On A Topic Done To Death...(FoH)

[Majsju]

Care to explain how Shaidar Haran found Mesaana in Alviarins room?

 

Irrelevant. Why it is irrelevant is explained in the real thread.

[Mik]

Care to explain how Shaidar Haran found Mesaana in Alviarins room?

 

Irrelevant. Why it is irrelevant is explained in the real thread.

Ah yes, I see.

Thanks for clearing that up!

 

Why did Sharbon go and buy fruits for Carridin's -guest-, when it was a Myrddraal?

Maybe because it wasn't a Myrddraal when he sent Sharbon away for fruit...?

 

The door opened, and Sharbon hurried in, a plump man with a basket in his arms.

He stopped to stare at Carridin. “Master, are you all right? Forgive me for not being

here, master, but I went to buy fruits for your—” [<---this is where any servant would say 'guest', by the way]

 

With his good hand Carridin struck the basket from Sharbon’s hands, sending

withered winter apples rolling across the carpets, and backhanded the man across the

face.

“Forgive me, master,” Sharbon whispered.

 

I'm sure the answer is in the 150 pages of the same o' same o'...?

[Majsju]

The irrelevant part concerns the murder of Asmo. Read the real thread to see why.

 

 

[Mik]

The irrelevant part concerns the murder of Asmo. Read the real thread to see why.

You're a big help.

 

I'll go read the 150 pages -again-, if you answer those 2 questions anyway.

You know... just because you guys got it all figured out anyway.

[Majsju]

If you do not find the answer, raise the question in the proper thread and I will be happy to provide the answer.

[Jethro]

Maj, whats the point in being like that? You're replying in a thread you refuse to discuss the topic of. Why not just close this thread if it bothers you so much? I can see where you're coming from with people opening new threads for old subjects but you are'nt reacting to it very well

[Majsju]

Normally I do lock threads about Asmo as soon as they show up, but this was almost a full page when I saw it, so I left it alone. For now...

That does not change the fact that every question raised here has been ansered in the proper thread. And if people are afraid of the size of that thread, more than 2/3 are basically repetitions, and can be skimmed quickly.

[Jethro]

As I said I can see your point, only Im just surprised at the way you reacted. So, if this thread isnt going to be closed, its good to talk about it here whether or not there are more threads, right?

 

Not that Im telling you how to do stuff or anything, just a little surprised to see you reply saying you refuse to reply properly here.

 

Anyways, there are a hell of a lot of people that could have done the deed. I doubt it would be a Chosen, partly because of Asmos reaction-he had to have been expecting one of them sometime and his surprise to me looks like someone who wasnt expecting that particular person-and partly because RJ had begun involving a lot more characters around that time and another Chosen would almost have been the easy option.

 

I want it to have been Taim

[Mysterious]

Graendal killed Asmodean.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/chat/transcripts/2000/12/12/jordan/

 

Robert Jordan chats about his 'Wheel of Time' series

December 12, 2000

1:00 p.m. EST

Several years ago, when Robert Jordan wrote "The Eye of the World," he had no idea that his idea for a fantasy series would grow to nine books (and counting) and that an entire cottage industry would appear, devoted to his creation: the Wheel of Time. Now, every book that comes out -- the latest is "Winter's Heart" -- is an immediate bestseller, and that sound you hear is servers whirring with the constant e-mailing and message-posting of his fans, discussing the many aspects of Jordan's creation.

 

Jordan recently chatted with some of his fans on CNN.com about "Winter's Heart," the Wheel of Time, and the story behind the story.

 

Chat moderator: Welcome to the CNN chatroom, Robert Jordan.

 

Robert Jordan: Hello, It's good to have you all here, and thanks for having me.

 

Chat moderator: How did you develop the idea for the Wheel of Time saga, and where did you get the name?

 

Robert Jordan: The name comes out of Hindu mythology, where there is a belief that time is a wheel. Many older cultures believe that time is cyclic, that it repeats. In fact, I believe the best thing the ancient Greeks gave us was (the idea) that time was linear and change was possible.

