So I Watched **Return Of The King** Last Night...

[The Fisher King]

Of the Peter Jackson movies I really do still think Two Towers is my favorite.

 

ROTK still beyond magnificent though.

 

A few questions:

 

1 Where did those giant birds come from at the end that saved sam and frod and how come Gandlaf got to ride them around?

 

2 Is it true peter jackson had originally planned for frodo and sam to marry each other at the end?

 

3 I hate that the scene from the book where Aragorn tells Eowyn that he has wished her happines since he first saw her was not in the movie.

 

4 Alot of the stuff, including the battle, at that place where Denethor was Steward of seemed like a rehash of The Battle of Helm's Deep in two Towers.

 

5 Aragorn was selfish in marrying Arwen because all her whole family and friends were bout to sail away...he should have married Eowyn anyway...soooooo much hotter.

 

6 Denethors clearly insane in the movie...no hint is given to this in the book...

 

7 Thje Witch King is the BADDEST Bad men in movies ever!

 

8 Who were the Dead Folks that Strider hires - can you say Dues Ex Machina???

 

just a few thoughts....

 

 

Fish

 

 

[Werthead]

1 Where did those giant birds come from at the end that saved sam and frod and how come Gandlaf got to ride them around?

 

They originally appear in The Hobbit, the prequel to LotR. They are a special breed of giant eagles who have dwelled in Middle-earth for thousands of years (they also played a minor role in The Silmarillion) and are intelligent and can talk, although they don't in the films. Their leader is Gwaihir, whose aid Gandalf enlisted in The Hobbit. Gwaihir is the eagle who rescued Gandalf from Isengard in the first movie. In the books Gandalf reports trying to enlist the eagles' aid but they choose not to get involved because there aren't many of them left and they fear tackling the Nazgul over Mordor. After much debate they changed their minds, and turned up just in time to help at the Battle of the Black Gate.

 

The book does a much better job of setting them up though. In the movie they just show up from nowhere and the audience is left confused.

 

2 Is it true peter jackson had originally planned for frodo and sam to marry each other at the end?

 

What? No, not even remotely. Where did this idea come from?

 

3 I hate that the scene from the book where Aragorn tells Eowyn that he has wished her happines since he first saw her was not in the movie.

 

The movie is 3.5 hours long (in the cinema) and 4.5 hours long on DVD. They had to boot out a load of stuff to keep the running time down.

 

4 Alot of the stuff, including the battle, at that place where Denethor was Steward of seemed like a rehash of The Battle of Helm's Deep in two Towers.

 

Sort of, although Minas Tirith is much, much bigger and there's more activity with siege towers and trebuchets.

 

The movie version is actually quite bad for making the two battles too similar. In the book the war between Gondor and Mordor is much more active, there's more skirmishing and there's battles outside the city before Mordor lays the siege. In the book Minas Tirith also has an external fortification encircling the entire Pelennor Field where there is another big battle before Mordor is able to get to the city. Plus in the book the armies from Mordor break down the gates but can't enter before the Rohirrim arrive, whilst there's armies from the southern fiefs of Gondor arriving to help out.

 

The movie simplifies all this massively, which is a bit crap. Plus in the book the Army of the Dead doesn't save the day and are not even present at the battle. Aragorn shows up with a ton of normal reinforcements instead.

 

5 Aragorn was selfish in marrying Arwen because all her whole family and friends were bout to sail away...he should have married Eowyn anyway...soooooo much hotter.

 

Possibly, although Aragorn seemed to think that Eowyn wouldn't really have been happy with him. For one thing, he'd still have outlived her by a long time, so he thought she was better off with someone else, who turns out to be Faramir.

 

6 Denethors clearly insane in the movie...no hint is given to this in the book...

 

In the book he isn't insane, but his judgement has been clouded by him using a palantir to battle with Sauron. Boromir's death pushes him over the edge, but he still isn't a frothing madman like he is in the movie. The movie decides it would be too confusing to have more than one palantir around, so just makes out that Denethor is a nutjob from the start, which is lame.

