Slaying the Dark One?

[Kipple Snacks]

There was something Herid Fel mentioned while speaking to Rand that, during both time reading through the book, made me concider that perhaps Rand would slay the DO. I don't remember the exact wods, alas I don't have the book either, should be Lord of Chaos chapter 18 though. I wish I found you guys while I still had the book. Can anyone help illuminate my theory, or at least shut it down so I can be at peace?

[Smoosh]

He can't slay the DO. I think its generally accepted that you cannot have ultimate good without ultimate evil...Without the DO, the Creator wouldn't exist. Hell, there are some theories that the DO and the Creator are two halves of one being. But beyond just theories....the Wheel of Time is a wheel (Duh.) It is a circle. So whatever happens now has happened before, and will happen again. One of the core problems with the DO (other than s/he is all big and evil and stuff) is that s/he wants to break the wheel, choke the serpent, therefore ending time as we know it. Then s/he has all the time in the world to corrupt humanity/ogier/anything else s/he can find. Overall badness.....so that can't happen. But back to the original point....RA'T can't kill the DO because, just like Satan can't be beaten, just vanquished, you cannot defeat evil....just postpone its plans.

[Jellybelly]

I do not really think Satan and the Dark One can really be comared too much. The Dark One is much more powerful.

 

But that's nitpicking. :P

[Kipple Snacks]

Yes, generally understood that it cannot be done, just there was something that sparked me from Herid. Oh well, guess I'm gonna have to goto the library and get the book again.

[dalic]

I think if the Creator is ready for the DO to die then Rand will kill him. He is the Creator. The DO only exists because the Creator does, but the Creator just exists. Besides which there will still be the general evils of humanity to deal with and leftover shadowspawn like Shadar Haran maybe or something worse. I don't think it's impossible that the DO dies. I mean if that was the Creator speaking to Rand in EotW then the Creator is going to extremes this time around on the merry go round.

 

And also if you read the end of the Book Satan is vanquished like a burnt turkey at thanksgiving. :p

[Featherless Hawkwing]

Wouldn't know about Satan being a burnt turkey ( :twisted: ) but I don't think too many comparisons can be drawn there. Satan (and, for that matter, Shai'tan, as I would call him) is in no way equal to God (i.e. the Creator). He is envious and impudent, whilst the DO is an equal and opposite force to the Creator. I think the only reason the DO isn't the Creator is because he didn't create this world, but only corrupted it. They're like two big-giant supernatural forces, one positive and one negative, like matter and antimatter (I'm not a physics expert; anyone who is, pipe up). The Creator, being the positive force, Created, and the DO, being a negative force, tried to destroy the Creation, and overwhelm it with Darkness.

 

In my opinion, God has the Devil liven things up a bit, rather than just chuck him. I would do it. If I'm disembodied, and am not so much a person as a force, or a kind of all-pervading energy, then I would need SOMETHING to amuse myself.

 

Anyway, the whole point of the Wheel of Time is that it is neverending, looping forever to spin its intricate web. The True Source, the two halves pushing in opposite directions, keep it going. What was, will be once more, and what will be, wil be, and will be again, for in time it too will be what was, anmd what was will in time become what will be. The goal of the Dark One is to destroy the Wheel and the Great Serpent, which is the eternal cycle. Were the DO to succeed, Time would cease to flow, and the DO would be free to recreate the world in his own image. Likewise, if he was destroyed, then Time would stop, as the opposite force to the Light would be gone, and the Wheel would be broken again. Thus, the Creator's vision unmade, the eternal cycle halted. Now, the world will be a mess after Tarmon Gai'don, and if the DO is dead, and Time stops there... yes, a whole lotta chaos. There MUST be Balance, and Rand's mission is not to finally create utopia for ever and ever and ever, but to maintain. To keep the balance, to see the rules followed. The DO is the Lord of Chaos, really, his power lying in lopsidedness, twistedness, and Death, rather than the natural balance of life and death.

 

Life and death, the Creator being life, and the DO being death. Since the Creator creates, he is the force behind Life, and complimenting this, is Death, which keeps it all moving along, and ensures that things happen the way they're supposed to, that the Great Serpent doesn't come to its senses and stop biting its own tail. The Creator, desiring balance, wants the DO to do his part, whilst the DO tries to actively destroy by wrecking the cycle, and causing death without life, meaning that the world can no longer sustain itself.

 

This is huge. Crap.

 

The Pattern of the Ages will be messed up royally if the DO dies, and besides, how will Rand do it anyway? I think Lanfear was off her rocker, thinking they could challenge either Creator or Shai'tan. What would you strike at? What would you challenge? What is there to challenge?

 

I will be disappointed if someone doesn't come up with an explanation involving conversion of energy or something involving power sources, if that is what the two feuding parties are.

 

You read all that? Dude...

 

But then, that doesn't bode too well for me, does it? Sigh...

[eldar89]

One thing I wanna know is when does the DO get his own age where he dominates and the forces of the light are like the dark forces in every other age? would that not truly be balance? or perhaps if time truly goes around, would there not be an end of time and then a new beginning as everything comes to pass? would not the lack of time be an Age, sort of the anti-matter to the matter of time? just a few philosophical thoughts for you to cogitate on...

[Luckers]

Never. It seems likely the Dark Ones intent is to destroy the wheel of time. I doubt he would just have control for a time without doing that.

 

And Featherless Hawking is correct... there is very little actual Christian ideological backing in the nature of either reality or the Dark One and Creator... All three states are far more eastern... Buddhist, Daoist, and the like.

[Lui2692]

If the Creator and the Dark One are equal and opposite forces then the Creator would also have to take a bigger hand in the fight against the Dark. Otherwise this seriously tips the scales in the favor of the Dark. However, we have not seen any involvment of the Creator up to this point and never will. Therefore is it not possible that Ishmael's Soul is an extension of the Dark One, ie when LTT sealed the prison it only partially sealed Ishmaels Soul allowing him to have free reign as a human for 3 thousand years? IF so this would make Rand the ideal counter balance as he can tap into the greatest amount of saidin and he has the choden Khal. So, When the Dark One breaks free, the other part of Ishmael's Soul and he becomes an all powerful force of darkness could not rand counter with choden khal?

[Luckers]

There is no direct proof that they are equal and opposite... or even if they are equal, that they are oposite. It may be that the Creator created reality to act as a fence and keep that pesky Dark One from bothering him, and doesn't give two hoots for the people that live in the pattern. It might be that the creator doesn't exist at all, and that the Wheel is a natural phenomena. Who knows. Assumptions at this stage are fairly unfounded since the only knowledge we have of the Creator is the common knowledge of the people of the Wheel, which has invariably turned out to be wrong at most stages... i.e. that Aes Sedai are darkfriends, that the Dragon tried to free the Dark One... and so on.

 

As for the rest, it seems incredibly unlikely. Ishamael and Rand are both just souls... humans. Shadar Haren may be some part of the Dark Ones essense, but the rest seems incredibly unlikely.