 

Question from Infidel: What would happen to a gholam suddenly deposited, one way or another, into a stedding?

 

Robert Jordan: Read and find out. That is a common answer for me, by the way!

 

Question from Vercingetorix: Why do you think everyone has a hard time figuring out who killed Asmodean? Graendal killed him.

 

Robert Jordan: I don't know why people have a hard time figuring that out. To me it seems intuitively obvious even to the most casual observer. The reason I won't tell people though is that I am enjoying watching them squirm entirely too much. It's probably bad for me.

 

Question from Rhodric: What a kind of numbers militarily do the Seanchan have on this side of the aryth?

 

Robert Jordan: I don't want to answer this as it could be a spoiler for those who have not read far enough.

 

Question from logain: We know Taim isn't who he says, and so does Rand. But wasn't Logain supposed to reveal him as a liar? What happened to that?

 

Robert Jordan: Read and find out. Don't you love it, guys?

 

Chat moderator: Were you influenced by the Bible book of Revelation? Your works seem to have many scriptural allusions.

 

Robert Jordan: There are a number of influences from the Bible, but from other sources as well. My work is not overtly religious in any way.

 

Question from Arsolos: It has been reported that you have confirmed that Sammael died at the end of Crown of Swords. Could you confirm that you have said this and elaborate on whether Rand was correct?

 

Robert Jordan: Mashadar killed Sammael. Sammael is toast!

 

Question from dawntreader: Why does it take you about a year to two years to issue the next book?

 

Robert Jordan: Because it takes that long to write it. The earlier books also took a long time, but what was happening there was that the usual space between handing in the manuscript and the book being published, was shrinking in my case. Normally that is nine months to a year. For my last four books, however it has been two months from me handing in the manuscript to me being on tour.

 

Question from hoping: Where are the Trollocs? I miss them.

 

Robert Jordan: Read and find out! They're coming.

 

Question from Jonan: Mr. Jordan, is it possible that in another age, another turning of the wheel, that Saidar could be tainted instead of Saidin? This relates to the Female Dragon Theory.

 

Robert Jordan: That is not something I intend to explore.

 

Question from RawShock: What got you into writing fantasy?

 

Robert Jordan: Fantasy is an area where it is possible to talk about right and wrong, good and evil, with a straight face. In mainstream fiction and even in a good deal of mystery, these things are presented as simply two sides of the same coin. Never really more than a matter of where you happen to be standing. I think quite often it's hard to tell the difference. I think that quite often you can only find a choice between bad and worse. But I think it's worth making the effort and I like to expose my characters to that sort of situation.

 

Question from Telchar: Will the Choedan Kal be used again during the series, and if so, will other access keys be found? Let me guess ... read and find out?

 

Robert Jordan: This is my answer: You got that one right, sport!

 

Question from E_Tej: I see that many of the story lines are derived (from) mythology around the world. Which culture do you draw from more?

 

Robert Jordan: I'm not certain that I draw from any one culture more than others. Many myths and legends of many different cultures are really the same story when you get to the heart of it. They are often cultural cautionary tales about how we should behave and how we should live.

 

Question from twayne: When you started writing the series, were Osan'gar and Aran'gar in the original plotline, or were they added in as you went along?

 

Robert Jordan: They were in the original plot line.

 

Question from Cameo_Vox: The Isle of Maddness is mentioned in the coffee table book. Do you have any plans on incorporating it into one of the next books?

 

Robert Jordan: Read and find out! There are some things I might do that might take place there, but those things could also just as well be done in other places.

 

Question from Uno: Has there been any serious discussion about making a WoT movie?

 

Robert Jordan: Yes. Not a movie as such, but a miniseries. NBC has purchased an option to do a miniseries of "The Eye of the World." Most options are not exercised, however. If you want NBC to make the miniseries, write to them and say "make the miniseries of 'The Eye of the World.' "

 

Question from El-Loko: Did you have the entire storyline, bar a few details, before you even started writing Book One?

