KoD Aviendha and Ter'angreal

[FarShainMael]

I want to know what the crystal throne is meant for already.

Is it known to be a ter'angreal, or just a guess?

Known. The Guide tells us it inspires awe in all those who approach it. It has been speculated that I have a similar ter'angreal, but I assure you the awe I inspire is all natural.

Oh great one, tell us, from your ineffable boundless knowledge.. what about the red crystal chair that Rand and Mat saw in Rhuidean, and Moiraine took away.. sorry, sorry, for disturbing your rest oh great one, I'll tiptoe away quietly..

 

 

...D*MN!! What happened there???

 

[FarShainMael]

Instead the Nine Rods of Dominion were regional offices--like governers over a district.

 

Do we know that or is it still speculation?  Even the BWB (which I know isn't cannon) speculates that the OR may be one of the 9 rods.

 

Considering the rod that Galina had to swear on had a number above 100, I doubt its the binders.

 

Not if it was in binary, or 'roman' numerals..

 

[Luckers]

I want to know what the crystal throne is meant for already.

Is it known to be a ter'angreal, or just a guess?

Known. The Guide tells us it inspires awe in all those who approach it. It has been speculated that I have a similar ter'angreal, but I assure you the awe I inspire is all natural.

Oh great one, tell us, from your ineffable boundless knowledge.. what about the red crystal chair that Rand and Mat saw in Rhuidean, and Moiraine took away.. sorry, sorry, for disturbing your rest oh great one, I'll tiptoe away quietly..

 

 

...D*MN!! What happened there???

 

 

What about it? It was a red crystal chair. Moiraine took it in the wagons. It currently recides in a warded warehouse in Cairhein. What does that have to do with what Ares said about the Crystal Throne, and why the attitude?

 

Instead the Nine Rods of Dominion were regional offices--like governers over a district.

 

Do we know that or is it still speculation?  Even the BWB (which I know isn't cannon) speculates that the OR may be one of the 9 rods.

 

Considering the rod that Galina had to swear on had a number above 100, I doubt its the binders.

 

Not if it was in binary, or 'roman' numerals..

 

 

It wasn't. It was in Age of Legender numerals, numbering one hundred and eleven.

 

The Nine Rods were not the binders. Binders were ter'angreal used to bind criminal Aes Sedai. The Nine Rods were, in RJ's words...

 

Question Part 1: I have a question about the Nine Rods of Dominion. We have a couple of references to this, and Ishamael says that Lews Therin summoned the Nine Rods of Dominion, and theories have been floating around. Are the Oath Rods not the Nine Rods of Dominion?

 

Jordan: They were not the Oath Rods.

 

Question Part 2: Well are they positions of power? Were they people, or were they actual rods?

 

Jordan: They were actual people, and they were, but you might call them regional governors of the earth, regional governors of the planet. So if I say, summon them, then we've got a guy who has been given in effect ultimate power.

[Druugan]

Instead the Nine Rods of Dominion were regional offices--like governers over a district.

 

Do we know that or is it still speculation?  Even the BWB (which I know isn't cannon) speculates that the OR may be one of the 9 rods.

 

Considering the rod that Galina had to swear on had a number above 100, I doubt its the binders.

 

Not if it was in binary, or 'roman' numerals..

 

 

It wasn't. It was in Age of Legender numerals, numbering one hundred and eleven.

 

I think it is interesting to note that 111 is very similiar to III which is Roman Numeral 3... just saying.

 

 

 

The Nine Rods were not the binders. Binders were ter'angreal used to bind criminal Aes Sedai. The Nine Rods were, in RJ's words...

 

Question Part 1: I have a question about the Nine Rods of Dominion. We have a couple of references to this, and Ishamael says that Lews Therin summoned the Nine Rods of Dominion, and theories have been floating around. Are the Oath Rods not the Nine Rods of Dominion?

 

Jordan: They were not the Oath Rods.

 

Question Part 2: Well are they positions of power? Were they people, or were they actual rods?

 

Jordan: They were actual people, and they were, but you might call them regional governors of the earth, regional governors of the planet. So if I say, summon them, then we've got a guy who has been given in effect ultimate power.

 

However, given that RJ answer questions like a seasoned Aes Sedai, this does not preclude the Binders(such as the Oath Rod) from being tools used by the Nine Rods of Dominion(as governors) during the execution of their duties when an Aes Sedai is brought for sentencing.

[Luckers]

I think it is interesting to note that 111 is very similiar to III which is Roman Numeral 3... just saying.

