Perrin's Unseen Enemy

[Luckers]

So according to the recent blurb release for ToM, Perrin has an unseen enemy.

 

Perrin Aybara is now hunted by specters from his past: Whitecloaks, a slayer of wolves, and the responsibilities of leadership. All the while, an unseen foe is slowly pulling a noose tight around his neck. To prevail, he must seek answers in Tel’aran’rhiod and find a way--at long last--to master the wolf within him or lose himself to it forever.

 

This unseen foe is not Slayer or the Whitecloaks, but something else. Something he must seek answers to in TAR. This thread is for the general discussion of that, but my immediate thought was of the Unseen Eyes of TAR--my call for the Big Unnoticed Thing.

 

Me calling the BUT was mostly just trying to incite some more focussed discussion--make people back things to bring some clarity. But consider the following.

 

The first citing of which occurs in book four...

 

Studying the columns herself, Egwene shrugged uncomfortably. It did feel as if, they were being watched. No doubt it was just because they were the only people in the Stone. No one who had access to Tel'aran'rhiod could expect to find anyone to watch, here. [tSR;35, Sharp Lessons]

 

First mentioned in book 4, with heavy mention in through books four and five, slows down a bit in book 6, and then has one mention each in books 7, 9 &10(which fits what Brandon said about it continuing on quietly after book six in the background). Here are some of the quotes.

 

"...She had the sensation of being watched from the dimnesses between the columns..."

"...The emptiness of the vast chamber oppressed her, all those great polished columns and that sense of being watched from the dimness between..."

”... there was often a feel of unseen eyes in the World of Dreams…”

"...that sensation of being watched that was so common in Tel’aran ‘rhiod. It was all Nynaeve could do not to flee..."

“…Suddenly very much aware of feeling unseen eyes…”

“…She had almost grown accustomed to the feel of unseen eyes in this vast chamber…”

“…Even the feel of unseen eyes could not touch her through her anger this morning…”

“…often she had the feeling of eyes watching…”

"...calling [Egwene] did nothing except increase that uneasy feeling of being watched..."

"...she became aware of being watched by unseen eyes. That sensation was always present in Tel'aran'rhiod, and not even the Wise Ones knew why..."

"...The ever-present sensation of unseen eyes watching was not dreamlike..."

"...That no longer seemed any odder to her than the feel of unseen eyes watching..."

 

 

So... BUT. Unseen Eyes in TAR. Unseen enemy for Perrin, whom Perrin must seek answers about in TAR...

 

It was a joke, but I'm suddenly feeling very comfortable, lol.

 

:D

 

[Terez]

There has to be something to connect the unseen eyes to Perrin, though.  Elsewise, it doesn't fit what Brandon said.  Something head-slappingly obvious that we should have been discussing all these years.

[Luckers]

There has to be something to connect the unseen eyes to Perrin, though.  Elsewise, it doesn't fit what Brandon said.  Something head-slappingly obvious that we should have been discussing all these years.

 

We should have discussed the Unseen Eyes--they were quite obvious. Look at the above quotes.

 

He said nothing about the effect the BUT would have being obvious, just that the BUT itself was. As for the connection between Perrin and the Unseen Eyes--I highlighted it above. Tel'aran'rhiod. The Wolf Dream. An Unseen Foe the answers to which lie in TAR.

 

[Etzel]

I think the unseen eyes in TAR are a convincing idea for the little, important detail.

 

However, I believe that the unseen foe mentioned in the blurb most likely points to a Forsaken threatening Perrin. In my opinion, it's e.g. quite possible that Aran'gar was sent by SH to infiltrate Perrin's group, after she left the Rebel AS. Maybe whatever is the meaning of the unseen eyes will somehow help Perrin to prevail against the unseen foe.

[Luckers]

Could that be seen as an 'unseen foe'? Perrin is very aware the Forsaken have commanded his death. He got an arrow through the arm as an exclamation point.

[FarShainMael]

A problem with this is that, so far, the 'unseen eyes' have not appeared to be hostile. Yes, it makes people uncomfortable, but that's all. It's hard to believe that the UE entity has something specifically against Perrin but not anyone else, not Egwene, not the WO. Perrin does have a couple of specific enemies  - the Whitecloaks - and of course Slayer, who does wander around in T'A'R, but we know about him. So I'm not convinced that the UF = the UE.

