Making of the Callandor

[Barid Bel Medar]

^

 

The language at the end of the First Age could be the same as that in the Age of Legends, so its possible the Horn was created with the inscription. The Portal Stones would be another type of item from that era that's just kinda weird and different from everything else, also.

 

your right, it could be the same language, but from the Maria quote, it was added in the AoL. so i donno? Id say it was just what happened. Who knows why people do things?

[Elend]

D'oh!

 

I wasn't really thinking when I wrote that. Yeah, Maria said it was.

 

Anyway, the fact that the Portal Stones are also freaky and apparently not from AoL indicates the Horn is just another one of these anomalies.

[Barid Bel Medar]

D'oh!

 

I wasn't really thinking when I wrote that. Yeah, Maria said it was.

 

Anyway, the fact that the Portal Stones are also freaky and apparently not from AoL indicates the Horn is just another one of these anomalies.

 

Yeah, portal stones are really interesting. I think there is something more to them. They havent really been used much in the books apart from twice that I remember. For something so big and useful, I doubt nothing will happen with them in the final two books.

[Zyntras]

Why did the AoLer put that sentence on the Horn? And why this one? Has it been used many times in a turning? Or rather seldomly?

 

That's one of the reasons I won't believe the Horn is from before the AoL. Putting a stamp on a priceless artifact? It'd be like writing "Bob was here." on the Mona Lisa. You just don't do it.

 

It was more than just a stamp. It told the person what the object was for. To summon the dead. Not exactly instructions, but an indication.

 

In any case, dont believe all you want, it was made before AoL and inscription added in AoL.

 

 

JordanCon 24 April 2010 - Terez reporting

 

Tamyrlin: Is the Horn an object of the Power?

Maria: RAFO, but I will tell you something about the Horn. People always ask why the inscription on the Horn is in the Old Tongue, if it’s so old. It was added in the Age of Legends.

 

TOR Questions of the Week, December 2003 to April 2004

 

Week 1 Question: Was the Horn of Valere known and used in the Age of Legends? Or did it only appear in the Third Age?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: The Horn of Valere was known in the Age of Legends, though it was an artifact of an earlier age, but it was never used in the Age of Legends. In part, this was because there wasn't any need in an Age that knew universal peace, but also it was because what it could do was considered a sort of myth by most people in that Age. No one who is serious spends time trying to test out whether a myth might be real. (Seen anybody sacrificing a white bull to Jupiter lately?) And once the Dark One touched the world, before the War of the Shadow actually began, the Horn was among the items lost, and thought destroyed, in the first rush of mob violence, terrorism etc. So it wasn't available for use then even had someone wanted to try. It was later recovered and sealed up with the Dragon Banner because along with the Foretellings that made up the Prophecies of the Dragon was one saying that it must be.

 

In any case, the story of the Horn was carried on through the Age of Legends in the same way that myths are today, and magnified thereafter though the twisting that occurs in the telling and retelling of a story. And believe me, stories about the Dragon Reborn and the Prophecies and everything concerned with them were rife during the Breaking. When everything is going to hell around them, people cling to anything and everything that might offer hope. That is how the Breaking could end with tales of the Dragon Reborn and the Prophecies already on many peoples' lips.

 

all quotes from theoryland database. https://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcjspjqg_73dz7wfhgt

 

this brings another question to mind:

 

if the Horn has been made in the 1. age, then the Dragon Banner has to also, because the Heros come to the call of the Horn, but they follow the Banner.

 

The question is this:

If the Dragon Banner has been made in the 1st age, was there a Dragon in that age?

 

follow up: was LTT the Dragon Reborn from the 1st age and not the *original* dragon in that cycle? (did he have memories form the previous age?)

 

ffu: how did it come to pass that LTT has been recognized as the DR? (Have there been false dragons? => Demandred [i have it in the back of my mind that one of the forsaken once thought that he was always one step behind LTT and that he COULD have been the dragon])

[Barid Bel Medar]

Why did the AoLer put that sentence on the Horn? And why this one? Has it been used many times in a turning? Or rather seldomly?

 

That's one of the reasons I won't believe the Horn is from before the AoL. Putting a stamp on a priceless artifact? It'd be like writing "Bob was here." on the Mona Lisa. You just don't do it.

 

It was more than just a stamp. It told the person what the object was for. To summon the dead. Not exactly instructions, but an indication.

 

In any case, dont believe all you want, it was made before AoL and inscription added in AoL.

 

 

JordanCon 24 April 2010 - Terez reporting

 

Tamyrlin: Is the Horn an object of the Power?

Maria: RAFO, but I will tell you something about the Horn. People always ask why the inscription on the Horn is in the Old Tongue, if it’s so old. It was added in the Age of Legends.