 

You realise 111 and III are English/Latin numerals? The way the Age of Legenders draw their numerals might be $&^. One hundred and eleven, and looking nothing like the Roman numerals for three.

 

Irrespective, the numerals are recognised by Galina as the AOL numerals for one hundred and eleven. She doesn't see them and think they mean one hundred and eleven because they happen to look like the current way of writing one hundred and eleven, she sees them and distinctly thinks that it is the Age of Legender way of writing one hundred and eleven. This shows specific knowledge of the Age of Legenders way of writing numbers.

 

However, given that RJ answer questions like a seasoned Aes Sedai, this does not preclude the Binders(such as the Oath Rod) from being tools used by the Nine Rods of Dominion(as governors) during the execution of their duties when an Aes Sedai is brought for sentencing.

 

No, that doesn't, but this does...

 

The Hall of the Servants regulated the Aes Sedai, setting and enforcing the rules that pertained to channelers. Since Aes Sedai of this time often worked in teams, detailed rules of conduct and procedure were essential to the guild. All law and punishment for Aes Sedai were handled within the guild.

[The Guide; Chapter 3]

 

Aes Sedai could serve in government, and thus likely could be one of the Nine Rods of Dominion, but their role as one of those governers did not include adminstering punishment of criminal Aes Sedai--that was handled entirely by the Hall of Servants (whose members are referred to as councillors). Thus, no, the Nine Rods would not have been using the binders. (And it is 'binders'. Lower case.)

[Druugan]

I think it is interesting to note that 111 is very similar to III which is Roman Numeral 3... just saying.

 

You realise 111 and III are English/Latin numerals? The way the Age of Legenders draw their numerals might be $&^. One hundred and eleven, and looking nothing like the Roman numerals for three.

 

Irrespective, the numerals are recognised by Galina as the AOL numerals for one hundred and eleven. She doesn't see them and think they mean one hundred and eleven because they happen to look like the current way of writing one hundred and eleven, she sees them and distinctly thinks that it is the Age of Legender way of writing one hundred and eleven. This shows specific knowledge of the Age of Legenders way of writing numbers.

 

Yes, I did realized that.  My point was only that what she thinks it meant may not be what it really meant.

 

 

However, given that RJ answer questions like a seasoned Aes Sedai, this does not preclude the Binders(such as the Oath Rod) from being tools used by the Nine Rods of Dominion(as governors) during the execution of their duties when an Aes Sedai is brought for sentencing.

 

No, that doesn't, but this does...

 

The Hall of the Servants regulated the Aes Sedai, setting and enforcing the rules that pertained to channelers. Since Aes Sedai of this time often worked in teams, detailed rules of conduct and procedure were essential to the guild. All law and punishment for Aes Sedai were handled within the guild.

[The Guide; Chapter 3]

 

Aes Sedai could serve in government, and thus likely could be one of the Nine Rods of Dominion, but their role as one of those governers did not include adminstering punishment of criminal Aes Sedai--that was handled entirely by the Hall of Servants (whose members are referred to as councillors). Thus, no, the Nine Rods would not have been using the binders.

 

Fair enough.

 

(And it is 'binders'. Lower case.)

 

Wow.  You really felt the need to go there?  I capitalized because I was using the word as a proper noun, which requires capitalization.  The type of object may be a binder; however, wasn't the object itself was named Binder during the Age of Legends.  Regardless, whether or not 'Binder' is correct is completely irrelevant to either of our points.

 

[Luckers]

Yes, I did realized that.  My point was only that what she thinks it meant may not be what it really meant.

 

And my point is that the way she stated it shows specific knowledge that led to her deduction--she wasn't guessing or assuming, it was what she percieved it to be. The Age of Legender numerals for one hundred and eleven. And the presence of specific knowledge on her part goes against the attempt to suggest she may have made mistaken assumptions, as you suggest.

 

Wow.  You really felt the need to go there?  I capitalized because I was using the word as a proper noun, which requires capitalization.  The type of object may be a binder; however, wasn't the object itself was named Binder during the Age of Legends.  Regardless, whether or not 'Binder' is correct is completely irrelevant to either of our points.

 

That was the point I was making--it is not a proper noun, but a type of object. One of many, a binder, not Binder--check the Guide.