 

[Crael123]

I always thought the unseen eyes were the forsaken, specifically demondred because i remember one time elayne was in Tar and she went to the stone of tear and she felt the "eyes" and 3 pages later we got a demondred POV and he was "watching" her

[Luckers]

A problem with this is that, so far, the 'unseen eyes' have not appeared to be hostile. Yes, it makes people uncomfortable, but that's all. It's hard to believe that the UE entity has something specifically against Perrin but not anyone else, not Egwene, not the WO. Perrin does have a couple of specific enemies  - the Whitecloaks - and of course Slayer, who does wander around in T'A'R, but we know about him. So I'm not convinced that the UF = the UE.

 

 

Perhaps the Eyes couldn't manifest till recently--I'm developing stuff on this which I'll post in a few days, but for the short there may simply be restrictions which have recently failed or were violated. That they've not acted till now doesn't doesn't mean they arn't hostile, and there is a disctinctly unpleasent feel to them.

 

Additionally we know from the quote that the Unseen Foe is neither the Whitecloaks nor Slayer.

 

I always thought the unseen eyes were the forsaken, specifically demondred because i remember one time elayne was in Tar and she went to the stone of tear and she felt the "eyes" and 3 pages later we got a demondred POV and he was "watching" her

 

If the Forsaken were watching as consistantly as the Eyes were mentioned the fight would be over. And Demandred watched in Caemlyn, and did not recognise Elayne by sight (indicating he had not watched her before).

 

 

[Etzel]

Could that be seen as an 'unseen foe'? Perrin is very aware the Forsaken have commanded his death. He got an arrow through the arm as an exclamation point.

 

While Perrin is generally aware that the Shadow wants him dead, I think the term "unseen foe" could describe a specific Forsaken (as said, maybe Aran'gar; otherwise perhaps Cyndane, who is a master of TAR herself), who is hiding among Perrin's group. Similar to the situation between Egwene and Halima; and Halima also tried to mess with Egwene's dreams. She also assassinated people. Perhaps Aran'gar even killed the Asha'man with Perrin. This would explain why Perrin still hasn't Travelled anywhere.

 

IIRC, BS indicated that the little detail will rather save the day in the end, i.e. it will be helpful for the Light, which would speak against the idea that a foe is behind the unseen eyes. If the unseen eyes are e.g. somehow related to the wolves (or maybe the Heroes or other ghosts), it would make sense that this could be helpful for Perrin and the Light against the Shadow, if Perrin manages to use this potential.

[Terez]

There has to be something to connect the unseen eyes to Perrin, though.  Elsewise, it doesn't fit what Brandon said.  Something head-slappingly obvious that we should have been discussing all these years.

 

We should have discussed the Unseen Eyes--they were quite obvious. Look at the above quotes.

 

They don't suggest anything about what the unseen eyes are, though.  Brandon says that he is surprised we haven't caught a whiff of it, whatever it is, and wondering what the hell something is doesn't count as catching a whiff of it (because we have done that with nearly everything):

 

Here is what he said in Vegas when talking about Towers of Midnight:

 

"...including one thing is secretly hidden in the books for books and books and books, and I haven't been able to find a hint that any of the fan communities have even gotten a whiff it, which is awesome, because they get a whiff of almost everything. And it is really going to be a shocker when it happens, but it is going to be one of those shockers that people are going to slap their foreheads, why haven't we been talking about this for twelve years..."

 

We have discussed the unseen eyes quite a bit; the discussion just never went anywhere (and still hasn't).  If you don't know what the unseen eyes are, then even if it turns out to be that, there's nothing particularly special about having guessed it, IMO.  It would be different if you actually solved the puzzle.

[Luckers]

They don't suggest anything about what the unseen eyes are, though.  Brandon says that he is surprised we haven't caught a whiff of it, whatever it is, and wondering what the hell something is doesn't count as catching a whiff of it (because we have done that with nearly everything)

 

Sure it does. In fact, in direct parallel, until Hero of Ages we had no understanding of what Hemalurgy was. We had hints that something was off. The Steel Inquisitors with spikes through their eyes, voices in the head--hints, implications that something dire was going on--but we did not understand it.

