Question about one of the Oathes

[NitroS]

Through out the wheel of time series you see a number of aes sedai using the power as a weapon to force other people to do what they want such as forcing rand into the box with binds of air. For me i would consider this to be using the power as a weapon cause they couldnt have forced him in without it, another example is elaida attacking egwene with weaves of air and i dont know how anyone can determine that not to be using the power as a weapon? doesnt this mean that in a battle they could just do massive air weaves and knock the armies over? what is actually considered using the power as weapon does it mean blasting someone with fire? Even a shield is considered a weapon wouldnt someone being shielded with the power be considered an offensive weapon?

 

If i was to get a stick and punish someone by hitting them with a stick wouldnt that be considered a weapon? yet aes sedai dom it to novices all the time. There are hundreds of examples in the book of aes sedai using the power against people which should all be considered weapons.

 

Also while on the topic at dumais wells one of the sallydar(sp) aes sedai said to rand or perrin the only reason why she came down to the battle was so they could put themselves in danger so they could channel due to the limits of the three oathes, but one of the oathes was already being fulfilled due to over 50 sisters lives being in danger so that whole part doesnt make sense?

[Mats Spare Hat]

On Elaida: Pretty sure she was able to pull that off because in her coo-coo mind she actually, truly, believed Egwene to be a darkfriend.

[herid]

this is never explicitly spelled out but it seems pretty clear that the Aes Sedai equate this with power being used for the purpose of killing someone (directly or indirectly). In general, this is a matter of belief as with all the other oaths. so whatever a particular Aes Sedai believes to be using the power as a weapon that's what counts for that particular Aes Sedai.

By tradition the Aes Sedai don't consider using the power to punish somebody as a weapon so that's all that matters in the case of Elaida doing to Egwene or Erian to Rand.

 

This might be used by the Seanchan in the future. If they somehow convince their Aes Sedai damane that using the power in battle doesn't violate the oaths then those damane will be able to do it - oaths or no oaths. Egwene had a dream in TDR of the Seanchan collaring a long line of Aes Sedai and forcing them to call lightning against the White Tower.

[Justanotherfacet]

I thought it was a matter of perception.

 

If you view your use of the one power not as a weapon to harm somebody but as employing a tool...

 

ie Using the OP as a tool for punishing a disrespectful novice, or as a tool to restrain somebody -not to harm -to achieve a purpose - which the wielder doesn't perceive as harmful.

 

I mean punishing a disrespectful is an aid to better their education or to teach them a "lesson"

 

An exercise in Aes Sedai mental gymnastics =P

[NitroS]

then all aes sedai could just think that the enemy army will die in battle so there better off burning them with fire but not killing them to incapacitate them.... oathes are flawed as we already no with the lie, does anyone have an answer to my question regarding dumais wells?

[Justanotherfacet]

then all aes sedai could just think that the enemy army will die in battle so there better off burning them with fire but not killing them to incapacitate them.... oathes are flawed as we already no with the lie, does anyone have an answer to my question regarding dumais wells?

 

Yeah they could, but try to convince yourself of that...

 

As for the Dumai Wells- I cant really remember the battle that well but im guessing your referring to the use of power as a weapon "except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder or another Aes Sedai" Perhaps they didn't see her sisters as being in that much danger? ie Last extreme defense. I mean Aes Sedai are pretty full of them selves =P

[icspots]

Like others have said the ability to use the power to hurt someone (either to actually inflict injury or just as a chastisement) is completely dependent on the view point of the Aes Sedai in question. Just like the ability to lie is based upon the beliefs held by that Aes Sedai. Elaida was able to call Egwene a Darkfriend because in her twisted mis-trustful mind she actually believed it to be true.

 

For instance in New Spring Moiraine holds the archer (former companion of Lan's who's name I can't remember at the moment) with flows of air only for him to be shot by the other's arrows. She thinks to herself that that was very nearly using the power as a weapon, and if she had convinced herself that it was it would have completely incapacitated or killed her. Luckily for the rest of the world it didn't. :)

 

For DW it's possible you're right, Bera and Co. probably could have used the belief that the Tower Aes Sedai holding Rand were in danger from the Shaido attacking them and therefore they could channel without worry of the Three Oaths. I see a few ways to address this. One it's possible that they didn't even consider that viewpoint and were simply thinking to themselves that they needed to be in danger. Perhaps they were thinking that as Aes Sedai to a usurping Amyrlin they weren't "sisters" (not likely). Perhaps given that the Tower Aes Sedai were holding their own perfectly well against the Shaido spears and Wise Ones they didn't feel that they were in danger. Granted I think they could have convinced themselves pretty easily that the Shaido meant them no good.