 

And as for why I went there--the issue being discussed involved the presumed significance of the binders. The Oath Rod gains singular significance because of the role modern Aes Sedai assign to it (much like how the Bowl of the Winds is assigned special value by the Atha'an Miere). But the reality is neither of these ter'angreal were significant in the Age of Legends. There were hundreds of ter'angreal that were used to modulate the weather, just as there were hundreds of binders.

 

They were tools to serve a purpose. And that was my point--'the sword' and 'the Sword' imply different significance. There is no Binder. There are binders, of which two happen to remain. Does this not, in light of the points raised, seem a relevent distinction for me to point out?

[Druugan]

And my point is that the way she stated it shows specific knowledge that led to her deduction--she wasn't guessing or assuming, it was what she percieved it to be. The Age of Legender numerals for one hundred and eleven. And the presence of specific knowledge on her part goes against the attempt to suggest she may have made mistaken assumptions, as you suggest.

 

Point taken.

 

That was the point I was making--it is not a proper noun, but a type of object. One of many, a binder, not Binder--check the Guide.

 

And as for why I went there--the issue being discussed involved the presumed significance of the binders. The Oath Rod gains singular significance because of the role modern Aes Sedai assign to it (much like how the Bowl of the Winds is assigned special value by the Atha'an Miere). But the reality is neither of these ter'angreal were significant in the Age of Legends. There were hundreds of ter'angreal that were used to modulate the weather, just as there were hundreds of binders.

 

They were tools to serve a purpose. And that was my point--'the sword' and 'the Sword' imply different significance. There is no Binder. There are binders, of which two happen to remain. Does this not, in light of the points raised, seem a relevent distinction for me to point out?

 

Yes it does.  Sorry if I came off too defensive there.  :-\

 

Along those lines, I suppose that the Forsaken found it odd that the AS were using a binder as the Oath Rod is just because it was used to impose sentences back in the AoL.  So... no real significance.

[BeckeyLee]

Regarding the Crystal Throne

Known. The Guide tells us it inspires awe in all those who approach it.

 

Could this be the High Seat mentioned along with the Nine Rods of Dominion by Ishamael at the beginning of TEOTW?

[Luckers]

RJ confirmed that the Crystal Throne was not the High Seat.

[BeckeyLee]

RJ confirmed that the Crystal Throne was not the High Seat.

 

Darn. It was a good idea.

[Luckers]

I know. It had a pretty strong following back in the day.

[Beer Rot]

Here's a question.  Is the ageless face and loss of years an intentional part of the binder's creation, or was it an unintended side effect?

 

If it was built with those two features in it, then it may be possible for one to be made in the future that just gives the face and oaths, without the penalty of a shorter life span.

 

Since I only really read the books, I wouldn't be surprised if this has been brought up to RJ before.. so any quotes?

[FarShainMael]

I want to know what the crystal throne is meant for already.

Is it known to be a ter'angreal, or just a guess?

Known. The Guide tells us it inspires awe in all those who approach it. It has been speculated that I have a similar ter'angreal, but I assure you the awe I inspire is all natural.

Oh great one, tell us, from your ineffable boundless knowledge.. what about the red crystal chair that Rand and Mat saw in Rhuidean, and Moiraine took away.. sorry, sorry, for disturbing your rest oh great one, I'll tiptoe away quietly..

 

 

...D*MN!! What happened there???

 

 

What about it? It was a red crystal chair. Moiraine took it in the wagons. It currently recides in a warded warehouse in Cairhein. What does that have to do with what Ares said about the Crystal Throne, and why the attitude?

 

Unget updandered. Just a cross-connection in my head, followed by a gentle leg-pull!

 

RJ confirmed that the Crystal Throne was not the High Seat.

 

Darn. It was a good idea.

 

Wonder if that's what the red crystal chair is...?

Though I suspect the term 'High Seat' refers to a position or rank, cf. the Amyrlin Seat.

 

 

[Beer Rot]

Wonder if that's what the red crystal chair is...?

Though I suspect the term 'High Seat' refers to a position or rank, cf. the Amyrlin Seat.

 

And yet, the chair in the Hall that Egwene puts her donkadonk on is the Amyrlin Seat :D

 

or.. Hmm.. I wonder if its like Air Force One, any chair she sits in is the Amyrlin Seat.  That way she can make judgements from the throne even when its the porcelain one.

[FarShainMael]

It may be both, seeing how Siuan Sanche used to sign herself. Also:

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/organizations/aes_sedai/index.html

 

[BeckeyLee]

Well I suppose Avi need to find the storeroom of stuff from Rhuiean and sit on the red chair too, just so we can find out for sure what it is.