cairhein by over 160,000 Shaido, and after a successful number of encounters with the Shaido, managed to accidentally stumble into and kill Couladin.

 

I'll point out here that it would be easier for Mat to kill Demandred than Couladin because Demandred can't touch him. Heck, he might not even know it's Demandred he killed. How's that for an ironic death?

 

Friend of mine suggested recently that Demandred could be Talmanes. It would make sense as we are told that Demandred is with a large army and Mat isnt with the band anymore. Also, a Cairhienen noble would make a perfect choice for Demandred as it wouldnt appear at all surpiscious then if he was playing the Great Game and acting sneaky like

 

Nope, Talmanes was on screen in tFoH. Any one shown on screen from EotW to KoD, as well as ToM, can not be Demandred.

[Jon Storme]

Mat vs Demandred

 

I have a hard time seeing him pull that one off. Especially since Demandred isn't one to take to the frontline.

 

Of course Demandred isn't going to be at the front line; he's a general not a soldier. However, we are talking about Mat Cauthon here.

 

The same ta'veren who, during the siege on Cairhein by over 160,000 Shaido, and after a successful number of encounters with the Shaido, managed to accidentally stumble into and kill Couladin.

 

I'll point out here that it would be easier for Mat to kill Demandred than Couladin because Demandred can't touch him. Heck, he might not even know it's Demandred he killed. How's that for an ironic death?

 

Friend of mine suggested recently that Demandred could be Talmanes. It would make sense as we are told that Demandred is with a large army and Mat isnt with the band anymore. Also, a Cairhienen noble would make a perfect choice for Demandred as it wouldnt appear at all surpiscious then if he was playing the Great Game and acting sneaky like

 

Nope, Talmanes was on screen in tFoH. Any one shown on screen from EotW to KoD, as well as ToM, can not be Demandred.

 

Forgive my ignorance please it's been a long time since I read The Fire of Heaven onwards. Why can't anyone in those books be Demandred?

[gloweye]

Back to topic, we'll figure out Demandred when it's out... every theory has been over-explored already.

 

The winners i would prefer in front

 

Logain - Taim

Rand - Morridin

Fain - SH(maybe... torture the DO avatar into obedience!)

Slayer - Fain

Perrin - Slayer

Nyneave - Moghedien

Rand/Mierin/Morraine circle - The Bore

 

And Mat out-generalling Demandred would be fine to, even though I think Demandred would have an initial victory. I hope we see some demandred anyway - I think he can be quite cool...

 

Edit - Corrected typo's

[Eht Slat Meit]

Nope, Talmanes was on screen in tFoH. Any one shown on screen from EotW to KoD, as well as ToM, can not be Demandred.

 

Forgive my ignorance please it's been a long time since I read The Fire of Heaven onwards. Why can't anyone in those books be Demandred?

 

If I recall, there's an old Q&A with Jordan where someone had asked a question about whether we'd seen Demandred in the books yet, and it was indicated that he had not been "on screen" in any persona other than as himself as of KoD. I think Sanderson extended it to ToM?

[MasterAblar]

Mat vs Demandred

 

I have a hard time seeing him pull that one off. Especially since Demandred isn't one to take to the frontline.

 

Of course Demandred isn't going to be at the front line; he's a general not a soldier. However, we are talking about Mat Cauthon here.

 

The same ta'veren who, during the siege on Cairhein by over 160,000 Shaido, and after a successful number of encounters with the Shaido, managed to accidentally stumble into and kill Couladin.

 

I'll point out here that it would be easier for Mat to kill Demandred than Couladin because Demandred can't touch him. Heck, he might not even know it's Demandred he killed. How's that for an ironic death?

 

Friend of mine suggested recently that Demandred could be Talmanes. It would make sense as we are told that Demandred is with a large army and Mat isnt with the band anymore. Also, a Cairhienen noble would make a perfect choice for Demandred as it wouldnt appear at all surpiscious then if he was playing the Great Game and acting sneaky like

 

Nope, Talmanes was on screen in tFoH. Any one shown on screen from EotW to KoD, as well as ToM, can not be Demandred.