 

A whiff is a hint of something weird going on. That's what we have with the Unseen Eyes. That we do not know what the Unseen Eyes are doesn't change that any more than not knowing what Hemalurgy was changed the oddities in Mistborn.

 

We have discussed the unseen eyes quite a bit; the discussion just never went anywhere (and still hasn't).  If you don't know what the unseen eyes are, then even if it turns out to be that, there's nothing particularly special about having guessed it, IMO.  It would be different if you actually solved the puzzle.

 

Hmm. I perused over three thousand posts compiling a list of viable BUT's, not to mention scouring books four to six to find the Unseen Eye citations. Ideal Seek, EWoT and the ebooks were next to useless for that, and your discussions had little more to offer than 'What about the Eyes in TAR? They're a bit weird, eh?'. And it was all this work that led me to this conclusion.

 

Perhaps you're right Theresa--that picking the one idea out of the myriad is not 'particularily special', irrespective to the effort you put into considering the issue and all its myriad solutions. And perhaps you are also correct that not knowing the implications (though I have some thoughts--upcoming!) makes the effort put into singling it out as the potential BUT worthless.

 

Not very nice to say it, though. :-\

[Terez]

Hmm. I perused over three thousand posts compiling a list of viable BUT's, not to mention scouring books four to six to find the Unseen Eye citations. Ideal Seek, EWoT and the ebooks were next to useless for that, and your discussions had little more to offer than 'What about the Eyes in TAR? They're a bit weird, eh?'. And it was all this work that led me to this conclusion.

 

Perhaps you're right Theresa--that picking the one idea out of the myriad is not 'particularily special', irrespective to the effort you put into considering the issue and all its myriad solutions. And perhaps you are also correct that not knowing the implications (though I have some thoughts--upcoming!) makes the effort put into singling it out as the potential BUT worthless.

 

Not very nice to say it, though. :-\

LOL, no need to be all angsty and drama queen about it.  I'm just saying...any idiot can make a guess at what the mysterious detail is.  Actually figuring out the mystery is something else altogether.  I'm not sure why you bring up my discussions - I haven't made any claims to have 'called' the detail, though I've offered up a few ideas, some of which even have a proper theory behind them - and I don't know why you bring up your compiling of all the theories either, as it doesn't seem to be relevant to the discussion at hand.

 

Removed. Spoilers for Mistborn.

[birtikidis]

I don't think the unseen eyes are the foresaken.  I personally think that there is something holding them back in Tel and as the barriers between the DO and the world thin, other barriers are weakening too.  just like with ghosts walking, and the DO's touch....

[birtikidis]

and since wolves are tied to the wheel, wouldn't it make sense that they have some kind of enemy that is also tied to tel?  Are wolfbrothers tied to the wheel too?

[Terez]

I don't think wolves are tied to the Wheel, exactly.  They just exist in Tel'aran'rhiod, like all wild animals do.  They do appear to be planning on joining in at Tarmon Gai'don, but for all we know, the lions and the iguanas will be there too.

[birtikidis]

I thought hopper told Perrin that wolves go to Tel when they die.  doesn't that infer that they are tied to the wheel...

[Terez]

I thought hopper told Perrin that wolves go to Tel when they die.  doesn't that infer that they are tied to the wheel...

No, not really (at least, not in the way that the Heroes are). They didn't come when the Horn was blown at Falme.  All wild animals have reflections in Tel'aran'rhiod - only domesticated animals do not - and for all we know, it may be that all wild animals go there when they die.

[birtikidis]

I wasn't referring to them being tied to the horn in a similar manner as heros.  and imo, reflections in tel and going there when dead are two different things.  the only animal EVER talked about dying and going there are wolves.  it's kind of obvious there is something special about them.

[Terez]

Well, there's not any actual evidence for them being 'tied to the Wheel', whatever this is supposed to mean.

 

As for your original premise...even if they are somehow 'tied to the Wheel', there is nothing to suggest that they should therefore have some sort of balance in Tel'aran'rhiod.  The Heroes don't. 

[birtikidis]

You're probably right.  I'm not arguing with you or anything, i just always felt that the series had a sense of balance and that we'll eventually see it...

[Terez]

You might have gotten that impression from the fact that Hopper thinks the wolves have to be at the Last Battle because of the creation of the Shadowbrothers.  Which is probably true.  Doesn't mean they need some sort of balance in Tel'aran'rhiod.