 

TOR Questions of the Week, December 2003 to April 2004

 

Week 1 Question: Was the Horn of Valere known and used in the Age of Legends? Or did it only appear in the Third Age?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: The Horn of Valere was known in the Age of Legends, though it was an artifact of an earlier age, but it was never used in the Age of Legends. In part, this was because there wasn't any need in an Age that knew universal peace, but also it was because what it could do was considered a sort of myth by most people in that Age. No one who is serious spends time trying to test out whether a myth might be real. (Seen anybody sacrificing a white bull to Jupiter lately?) And once the Dark One touched the world, before the War of the Shadow actually began, the Horn was among the items lost, and thought destroyed, in the first rush of mob violence, terrorism etc. So it wasn't available for use then even had someone wanted to try. It was later recovered and sealed up with the Dragon Banner because along with the Foretellings that made up the Prophecies of the Dragon was one saying that it must be.

 

In any case, the story of the Horn was carried on through the Age of Legends in the same way that myths are today, and magnified thereafter though the twisting that occurs in the telling and retelling of a story. And believe me, stories about the Dragon Reborn and the Prophecies and everything concerned with them were rife during the Breaking. When everything is going to hell around them, people cling to anything and everything that might offer hope. That is how the Breaking could end with tales of the Dragon Reborn and the Prophecies already on many peoples' lips.

 

all quotes from theoryland database. https://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcjspjqg_73dz7wfhgt

 

this brings another question to mind:

 

if the Horn has been made in the 1. age, then the Dragon Banner has to also, because the Heros come to the call of the Horn, but they follow the Banner.

 

The question is this:

If the Dragon Banner has been made in the 1st age, was there a Dragon in that age?

 

follow up: was LTT the Dragon Reborn from the 1st age and not the *original* dragon in that cycle? (did he have memories form the previous age?)

 

ffu: how did it come to pass that LTT has been recognized as the DR? (Have there been false dragons? => Demandred [i have it in the back of my mind that one of the forsaken once thought that he was always one step behind LTT and that he COULD have been the dragon])

 

1. The Dragon Banner wasnt made with the horn.

 

"Dragon" is a title. Like the Amyrlin or Richard Lionheart. LTT was the Dragon.

 

Graendal says Demandred could have been the Dragon if not for LTT. Because he was the second best, if there was no LTT, he woul dhave been given the command and be called the "Dragon".

 

Here is another quote. It doesnt really explain much except the horn and banner werent made at the same time.

 

Knife of Dreams book tour Dayton, OH 21 October 2005 - Tim Kington reporting

Q: Were the Dragon Banner and the Horn of Valere made at the same time?

RJ: No.

Q: Then why did Hawkwing need Rand to produce the banner at Falme before he could attack?

RJ: Legends change.

[Zyntras]

oh, thx,

if RJ said it, it is so :P even if i dont understand it o.O

[Barid Bel Medar]

oh, thx,

if RJ said it, it is so :P even if i dont understand it o.O

 

haha yeah,i am not quite sure on the specifics of that quote, but hey, when have humans ever been easy to understand? Let alone ones in a fantasy world.

[Ava]

if i found a lamp that legend said would summon a genie, i would rub it purely out of curiosity. why didnt anyone in the AoL just blow the horn before it was lost to see if dead people would turn up? wouldnt really take that long to prove it was a myth or not

[BrandonXRoss]

Unfortunately you're remembering wrong. Rand did in fact weave some unknown weave into Callandor causing it to deflect Ishmael's balefire. The balefire was split, by the weave, and cut the pillars to either side of Rand.

 

Unless this was confirmed by RJ, Brandon or Maria without my knowing, that's not certain. The three options, as I recall, are...

 

1. Despite the similarities in description, what Ishamael wove was not balefire.

 

2. That Callandor was cuendillar, and deflected the balefire that way.

 

3. Rand came up with a new weave, as you say.

 

I'm a fan of the third option--Rand achieves previously impossible things with Callandor at other times, like the Shadowspawn Storm--but this is not certain, unless of course there is information I'm missing.

 

 

I'm also thinking it's the third option, or maybe that the new weave would only ever work when used with the material that Callandor is constructed from. That would give Callandor an additional "secret" power, although it doesn't seem likely. Usually "new" weaves are passed down from LTT who, IIRC, hasn't used Callandor before. It does seem possible that LTT might know a weave that is capable of defending against balefire.

 

I don't think it could be the second option since we only really know that cuendillar is immune to balefire, not if it has any counter-effects on the balefire itself. Also, in the scene just after Nynaeve battles Mog'hedien for the first time, in the room where the male a'dam was being kept, one of the BA fires the balefire rod at Nynaeve. When she dodges it, the balefire strikes the male a'dam and the narration describes the a'dam as simply falling to the floor as everything around it was burned out of the pattern. Mog'hedien had previously described the a'dam as being a type of cuendillar.

Although there's still a possibility that traditional cuendillar could deflect balefire, we know that at least one type just seems to let it destroy everything around it.