 

Forgive my ignorance please it's been a long time since I read The Fire of Heaven onwards. Why can't anyone in those books be Demandred?

 

Because RJ said so. And Brandon for ToM.

 

Nope, Talmanes was on screen in tFoH. Any one shown on screen from EotW to KoD, as well as ToM, can not be Demandred.

 

Forgive my ignorance please it's been a long time since I read The Fire of Heaven onwards. Why can't anyone in those books be Demandred?

 

If I recall, there's an old Q&A with Jordan where someone had asked a question about whether we'd seen Demandred in the books yet, and it was indicated that he had not been "on screen" in any persona other than as himself as of KoD. I think Sanderson extended it to ToM?

 

Yeah, the only book in which Demandred, in disguise, may have been on screen, is tGS. Personally I doubt he was. We've gone over just about everyone even remotely suspicious in the book, and no one fits the bill, so he probably hasn't appeared yet. If he even has a disguise. He prefers to use proxies.

[Jon Storme]

Mat vs Demandred

 

I have a hard time seeing him pull that one off. Especially since Demandred isn't one to take to the frontline.

 

Of course Demandred isn't going to be at the front line; he's a general not a soldier. However, we are talking about Mat Cauthon here.

 

The same ta'veren who, during the siege on Cairhein by over 160,000 Shaido, and after a successful number of encounters with the Shaido, managed to accidentally stumble into and kill Couladin.

 

I'll point out here that it would be easier for Mat to kill Demandred than Couladin because Demandred can't touch him. Heck, he might not even know it's Demandred he killed. How's that for an ironic death?

 

Friend of mine suggested recently that Demandred could be Talmanes. It would make sense as we are told that Demandred is with a large army and Mat isnt with the band anymore. Also, a Cairhienen noble would make a perfect choice for Demandred as it wouldnt appear at all surpiscious then if he was playing the Great Game and acting sneaky like

 

Nope, Talmanes was on screen in tFoH. Any one shown on screen from EotW to KoD, as well as ToM, can not be Demandred.

 

Forgive my ignorance please it's been a long time since I read The Fire of Heaven onwards. Why can't anyone in those books be Demandred?

 

Because RJ said so. And Brandon for ToM.

 

Nope, Talmanes was on screen in tFoH. Any one shown on screen from EotW to KoD, as well as ToM, can not be Demandred.

 

Forgive my ignorance please it's been a long time since I read The Fire of Heaven onwards. Why can't anyone in those books be Demandred?

 

If I recall, there's an old Q&A with Jordan where someone had asked a question about whether we'd seen Demandred in the books yet, and it was indicated that he had not been "on screen" in any persona other than as himself as of KoD. I think Sanderson extended it to ToM?

 

Yeah, the only book in which Demandred, in disguise, may have been on screen, is tGS. Personally I doubt he was. We've gone over just about everyone even remotely suspicious in the book, and no one fits the bill, so he probably hasn't appeared yet. If he even has a disguise. He prefers to use proxies.

 

Oh right fair enough. Thanks

[Aagaard]

I have argued in another thread that it would be Fain that goes up against Shaidar Haran, but if any of the Ta'veren should fight him it should actually be Mat. Don't worry I will elaborate:

 

Shaidar Haran cannot be hurt by channeling. The Gholam could not be hurt by channeling. Mat defeated the gholam. I know it's pretty thin, but I maintain that if not for Fain's ability to kill myyrdraal with his touch instantly (as of ToM prolog) Mat would be the best bid.

 

I am also on board with Mat beating Demandred's armies before some channeller kills Demandred. It could be cool if we see Demandred beat one of the great captains first, maybe Bryne, Agelmar or the poor little wolf with the ruby in his ear. Then it would be really cool if he was beaten by a Mat he relly had underestimated. He might just react by going after Mat himself, not knowing of the foxhead medallion, leaving him open to be killed by whatever channeller that sees the deathweave unravelling on him. Yeah... :-)