 

Robert Jordan: Yes. There were a good many details I didn't have, but the story line, the major events; those were all in my head. I could have written the last scene of the last book more than 15 years ago. And what happens in that scene would not be any different from what I intend to happen now.

 

Question from Rodynus: Was the name of Far Madding a literary allusion to An Elegy in a Country Churchyard?

 

Robert Jordan: No. That straight-out answer shocked you, didn't it?

 

Chat moderator: Has this saga taken on a life of its own over the years?

 

Robert Jordan: I am not sure what you mean. If you are talking about the claim by some writers that characters take on a life of their own and begin writing the story then, No. I created the story. I created these characters, and I am an Old Testament God with my fist in the middle of their lives. The characters do what I want. The story goes where I want.

 

Question from Elzabet: Does the healing of the taint reverse its previous effects? Or does the victim have to live with whatever he's gotten to that point and be grateful it won't get worse?

 

Robert Jordan: The second.

 

Question from Almindhra: Do you think literary critics take you seriously as a good writer despite your writing of fantasy?

 

Robert Jordan: Some do, and some don't. That's the way it always works. But I would like to add there is a lot of fantasy out there that does not call it fantasy. The magic realists are fantasists. (A.S) Byatt is a fantasist. A good many mainstream literary writers are fantasists. So maybe the critics won't put things down, just because they are fantasy, quite as readily as they once did.

 

Chat moderator: Why do stories of the titanic battles between good and evil seem to attract such a large and loyal audience?

 

Robert Jordan: Because most people believe in good and evil, in right and wrong. And I think most people would like to believe that they would stand on the side of good -- of right -- however they happen to define those things.

 

Question from GH: Mr. Jordan, what are the most crazy reactions you have received from your fans?

 

Robert Jordan: I suppose it's the people who believe that I am telling them the absolute truth: that there is a thing called channeling, and that I can teach them how to do it. I'm not a guru. I'm not a sage. I'm not a teacher. I am just a storyteller.

 

Question from MengLor: Where do you come up with the original spelling of the names of the characters?

 

Robert Jordan: Some of them come out of myths and legends. And others come because the sound is somewhat familiar, or because I like the sound of the name.

 

Question from Sil7ver: Is it true that many of your chracters are based on Norse mythos?

 

Robert Jordan: Not many. Some. And no character is purely based on one myth or one legend.

 

Chat moderator: What do you want readers to see in your books?

 

Robert Jordan: A good story.

 

Chat moderator: Thank you for joining us today, Robert Jordan.

 

Robert Jordan: Thank you very much for having me.

 

Robert Jordan joined CNN.com by telephone from Charleston, South Carolina. CNN.com provided a typist for him. The above is an edited transcript of the interview, which took place on Tuesday, December 12, 2000.

 

[Majsju]

Jethro, the death of Asmo is a quite special case as a topic. It is something that bothers a lot of people, since RJ refused to tell us who did it, and it apparently is not as easy to figure out as some other things. This means that the topic tends to pop up every now and then.

Now, a lot of other topics also pop up every now and then, so what makes Asmo such a special case? IMO, since we do not have a definite answer, only more or less well worked out theories, it makes sense to keep everything gathered in one thread, because unlike topics where quotes from the books or RJ can be used to show something, here we are in a greater need of seeing the discussions as a context.

 

That said, I am trying to herd people to the proper thread, because I feel less comfortable looking this since it had gone on for a bit before I caught it. See it as an experiment if I can make people do the right thing without having to resort to my mod-powers ;D

 

That said, Taim did not do it, and RJs answer to Vercingetorix was not a confirmation of Graendal being the killer. You know where to look  to learn more ;)

[Jethro]

Robert Jordan: I don't know why people have a hard time figuring that out. To me it seems intuitively obvious even to the most casual observer. The reason I won't tell people though is that I am enjoying watching them squirm entirely too much. It's probably bad for me

 

I dont think RJ confirmed anything at all there, he merely meant he doesnt know why people have trouble figuring out who killed Asmo. He enjoys watching us debate over it as he said, so he isnt going to say yes or no to "Graendal killed him," is he? To paraphrase, with RJ, the truth you get isnt always the truth you think it is.