[Hadilmir]

Option 1 is grasping at straws given the extreme detail that is given to the 'balefire'.

 

Option 2 is plausible, but as Brandon Ross just said, the cuendillar bracelets did not interact with the 'balefire' in the very next book.

 

Option 3 is almost a given when you read the paragraph(s) closely-

"...it was instinct as much as anything else that made him loose flows from saidin into Callandor, a flood of the Power that made the sword blaze brighter even than that bar streaking at him."

 

 

Yea, that sounds pretty certain to me...

[FarShainMael]

As Hadilmir says:

..a blazing shaft like the one Moiraine had made shot out of the shadows among the columns, straight toward his chest. His wrist twisted the sword instinctively; it was instinct as much as anything else that made him loose flows from saidin into Callandor, a flood of the Power that made the sword blaze even brighter than that bar streaking at him..

 

The shaft of light struck the blade of Callandor - and parted on its edge, forking to stream past on either side.. Behind him, the two prongs of frozen fire.. struck huge redstone columns; where they struck, stone ceased to exist..

 

So Callandor was indeed filled with saidin.. though a specific weave isn't mentioned.

[Zyntras]

this event also happend in TAR, it could be that Rand spimply wished what he wanted to do and created a *pseudo weave*

[Hadilmir]

this event also happend in TAR, it could be that Rand spimply wished what he wanted to do and created a *pseudo weave*

 

That's a very good poin-What is that in your avatar!?!?

[Zyntras]

this event also happend in TAR, it could be that Rand spimply wished what he wanted to do and created a *pseudo weave*

 

That's a very good poin-What is that in your avatar!?!?

 

it's an animal form a german P&P RPG, its called a "todeshörnchen" (deathsquirrel?)

 

in short:

 

its a squirrel with a horn on its head; it climbs tree and then jumps horn-first onto its pray (small wolves, foxes, rabits, the mage of a wandering group of heros :o) to crack their skull, then they eat the yummy brain :o

[Luckers]

It's still not certain Hadilimir. One of the points I recall being raised in support of 'cuendillardor' is that Osan'gar plans to balefire the hill with Rand on it it during the Cleansing. He thinks it a pity the Access Key would be destroyed, but comforts himself with the fact that at least he would have Callandor. Of course some suggest in return that he did not plan to balefire Narishma, yet that seems unlikely--expose himself to a circle weilding Callandor? He'd want to take them out as quickly as possible. Osan'gar was never very brave.

 

I prefer the weave option, but it is not certain--and by the same logic you suggest that Rand wove from saidin filling Callandor, one can make a similar presumption about Osan'gar balefiring Rand.

 

Incidentally we don't know that the cuendillar in tSR didn't block the balefire. There is no description of the balefire going through the cuendillar, it sweeps past destroying things around it--and recall if balefire hits one part of something the entirety is destroyed, so its perfectly possible that the cuendillar blocked the balefire. Everything it hit would have been destroyed one way or another.

[Hadilmir]

It's still not certain Hadilimir. One of the points I recall being raised in support of 'cuendillardor' is that Osan'gar plans to balefire the hill with Rand on it it during the Cleansing. He thinks it a pity the Access Key would be destroyed, but comforts himself with the fact that at least he would have Callandor. Of course some suggest in return that he did not plan to balefire Narishma, yet that seems unlikely--expose himself to a circle weilding Callandor? He'd want to take them out as quickly as possible. Osan'gar was never very brave.

 

I prefer the weave option, but it is not certain--and by the same logic you suggest that Rand wove from saidin filling Callandor, one can make a similar presumption about Osan'gar balefiring Rand.

 

Incidentally we don't know that the cuendillar in tSR didn't block the balefire. There is no description of the balefire going through the cuendillar, it sweeps past destroying things around it--and recall if balefire hits one part of something the entirety is destroyed, so its perfectly possible that the cuendillar blocked the balefire. Everything it hit would have been destroyed one way or another.

 

Good counter-argument from nowhere, still I'd much rather rely on the one event we have of balefire striking Callandor and go with the key words 'loose flows from saidin into Callandor' than an assumption based entirely on indirect thoughts of balefiring Callandor.

 

As for the cuendillar in tSR, recall the splitting of the balefire stream on Callandor's edge. The fact that the stream directly interacted with Callandor and apparently didn't interact at all with the tSR cuendillar suggests a difference. I'm fairly sure the discrepancy in the balefire stream behind the cuendillar would have been noted because it should have also distorted the balefire like Callandor if the reason for enduring was the same. It would be hard not to notice random jets of balefire deflecting off the cuendillar when the rest of the wall was cut with razor-line precision, no?

 

I suppose nothing is certain when speaking of a fictional universe though...

[FarShainMael]

During the Cleansing, Callandor was again filled with saidin, this time by Narishma in his circle.

 

Actually, that's a thought. Rand wasn't in a circle himself when he used Callandor against Ba'alzamon. Hmm.