Jachim Carridan could channel and Egwene is the "Daughter of the Night"

[LemonPastie]

So Hi to everyone here. Just doing an ol' reread since book 12 and been looking at characters actions and thoughts a lot more in depth and I have come across two things in tGH

 

1) tGH - Prologue page xix

"The man who called himself Bors swallowed. There will come a day, Halfman. When the Great Lord of the Dark comes again, he will choose his new Dreadlords, and you will cower before them. You will cower before men. Before me! Why doesn't it speak? Stop staring at me, and speak!"

 

So we know that dreadlords are friends of the dark who can channel, hence has Carridan got his info wrong, or can he channel? I'm willing to let this go either way and there wont be a resolution from it however I also had a dream last night where I read further in tGH that the Whitecloaks can all channel and they are like an opposing force to the Aes Sedai. Maybe their true purpose will be made known in 13&14...

 

2) tGH - Blood calls Blood page 105

"Daughter of the Night, she walks again.

The ancient war, she yet fights.

Her new lover she seeks, who shall serve her and die, yet serve still.

Who shall stand against her coming?

The Shining Walls shall kneel.

Blood feels blood.

Blood calls blood.

Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be."

 

This passage also stood out to me purely from the "The shining Walls shall kneel". I have always considered the Dark Prophecy will come true in its own way and so when I read that, I thought about who we know the Shinning Walls have knelt to.

 

So how else does Egwene fit this verse?

 

Daughter of the Night - Egwene is our main Dreamer/dreamwalker?

 

She walks again - is she someone reborn who is about to start visiting Tel'aran'rhoid again? (and may have without quite realising it. I can't remember the first time she dreams herself there

 

The ancient war, she yet fights - The ancient war is the one against the shadow/light and she is fighting in it

 

Her new lover she seeks - at the time of writing she was on her way to Tar Valon where she would meet Gawyn

who shall serve her and die, yet serve her still - this fortells the bonding and Gawyn's possible death in the Last Battle. How can he serve beyond that though? unless Nynaeve can heal his death after Rand, or is Gawyn a hero too?

 

Who shall stand against her coming? - Has anyone in the WT/Rebels been able to stand in her way for long? Rand is going to kneel to her soon as well

 

The Shining Walls shall kneel. - The rebels have done this to her now. If the few AS that knelt to Rand can fulfill his prophesy, the rebels could pass for this line. I also don't see the new WT, now that Egwene is in charge, kneeling to Egwene.

 

Blood feels blood etc - Rand/Egwene have a bond from their childhood - this could be as strong as a blood relationship. Especially considering how close and how much of a pull Rand/Perrin/Mat have on each other.

 

I'll be back later with come backs to the flaming I'm sure to get.

I may even postulate on who I think Egwene is and why she is Taveren (sp) too

[Luckers]

RJ confirmed none of the major female character are ta'veren. Jaichim Carridan could not channel or he would have against Liandrin to protect himself in The Shadow Rising, so it appears he was wrong--which is not implausible. He maintains weird thoughts about channelers, whatever his alleigence. He still thinks of them as witches and has the attitude of a whitecloak about them.

 

I could see why you might apply Egwene to that prophecy--yet there is something nasty sounding about that Daughter of the Night. Her new lover she seeks, for him to serve her and die--sounds too nasty for Egwene. Besides the dreams indicated that it is Egwene that will die or not depending on Gawyn's choice, not the other way around.

 

Far more likely is simply that the Daughter of the Night is Lanfear, and the Shinning Walls was a bit of poetic liscence. It could be said, for instance, that Lanfear humbled the Shinning Walls by walking the Tower with impunity.

[Barid Bel Medar]

RJ confirmed none of the major female character are ta'veren. Jaichim Carridan could not channel or he would have against Liandrin to protect himself in The Shadow Rising, so it appears he was wrong--which is not implausible. He maintains weird thoughts about channelers, whatever his alleigence. He still thinks of them as witches and has the attitude of a whitecloak about them.

 

I could see why you might apply Egwene to that prophecy--yet there is something nasty sounding about that Daughter of the Night. Her new lover she seeks, for him to serve her and die--sounds too nasty for Egwene. Besides the dreams indicated that it is Egwene that will die or not depending on Gawyn's choice, not the other way around.

 

Far more likely is simply that the Daughter of the Night is Lanfear, and the Shinning Walls was a bit of poetic liscence. It could be said, for instance, that Lanfear humbled the Shinning Walls by walking the Tower with impunity.

 

Also, its a Dark Prophecy, they arnt going to fortell the light beating them.

 

On the note of Taveren, Luckers is right, and even if RJ didnt, Suian and Nicola ahve the ability to see Taveren.

 

The most powerful of the female Forsaken, possibly the most powerful of all next to Ishamael was Lanfear, 'Daughter of the Night'in the Old Tounge

 

BWB, Chapter 6: Female Forsaken and the Darkfriends

 

So yeah, its Lanfear

[LemonPastie]

Alright, so I will assume Bors forgot that only channelers can be dreadlords.

 

I am still not sure about Egwene's Ta'verenness - I know it has been talked about in the structured boards, but not in great depth. Is there a place with theories like they used to have on wotmania? I'm still resonably new to where to find such info regarding RJ's quotes.

Does the Ta'veren glow look like Egwene is holding Saidar? does the glow start in the middle of the body and is small enough that it doesn't actually break through her skin? If we do some lung surgery on her will we see a small tennis ball size glow of Ta'veren?

 

I'm sure you would be able to refute me, Luckers, but so often things happen to Egwene and are described as "the last thing I expected to do" or "seemed suprised about doing that" just like ta'veren pull is described with Mat and Perrin.

 

OR... do the three boys need her in a particular place come TG that it is actually their Ta'verenness that is causing these things to happen?

[Luckers]

RJ's blog 20 January 2006 "IT'S BEEN A WHILE"

 

For ben, of course women can be ta'veren. None of the major female characters in the books is ta'veren, though. The Wheel doesn’t cast ta'veren around indiscriminately. There has to be a specific reason or need. (I tossed in the “major” just to leave you something to argue about.)

 

It cannot be doubted, I think, that Egwene is a major female character.

 

 

[Jon Paul]

Where is it said that Dreadlords must be able to channel to become Dreadlords?  It's a safe assumption, as you would want the stongest available.  But for instance, do you think if Bashere turned to the Shadow, with all his military genuis, he would be any less of a Dreadlord than, say Grady, just because he cannot channel?

[Luckers]

It's been defined in several places, but here is one from RJ.

 

Robert Jordan Answers: First off, Dreadlords was the name given to men and women who could channel and sided with the Shadow in the Trolloc Wars. Yes, the women were called Dreadlords, too.

 

[Tor; Question of the Week]

[Jon Paul]

It's been defined in several places, but here is one from RJ.

 

Good enough for me.

 

But what would that make Bashere if he turned to the Shadow like I posited above?  Surely a man such as he would not be a mere Darkfriend?

[Luckers]

He'd be a high ranking darkfriend. As they say, an Aes Sedai would take orders from a beggar, if the beggar had the right gestures.