 

Nice one for the quote, but RJ didnt do us any favors at all. Graendal very well might have done it but the quote proves only that RJ was again leading us on. Here is another example of him answering without giving a clear answer.

 

Question: At recent book signing following the release of Crossroads of Twilight, it was reported that you confirmed that the Forsaken Demandred has never posed as the man known as Mazrim Taim, who was introduced to Rand at the beginning of Lord of Chaos. Have you confirmed that Demandred has never posed as the man known as Mazrim Taim, leader of the Black Tower?

 

Robert Jordan Answers:Yes. Demandred has never posed as Mazrim Taim. All right, those of who fell over from the shock of a simple, straightforward answer can get up off the floor now. Sometimes, simple and straightforward can be the most devious of all, as any student of Aes Sedai will tell you[/quote]

 

Hes clever, aint he? I see the comment in bold as irrelevant to the rest; its a statement that is placed just right, so you can interpret it in many ways. And the way he wants us to interpret it is "Demandred never posed as Taim, but you're close." They arent close at all, I think Taim and Demandred are seperate geezers and always have been.

 

So yeah, I think he was misleading in the Asmo interview as well.

[Mr Ares]

Or a best friend, perhaps. An ashanderai wielding, wide-brimmed hat wearing friend. The attack happened - it was Melindhra's attempt on Mat with the dagger. The dagger with the bees on it. To draw Rand's attention to Sammael. On the other hand, Asmo is a manifest failure, as Rand doesn't even know he's dead (he thought he ran off), so there is certainly nothing to draw Rand's attention to Illian, which was the plan. Speaking of the plan, Rahvin is dead, Lanfear is dead, Sammael is waiting as bait in Illian...so where's Graendal at the end of FoH? What's she doing?

Why would they select someone they already have as a target though? And a Ta'veren at that? Its obvious they couldnt get hold of Rand, Mat and Perrin, so why would Sammael pick a target they're already having trouble getting at?

Er...what? They can get at Mat. They did. He was sleeping with a Darkfriend. The plan was to draw Rand's attention to Sammael. A part of that involved the possibility of someone close to him dying. A Darkfriend with an Illian dagger tries to kill Mat. If this was successful, it would draw attention to Illian. On the other hand, Asmo disappearing did nothing to further the plan. For one thing, Rahvin and Lanfear were gone by this point, making the plan somewhat redundant, and for another there is no link to Sammael or Illian. Rand doesn't even know Asmo is dead. So killing someone close to him cannot be evidence of Asmo's murder, because it doesn't fit with the plan.

 

That said, Taim did not do it, and RJs answer to Vercingetorix was not a confirmation of Graendal being the killer. You know where to look  to learn more ;)

At what RJ said? "The reason I won't tell people..."? When he's just told us? No.

 

Bashere is a Darkfriend.

You saying it won't make it so, Mik.

 

The points against Shaidar Haran & Moridin are all dung if you consider they are one and the same being.

No. Firstly, they are not the same being, except inside your head, and secondly neither can be the killer. "All clues are included up to The Fires of Heaven." What RJ said. So, all the clues are there to give us the answer to a mystery when the killer isn't introduced until the next book (and the book after that, if you believe this crazy rubbish you spout), and we don't see any resurrected Chosen until LoC. Doesn't work. Neither Shaidar Haran nor Moridin could be the killer. Once you have eliminated the impossible (including any Mik theory), then whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. What remains is Graendal. That is truth. You can close this thread now, Maj. This debate is over.

[Jethro]

Wheres the evidence, Mr Ares? Graendal might not have been doing anything we know of, but that hardly means anything when there are so many people who have the means of Traveling, stepping inside and outside of T'A'R and whatever else. The trip to kill Asmodean would have taken any channeler 5 minutes, wherever the killer was in the world, so whatever plans might have been holding the other Chosen down wont have been interrupted while they Travel, kill Asmo and drag his body through another gateway.