 

7 Thje Witch King is the BADDEST Bad men in movies ever!

 

Not really. He doesn't do much. He stabs Frodo in the arm, gets killed by Merry and Eowyn and that's about it. The only really badass thing he does is beat up Gandalf in a fight (which he doesn't in the book).

[The Fisher King]

Thanks for the info, Wert!

 

These were fantastic movies...Im watching Fellowship tonight...it will be the first time I have seen it in about 5 years...I caught Two Towers and Return on cable over the weekend.

 

Its weird how these things teach us not to pre-judge something until we have seen it.

 

I was devestated when I heard Viggo was cast as 'Strider' - now I can't imagine ever wanting any other actor in the part...VM really allowed us to see the emotional layers of the character.

 

Richard Harris, Patrick Stewart, Leonard Nimoy, Ian Mckellan and Christopher Lee were all quality candidates as Gandalf to me...now I think Mckellan embodied the part perfectly...and in a way he never quite did as Eric in Xmen.

 

Weird Matrix guy NEVER warmed to me as Elrond...Tyler was surprisingly impressive....Didn't like how they made Gimli out to be sort of a drunk lunatic most of the time...the ''counting'' thing with Legolas and him wore tired to me pretty quickly...My two favorites though were Miranda Otta as Eowyn and Bernard Hill as Theoden...got a huge kick out of Brad Dourif as Grima (though that was another that seemed SLIGHTLY miscast imo)and John Noble as Denethor was AWESOME.

 

Also...did Faramir look to anyone else EXACTLY like I have always pictured Melanie Rawn's Rohan to be???

 

 

Fish

[Talmanes]

The counting thing is taken out of the book.

[Ashaman DeRouge]

Legolas railsliding the oliphant tusk is just pure unfiltered garbage. Tolkien must be rolling in his grave.

 

Aside from that, I think the movies are spectacular.

[Werthead]

And surfboarding his shield down the steps shooting orcs was a bit OTT. And Gimli being a bit thick and funny all the time.

 

Another problem I'd forgotten about (rewatched the trilogy this week) is that they spend the first 30 minutes of RotK wondering where Sauron is going to attack, which is why they need to go to Saruman for information. This doesn't make sense because the only place Sauron can logically attack is Minas Tirith, and Boromir spent the whole of the first movie fretting over Gondor's fate. It's a weird set-up that only succeeds in making Gandalf look a bit thick (and doesn't track with Gandalf's prophetic powers elsewhere, such as telling Aragorn about the black ships).

[The Fisher King]

A.D. and Wert...Yeah, the acrobatics of Legolas in the battle were a bit much...but, thats when you have to just remember, it WASN'T the book, it was a big blockbuster CGI movie and just go with it.

 

As far as the inconsistencies in the beginning of ROTK...I noted them too...especially odd when I can think of at least THREE times in the movies that it is specifically alluded to that Gandalf had the gift of Foresight...

 

As for Gimli...I soooo agree. I think the way I worded it above was that they portrayed him as a ''Drunk Lunatic'' most of the time, unfortunately...

 

Talmanes...It doesn't matter to me if that ''Battle Count Game'' came from the books or not...still hated it...got very trite very fast...JMO! : )

 

 

Fish

[Hallow]

A.D. and Wert...Yeah, the acrobatics of Legolas in the battle were a bit much...but, thats when you have to just remember, it WASN'T the book, it was a big blockbuster CGI movie and just go with it.

 

As far as the inconsistencies in the beginning of ROTK...I noted them too...especially odd when I can think of at least THREE times in the movies that it is specifically alluded to that Gandalf had the gift of Foresight...

 

As for Gimli...I soooo agree. I think the way I worded it above was that they portrayed him as a ''Drunk Lunatic'' most of the time, unfortunately...

 

Talmanes...It doesn't matter to me if that ''Battle Count Game'' came from the books or not...still hated it...got very trite very fast...JMO! : )

 

 

Fish

 

Doesnt matter that it's a movie, it's a movie that is marketed as sold as "The Lord of the Rings", when it then isn't the lord of the rings, people get upset.

[The Fisher King]

I hear you Hallow...

