tinkers lost song

[Wantanswers]

Sorry, Terez. Why didn't you look it up. They found 2 different ter'angreal. One has to be activated by singing. That the ter'angreal of growing. They found another, that contains hundreds, perhaps thousands song. That one might contain the songs the Tinkers are looking for.

(Sorry, I cannot give you a quote. I only have a dutch edition here, and I hate to re-translate.)

[Terez]

Sorry, Terez. Why didn't you look it up.

Because I didn't need to.

 

They found 2 different ter'angreal. One has to be activated by singing. That the ter'angreal of growing.

That's the one dude mentioned. Go back and actually read what he said.

[Wantanswers]

You are right. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Nevertheless, in my post I referred to that other ter'angreal

[Terez]

You are right. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Nevertheless, in my post I referred to that other ter'angreal

Didn't read your posts. Or at least, I only skimmed them.

[he who comes with a bong]

lol

[Wantanswers]

You are right. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Nevertheless, in my post I referred to that other ter'angreal

Didn't read your posts. Or at least, I only skimmed them.

I assume I'm on your ignorelist.

[Terez]

Not precisely. Your posts are often headache-inducing, but mostly it's just the fact that I hate debates about the Song. Luckers brought my attention to this thread so that I might be amused by it. And I was.

[Luckers]

Alright, I took a look at your full arguments, and all I can do is reiterate. The Song is not the Singing. The Song is a belief based on the original tuatha'an's desire to find the peace and culture they knew in the Age of Legends--a part of which was the Singing, but irrespective of that, rediscovering the Singing would not fulfil this, and indeed might even devestate the tuatha'an--it would be stripping away illusions they have held for thousands of years.

 

The Aiel at Tzora did not 'defend' it. They sacrificed themselves in order to distract a madman and allow the civillians to escape. Even if they utilized the Singing to do so--and there is no evidence to suggest that, no indicaion that Jaric was in anyway restrained, or felt any compulsion other than the mad, childlike focus that is explained entirely by the Taint (note Morr)--but even if the Singing was used, this is not the Song. It is one of the most noble gestures in the series, but that is it.

 

Finally, the BWB states quite simply that Aiel Singing was used for two purposes--Seed Singing, and enhancing an Aes Sedai's channeling. Neither suggest the type of Singing you seem to believe the Aiel to be capable of--nor does their role in society, nor the opinions of the Forsaken and so forth--that sort of power attains notice, and if they used it as you suggest--to restrain Jaric in order to save lives--then why did they not use it in the War to save lives? And if they used it so, why do the Forsaken display not even the slightest respect for the dai'shain to thwart them even passively? In effect, I have read your evidence--the original tuatha'an's statements of 'songs' plural, and the Aiel 'defence' of Tzora, yet neither of these points actually speak of power within the songs beyond precisely what is described and known.

 

The Song does not, and never did exist. The Singing is a function of the Talent of the Voice, and even regained does not speak to what you speak of. But then, I have touched upon all of this in my original thread, and it evidently does not satisfy you. I rather imagine we will have to agree to disagree at this point.

[Wantanswers]

No, and you can't convince me. Loial has the the Voice and he used it to secure Someshta's grave,

he used it when he sang himself a quarterstaff.

Thom Merrilin has the Voice and he used it when they were escaping from the Tower of Ghenjei.

The Aiel have the Voice and they use it when they sing their dirge for the dead.

 

This whole discussion is a matter of semantic and interpretation and I don't think we will ever agree before we get an answer in aMoL. It is even possible, that we are both wrong.

I think it is good that there are two opposite opinions about this issue. Other people can read them both, consider them both, decide which one is most likely or perhaps even develope their own ideas.

[Terez]

This whole discussion is a matter of semantic and interpretation and I don't think we will ever agree before we get an answer in aMoL.

I agree that the distinction is semantic, but precisely because of that you won't get an answer in AMOL.

[Wantanswers]

This whole discussion is a matter of semantic and interpretation and I don't think we will ever agree before we get an answer in aMoL.

I agree that the distinction is semantic, but precisely because of that you won't get an answer in AMOL.

If the Songs are found I have an answer. If the Aiel return to the Way of Leave and merge with the Tuatha'an, singing the songs together I have an answer. If the descendants of the Aiel children, that were kidnapped during the diaspora, return to the Covenant I have an answer.

There will always be an answer. But the answers might be so ambiguous or even obscure, that they will be the seeds for discussions that will last years.

[Malruhn]

I am going to have to back Wantanswers here.

 

With the parallelisms between "real life" and Rand-land, I would be truly amazed if there was no final Song. In Judeo-Christian mythology, there is lost music - the very Song that was used to glorify God before Lucifer (the Light Bringer) was cast down. It was lost, as "officially", only Lucifer knew it, and the knowledge of it was lost. The legends also say that SOME of the other Angels knew it, and taught Adam and Eve - then it was lost about the time the Ark of the Covenant was lost.

 

With all of the other stories of lost music, music of the spheres, and others, it will truly be a let-down if he doesn't have a Song in the last book.

 

It is _MY_ opinion, that in the last chapter, Rand, himself, will sing the Song - reteaching the Tinkers - and the Aiel will hear it and remember it, throw down their spears and take up the Way of the Leaf once again.

 

But - I've been known to be wrong before.