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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

"ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL."


dreadlord

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That or it was Saidin speaking to him, but I'm aiming for the Creator ;)

 

 

kind of like how God supposedly needs other means to convey his message through prophets and angels like Gabriel or Metatron.

 

Well... since you opened the theological door.  :)

 

Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1Ch 17:3 And it came to pass the same night, that the word of God came to Nathan, saying,

 

An interesting parallel to WOT's creator and VOICE speaking to Rand wouldnt you say?

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Guest The Thin Inn Keeper

Well... since you opened the theological door.  :)

 

Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1Ch 17:3 And it came to pass the same night, that the word of God came to Nathan, saying,

 

An interesting parallel to WOT's creator and VOICE speaking to Rand wouldnt you say?

Sorry, how does that have anything to do with the passage here? Beyond the obvious The Creator = God?

 

Fine, there are some passages in the Bible that claim God can speak directly to Man.

 

What's the relevance? The idea of gods speaking to their followers is hardly revolutionary. Hell, the ancient Greco-Roman gods could have sex with theirs if they fancied it.

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Catholics believe that the Word of God is the holy spirit, part of the holy trinity. Note that there is a separate distinction and a union between the Word and God.

 

Geek note: Watch Kevin Smith's movie Dogma. It explains the story on god's voice rather amusingly and much better than I can conjure.

 

Most religions based on the God of Abraham note that God often uses angels and prophets to convey a message.

 

Note that the passage says that the Word of God came to Nathan. It does not say that God spoke to Nathan.

 

"Word" is quite different from "voice".

 

But I digress.

It may have been the Creator, not the Pattern. Not the Pattern, but a disruption in the Pattern allowing Rand to receive some sort of message from the Creator. Maybe a collective consciousness of personalities that have served the Pattern for the Light.

What makes up the pattern? Events? Lives? Souls? Do those souls have a voice?

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Catholics believe that the Word of God is the holy spirit, part of the holy trinity. Note that there is a separate distinction and a union between the Word and God.

 

Geek note: Watch Kevin Smith's movie Dogma. It explains the story on god's voice rather amusingly and much better than I can conjure.

 

Most religions based on the God of Abraham note that God often uses angels and prophets to convey a message.

 

Note that the passage says that the Word of God came to Nathan. It does not say that God spoke to Nathan.

 

"Word" is quite different from "voice".

 

But I digress.

It may have been the Creator, not the Pattern. Not the Pattern, but a disruption in the Pattern allowing Rand to receive some sort of message from the Creator. Maybe a collective consciousness of personalities that have served the Pattern for the Light.

What makes up the pattern? Events? Lives? Souls? Do those souls have a voice?

 

Then you are implying that the patter is a DISTINCY personality, not an autonomous program with a singlular purpose.

 

"I WILL NOT" denotes a personal and intelligent entity, not a running program such as the Pattern.

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argonath:

 

No, not the pattern, the Creator.

 

I wouldn't say though, that the creator would generally speak in a voice. Something was triggered by Rand's channeling. That's what I think happened.

I'm not sure how RJ proposes that someone can channel and reach the Creator at any given time, nor can I see the Creator watching like existence is on the television and can sometimes talk to the screen.

 

There's a constant that governs all of existence. There's a machine that brings all of the elements and mysteries of this universe's existence together in a more organized process. Something to translate.

 

That constant is the Pattern, which can be influenced by the One Power. If not the Pattern, then the Wheel of Time itself.

 

It just doesn't seem likely that the the Creator would directly contact Rand. Rand is after all, part of the Pattern through Lews Therin and being ta'veren.

 

There are some who believe that God is one with AND separate from the Word of God. Like the example I gave, that Catholics believe in the trinity with the holy spirit.

 

The Pattern may have similar relationship with the Creator.

Note though that people in the Wheel of Time more often than not, pray to the Light, not just the Creator. In fact, most just pray to the Light. I can;t help but get theimpression that it's a similar concept. Maybe the Light, the Pattern and the Creator are one...

 

But the Pattern having no consciousness as a singular entity, or personality does present difficulties.

 

It's a fascinating topic really.

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