 

However, imo, OVERALL, the movies were not only spectacular but probably 90-95% faithful to the books in all the important ways.

 

You can not, in good conscience, grade Peter Jackson's film adaptations of LOTRs with anything other than the highest of all possible marks.

 

 

Fish

 

[Hallow]

I hear you Hallow...

 

However, imo, OVERALL, the movies were not only spectacular but probably 90-95% faithful to the books in all the important ways.

 

You can not, in good conscience, grade Peter Jackson's film adaptations of LOTRs with anything other than the highest of all possible marks.

 

 

Fish

 

 

I can and I have.

 

And 90-95%? Really? I'd suggest you take a look at this.

[The Fisher King]

Thats cool, Ive seen it before...Im just not a nitpicker...I choose to just enjoy it for what it is and go with the flow...

 

 

Fish

[The Fisher King]

Oh, one other BIG inconsistency I forgot to mention that caught:

 

In ''Fellowship'' the really creepy blonde elf lady tells Aragorn that they ''shall not meet again'' ...

 

Then, theyre together again in the scenes at the end of ''Return'' LOL!!!

 

Oh well, it smovie nonsense anyway...she never tells Strider any such thing in the book...

 

 

Fish

[Hallow]

Oh, one other BIG inconsistency I forgot to mention that caught:

 

In ''Fellowship'' the really creepy blonde elf lady tells Aragorn that they ''shall not meet again'' ...

 

Then, theyre together again in the scenes at the end of ''Return'' LOL!!!

 

Oh well, it smovie nonsense anyway...she never tells Strider any such thing in the book...

 

 

Fish

 

As much as I like to take a shot at the movies, Arwen (I take it you mean Arwen) said that because she didn't actually think they'd meet again, she was wrong, big deal.

[The Fisher King]

''As long as you'd LIKE to take a shot at them'' ?? - LOL!!! ... You crack me UP, Hallow!

 

BUT...No...not Arwen...Arwen had black hair and was not creepy...a little cold for my taste, but not creepy...

 

Im talking about the OTHER Elf Lady (She dooesn't live in Rivendell - she hangs out at the THE other Elf Place, the place I always sorta got the impression was like the ''Ghetto' version of Rivendell lol)...she is REALLY creepy and has long blonde hair...she gives the Gimli 3 strands of her hair and Legolas a special bow...She tells Aragorn they shall not meet again. Its near the end of Fellowship.

 

 

Fish

[Hallow]

Oh right sorry, I was in my own place earlier. Do they meet at the end of Rotk in the movie? Can't remember that.

 

Anyway, in the books (The way its supposed to be hrmph) Arwen's company meets up with Aragorn on the road north (Meaning not in Minas tirith, hrmph hrmph), they also meet up with Galadriel and they travel with her and Celeborn before they stop at the western side of Moria, at that point Galadrien and Celebron carry on alone.

[The Fisher King]

You do a Good TreeBeard!!! :)

 

 

Fish

[Hallow]

You do a Good TreeBeard!!! :)

 

 

Fish

 

Wasn't even intentional  ::)

[Werthead]

Then, theyre together again in the scenes at the end of ''Return'' LOL!!!

 

Galadriel and Celeborn do not travel to Minas Tirith for Aragorn's coronation. They do meet Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin when they go to the Grey Havens with Bilbo and Gandalf, but Aragorn isn't there. So Galadriel is correct when she says to Aragorn they won't meet again, because they don't ;)

[Hallow]

Then, theyre together again in the scenes at the end of ''Return'' LOL!!!

 

Galadriel and Celeborn do not travel to Minas Tirith for Aragorn's coronation. They do meet Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin when they go to the Grey Havens with Bilbo and Gandalf, but Aragorn isn't there. So Galadriel is correct when she says to Aragorn they won't meet again, because they don't ;)

 

They do dont they, I'm fairly sure that Arwen and Aragorn traveled north to Rivendell together with the rest of their company (The hobbits, Galadriel/Celeborn etc.). I could be reading the appendix wrong though.

