Which Darkfriends were behind the Tower split? (a discussion)

[mellojoe]

Ok, something has been bugging me for a while but I couldn't quite put my finger on it.  Now during my re-read I think I've found voice:

 

Was there a lot of Darkfriends helping push forward the deposing of Siuan Sanche?

 

Elaida is probably not Black Ajah, but her Keeper is (Alviarin).

The head of the Red Ajah (Elaida's Ajah) is also Black (Galina).

 

Is that it?  Was there more dissention?

 

How did they really get Siuan deposed?  Surely the Tower, which is slow to act and has been preparing for Tarmon Gaidon for 3,000 years wouldn't fall apart over discovery of Rand.  Surely this conversation had come up before: "Do we help the Dragon?  Do we capture him? What do we do when he is found?"  Surely there wasn't one simple philosophy. 

 

Why, then, when it becomes revealed that Siuan is scheming(which, I'm sure she is not the first Amyriln to do so, and definitely not the first Aes Sedai do to so), does the Tower fall apart?  There must be more to it.  Obviously the Black Sisters would find this a great opportunity.  But could only 2 pull it off?  Would 2 Sitters, even Heads of Ajah's, have enough political weight to pull down an Amyrlin?

[ranjitb]

I strongly feel that it was probably initiated by those two very highly placed and influential black/blues - Moria and Sheriam. After all, there had been two Red amrylins deposed before, and the Red Ajah did not start a  split. The unconventional nature of how SS was deposed, and the always present blue-red hate was probably all the fuel they needed to start a fire.

 

 

Edit: TGS spoilers removed.

 

[mellojoe]

I just can't believe we know nothing more about this very pivotal plot line...

 

I guess the Tower holds secrets very closesly, right?

[Taura-Tierno]

I find this post by RJ to be quite enlightening:

 

CORRECTION: Answering these questions, I have always taken the assumption that I knew the books well enough that I did not need to refer to my notes. My answer for the Week 20 Question showed that I was mistaken. I said that Elaida was never a Sitter, but no sooner was that answer posted than my assistant Maria, who also is a fan, came to me with the relevant passage where Elaida is mentioned as a Sitter. I went to my notes, and after a lot of checking, I found the following in a file working out exactly how some points were to be structured and making sure that I had all the details covered. Somehow, I had never incorporated it into the base notes, perhaps because it seemed such a small matter, Elaida having been a Sitter for such a short time and then only as prelude to replacing Siuan and Amyrlin.

 

“Returning to the White Tower, Elaida quickly became convinced that Siuan and Moiraine were engaged in a scheme that involved Rand al’Thor. Indeed, she had suspicions of this before departing Caemlyn for Tar Valon. Moiraine’s presence in Tar Valon had not escaped her, nor that Moiraine had been seen with Rand. If, as seemed the more likely, he was simply a man who could channel who Siuan and Moiraine intended to make use of as a false Dragon, then it was a scheme that was extremely dangerous to the Tower. Revelation of such involvement could easily shatter the Tower’s prestige, and with it the influence that was the primary cornerstone of the Tower’s influence in the world. And if he was indeed the Dragon Reborn, Elaida certainly had no confidence in Siuan’s ability to handle the him, as surely the Dragon Reborn would need to be handled, guided and directed, not to mention controlled. Helped by her long-standing personal animosity toward Siuan and Moiraine, Elaida came to the conclusion that Siuan must be removed for the good of the Tower. This was not something that could be accomplished by an ordinary sister, however the stepping down of a Red Sitter (Amira Moselle) gave her an opening, and she managed to get herself chosen as Amira’s replacement in the Hall of the Tower.

 

In large part this was because of Galina Casban’s support as head of the Red Ajah, Galina having her own reasons to take any chance to pull Siuan down and, of course, favoring anything that would give the Amyrlin Seat to the Red Ajah again after so long. Galina made no attempt to attain the Amyrlin Seat herself because she knew she had little or no chance of being raised. Elaida, who had been so long away from Tar Valon and thus remained out of the political currents of the Tower, not to mention the favorable mention she had received for her guidance of Queen Morgase and Andor, was another matter.

 

Once Elaida had a chair in the Hall, it was a relatively simple matter to identify the Sitters who seemed most likely to stand for deposing Siuan, since a number of Sitters were uneasy at best about what Siuan was up to. Her support in the Hall had eroded sufficiently by The Great Hunt that she had opposition to her journey to Shienar. As a Sitter, Elaida was able to call a sitting of the Hall while making sure that only the Sitters she wanted to attend actually received notification. Elaida is a forceful and effective speaker, and her arguments to this bare quorum in favor of deposing Siuan were also her campaign for being raised to the Amyrlin Seat herself, so the vote to depose Siuan was followed immediately by the vote to make Elaida the new Amyrlin. She did not expect the violent reaction that would come from this. She had not had access to the secret histories for very long at this point, so her view was that of most sisters. The Tower had always acceded to the will of the Hall however sisters might grumble. Like many others, she was blind-sided by what she thought she knew.”

 

So to sum up: the Hall weren't happy with Siuan from the start, Elaida had been working against her from the moment she returned from Andor, and she identified those willing to unseat Siuan. Sitters who were Black undoubtedly had orders to support this (my assumption). So it seems it came down to the fact that Elaida didn't trust Siuan to handle the Dragon Reborn, and others agreed. She did not believe that the Tower would revolt. I would guess the Black Ajah didn't arrange all of it - they just used the opportunity as it presented itself.

[mellojoe]

wow.  awesome.  thanks.

[azrael.1289]

I just always assumed AS were so busy manipulating everyone including each other for 3000 years, that they have no plans to deal with a situation where the Dragon is really reborn.