 

Anyone can say so-and-so did it, but nobody's gonna believe it until theres stuff to back it up. The only person who can be ruled out 100% is Padan Fain, because RJ selected him from a list of people to rule off.

[Shadowspawn]

Wow you guys are really negative towards each other. I was passing through and saw some interesting topics so I registered, but now seeing how the debates go and how close-minded many people here are I almost wish I hadnt registered

[Jethro]

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,9967.1800.html

 

Heres a link to the "real" thread on the Structured Board people, lets do this on there.

[Mr Ares]

Wheres the evidence, Mr Ares?

In the hundreds of pages of Asmo threads.

The trip to kill Asmodean would have taken any channeler 5 minutes, wherever the killer was in the world, so whatever plans might have been holding the other Chosen down wont have been interrupted while they Travel, kill Asmo and drag his body through another gateway.

Not so. Firstly, they would need a reason to go to Caemlyn, given that Asmo was not know to be there. Secondly, they would need to know their start point, which is not necessarily a 5 minute trip from anywhere in the world. Thirdly, they needn't remove the body if it was destroyed.

Anyone can say so-and-so did it, but nobody's gonna believe it until theres stuff to back it up.

There is.

The only person who can be ruled out 100% is Padan Fain, because RJ selected him from a list of people to rule off.

Not so, there are any number of people we can rule out. Demandred, for example, didn't know Asmo was dead until Shai'tan told him. If the guy didn't know, he couldn't have done it. We can rule him out, 100% And Moridin, Shaidar Haran, and anyone else not introduced already. Anyone not introduced does not fulfill the requirement of us being able to work out the killer based solely off the text published by that point.

[Hybrid]

What;s funny, is that the Nae'Blis is the only being who can always find the servants of the Shadow. For 'where there is shadow, there may it go':

Ishamael can find people in their dreams.  He hasn't actually hunted anyone down in real life as far as I can remember.

 

“Are you faithful . . . Bors?”

 

The hint of mocking in the name sent a chill down his backbone. “I am faithful, Great Lord. I cannot hide from you.” I am faithful! I swear it!

 

“No, you cannot.”

 

The certainty in Ba’alzamon’s voice dried his mouth, but he forced himself to speak. “Command me, Great Lord, and I obey.”

 

And later..:

 

“Wha . . . ” Carridin [bors] stopped to work moisture back into his mouth, to try bringing his voice back down to its normal register. “What are you doing here?” It still sounded shrill.

 

The Halfman’s bloodless lips quirked in a smile.[shaidar Haran v0,5, aka Ba'alzamon in Myrddraal form]  “Where there is shadow, there may I go.” Its voice sounded like a snake rustling through dead leaves. “I like to keep a watch on all those who serve me.”

 

…/ /…“I serve the Great Lord of the Dark, as you do. We both serve.”

“If you wish to see it so.” The Myrddraal laughed, a sound that made Carridin’s bones shiver..

Really?  All the Myrddraal had to do to find Jaichim Carridin was to look in the quarters of Jaichim Carridin.

 

If you disagree, think about how Shaidar Haran found Mesaana in Alviarins quarters....?

If Mesaana was not in Mesaana's quarters, she would likely be in Alviarin's, who is the head of the Black Ajah.  It's a far simpler problem than finding Asmodean in the maze that is Caemlyn's Royal Palace.

 

I think it's "obvious", especially if you consider that Shai'tan himself was the first to actually tell us - the readers- that Asmodean had bit the dust. (Demandred PoV)

Who better to inform him, then the creature standing right next to Demandred?

Yes, and Shai'tan also knew that Rahvin had been killed by Rand.  So how did he know that?

[Luckers]

Ok, this has gone back to the same old, so im shutting it down. Take i to the structured Asmodean thread guys.