[Völundr]

Answer to Question 1: The Giant Birds are just that; giant birds. They were related to the ones Bilbo and the traveling dwarves met in The Hobbit; Gandalf has had good relations with the eagles since and before then. If you read that story.

 

Answer to Question 2: No

 

Answer to Question 3: That scene is actually in the extended version of the movie. I highly recommend you buy it; I cannot abide watching the normal version since I got it because of all the additional details it has in it.

 

Answer to Question 4: I did not really see much parallels, other than giant armies. The war machinery was distinctly different in either battle, as well as the sides involved and the flow of the battle. Yes, people come charging in to save one side in dire straits, but what else can one do to create suspense and triumph in  a battle ?

 

Answer to Question 5: In accordance to the movie, he tried to force her away, although he truly did not want it; had Arwen not shown up in the end to his coronation, he probably would have married some Gondorian woman, since Eowyn by that time was claimed by Faramir.

 

Answer to Question 6: It does mention in the books that he was made mad by the visions shown to him in the Palantir he was keeping by Sauron.

 

Answer to Question 7: Maybe...

 

Answer to Question 8: The "Dead Folks" are suppose to be men who swore allegiance to aid Isildor in the second age against Sauron, but they wimped out and ran. Isildor apparently cursed them so that they would be living dead until the fulfilled their oath to his descendant. This was not in the book at all.

 

Hope that helped a bit.

[Werthead]

They do dont they, I'm fairly sure that Arwen and Aragorn traveled north to Rivendell together with the rest of their company (The hobbits, Galadriel/Celeborn etc.). I could be reading the appendix wrong though.

 

In the book, yes, but the question was about the films. After Galadriel says, "We won't meet again," in FotR, they don't meet again. In the book, I'm pretty sure she doesn't say "We won't meet again," so it's not a problem when they do.

 

That scene is actually in the extended version of the movie. I highly recommend you buy it; I cannot abide watching the normal version since I got it because of all the additional details it has in it.

 

Aragorn says to Eowyn that he can't give her what she's looking for and then takes the Paths of the Dead. He and Eowyn don't speak again in the film, even in the Extended Edition, although it does have the bit where Aragorn heals Eowyn after the Battle of the Pelennor.

 

The "Dead Folks" are suppose to be men who swore allegiance to aid Isildor in the second age against Sauron, but they wimped out and ran. Isildor apparently cursed them so that they would be living dead until the fulfilled their oath to his descendant. This was not in the book at all.

 

Yes they were, but in a different manner. In the books Aragorn takes the Paths of the Dead and the dead armies agree to fight for him, but once and once only. He leads them out of the mountain and gathers them together at the Stone of Erech. They then march on the city of Pelargir which has been occupied by the Umbarians. Some of the armies of the southern fiefs of Gondor are trying to relieve the city so they can end the Umbarian threat to their flanks and then they can march to the relief of Minas Tirith. Aragorn has the Army of the Dead destroy the Umbarian forces but leave their ships intact. The Army then vanishes and Aragorn leads the armies of Southern Gondor to the Battle of the Pelennor Fields using the abanoned ships.

 

The film does have a repeated continuity error where they say several times that Isildur was the last King of Gondor, but then make references to the Stewards only ruling Minas Tirith for a thousand years. This is in error as in the books the Kings of Gondor actually continued to rule for 2,000 years after Isildur before the last of them was slain in battle by the Witch-King before the Stewards took over.

[The Fisher King]

Also, theres this time in the beginning when they refere to Isildur as ''Isildur's Heir.''

 

Uh...No...Isildure was Isildur.

 

ARAGORN was Isildur's Heir - LOL!!!

 

 

Fish

[Hallow]

Also, theres this time in the beginning when they refere to Isildur as ''Isildur's Heir.''

 

Uh...No...Isildure was Isildur.

 

ARAGORN was Isildur's Heir - LOL!!!

 

 

Fish

 

They don't, he's referred to as the Heir of Elendil

[The Fisher King]

''They don't, he's referred to as the Heir of Elendil''

 

Whoooa! You're right!!! Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!!! - That has bugged me Fooorever LOL!!!

 

Maybe I should get my hearing checked lol! ;)

 

 

Fish