[birtikidis]

I actually never even thought of the darkhounds...  Hopper told perrin that Tel is where wolves go when they die.  nothing to do with the last battle. 

[Dida]

There has to be something to connect the unseen eyes to Perrin, though.  Elsewise, it doesn't fit what Brandon said.  Something head-slappingly obvious that we should have been discussing all these years.

 

 

  Off hand, I'm reminded of Birgitte's observation of Demandred & Semirhage shadowing Rahvin and Sammael; Graendal and Lanfear. (tFoH, Ch.14)

 

  Demandred was also once seen in the TAR, where he found an angry Elayne.  Seems as if he was shadowing events occurring in Andor & Caemlyn, but why?

 

  Rand's L.T.T voice once also connected Demandred to Shadar Logoth. Was Demandred using a pathway in the Ways, which went through Shadar Logoth Waygate in route to somewhere else? To the Shadow Coast?

 

  Considering that the faction of Demandred, Semirhage and Mesaana were all going to turn on each other, after the other Chosen were killed. It goes to reason that Demandred would have placed himself in a location, which could have an advantage to attacking Semirhage and her Seanchan allies. The Shadow Coast?

 

  Demandred claims to rule, and have his armies ready for war.  But where?

In parts of the former nations of Balasun and Kharendor, now known as the Shadow Coast?

 

  I suspect Perrin's unseen enemy may in fact be Demandred's army and Shadowspawn he's placed in what is now the Shadow Coast via the two known Waygates.  Demandred would be able to attack Semirhage's Seanchan from the Shadow Coast flanks easily.  Demandred could move his Shadowspawn forces northwards and up into Andor via the bridge at Whitebridge.  Meaning that large pack of Darkhounds Perrin once found (CoT book, Ch.6 & 7), was send by Demandred to scout out corridors for future attack northwards.

 

  Perrin's story arc would seem to need to communicate to wolves and other Wolfbrothers, to figure out where exactly his unseen enemy is located presently.  During the Malden scenes in CoT book, Perrin had to call in Wolves from outside that area, to help him fight the Shiado Aiel.  There were not wolves in that forest, which Perrin thought was odd too.  Why was that?

 

Did the Darkhounds kill or push the wolves out of the area, previously?  ???           

 

 

 

[StefanR]

Demandred seems to be the go-to person whenever we don't know who did what though...

[Paerish Swar]

Studying the columns herself, Egwene shrugged uncomfortably. It did feel as if, they were being watched. No doubt it was just because they were the only people in the Stone. No one who had access to Tel'aran'rhiod could expect to find anyone to watch, here. [tSR;35, Sharp Lessons]

"...She had the sensation of being watched from the dimnesses between the columns..."

"...The emptiness of the vast chamber oppressed her, all those great polished columns and that sense of being watched from the dimness between..."

”... there was often a feel of unseen eyes in the World of Dreams…”

"...that sensation of being watched that was so common in Tel’aran ‘rhiod. It was all Nynaeve could do not to flee..."

“…Suddenly very much aware of feeling unseen eyes…”

“…She had almost grown accustomed to the feel of unseen eyes in this vast chamber…”

“…Even the feel of unseen eyes could not touch her through her anger this morning…”

“…often she had the feeling of eyes watching…”

"...calling [Egwene] did nothing except increase that uneasy feeling of being watched..."

"...she became aware of being watched by unseen eyes. That sensation was always present in Tel'aran'rhiod, and not even the Wise Ones knew why..."

"...The ever-present sensation of unseen eyes watching was not dreamlike..."

"...That no longer seemed any odder to her than the feel of unseen eyes watching..."

 

Is this the complete list of references to unseen eyes in T'a'r?

 

Are any of the quotes on this list from Perrin's perspective?  They don't appear to be.  Perrin always refers to it as the Wolfdream, right?

 

Has Perrin ever commented on a feeling of unseen eyes in the Wolfdream?

 

If the answer is "No," then I think it probably is not the "Unseen Enemy."  If Perrin never felt the unseen eyes, how would it come in to play as antagonistic (an enemy) to him?

 

But also, if the answer is "No," then there are interesting implications as to the nature of the unseen eyes as far as their possibility in being the BUT.

 

If Perrin has mentioned unseen eyes in the Wolfdream, then my point is moot.