WOT will stand the TOT

[42Bonzo88]

     Sorry about the title, it looks stupid and funny at the same time ::)

 

     The Wheel of Time will stand the Test of Time!!

 

 

     I have been on this site for a few months and have enjoyed every minute of it. Sometimes I have had my ideas shot down, with good reason, but I have LEARNED something when it has happened.

 

    What I am getting at is all of the debating, discussing, ranting, raving, throwing chairs, calmly explaining, forcefully considering, fighting (with no blood loss) etc. and yet the books have held up!!

Consider how many times a question has been raised of Robert Jordan said something in this book and something different in this book. How many times was it proved right? Not very many.

 

    We have some extremely intelligent people on this site and yet there is always a way that Jordan has explained it so any discrepancies are taken care of. Yes, there might be a few and RJ has admitted to faults, but the overall series is so well written that we (as his closest followers) can rip it apart and it still stands!!

    Another example of a great writer!! Thanks again Robert Jordan!! And thanks to all of you that keep the series fresh and the excitement building!!

[GrandpaG]

Just think of all of the discussion after AMoL is released!!!

[Leopoled Boothe]

I think it unboubtedly will.  The series has been very popular in it own time leading many critic to call Jordan "The Tolkien of his time" and similar monicors.

 

Also, while Jordans illness and death was a great tragedy, one that I still have not gotten over and probably never will get over, it also has provided and will continue to provide an great source of publicity for series.  Not only is WOT a great fantasy series in its own right, but it also has a very heart-felt human interest story tied to it, the story of an aurthor  who spent nearly two decades perfecting his masterpeice, contracted a deadly illness near its completion but like a trooper kept on working right up until the bitter end.  Twenty years down the road I can see fantasy prone teens and pre-teens taking an interest in this series and asking why this Brandon Sanderson's name is on the last book when he was in no way invloved in the rest of the series.  Getting the explaination will make the series that much more interesting to them I would imagine.

 

I hope this hasn't come off as cold.  I'm not trying to reduce Jordan's illness and death to a publicity motiff nor am I trying to exploit it as such.  I'm simply stating the effect that I think it will ultimately have on the series.  I guess I'm trying to find that oh so thin silver lining on the enormous black cloud that has hung over our heads since early 2006.  Jordan's illness and death should never actively be used as a point of publicity for WOT, but still he deserves to have his story told (I mean if someone ever writes "The Biography of James Oliver Rigney" I will be first in line to buy it) and it will inevitably have some effect on the future of the series.

 

 

[RAND AL THOR]

I love the series.

 

There are many critics of the WoT on the internet. There was so much negative thought that I was utterly shocked. The WoT is just so wonderful. Some people accused RJ of using cliches.

 

farmboy becomes hero- it was done so well by RJ that I cannot call it a cliche. It is unpredictable. In the Belgariod, I could tell what was about to happen. Not so with WoT.

 

Evil Dark Lord-It is very different in WoT. Most fantasy books do not show POV of the bad guys. The WoT does however , and we get closer to the Forsaken by this. We recognize them as normal humans with human emotions and desires. We can identify the bad characters as having individual goals and pleasures.

 

Prophecy- huge criticism. But, the prophecies in WOT are far too spledidly written to be considered a cliche. The most obvious one: RAND IS DOOMED TO BREAK THE WORLD. Very few prophecies in other fantasy books involve the main character doomed to destroy the world.

 

I just love WoT. But I do agree on some things proposed by critics:

 

1) The WoT would have more readers if the first book had been less like LOTR.

 

2)Less description would have been ideal. There is an unnecessary amount of description in some places.

 

3) First book starts too slowly. Action ought to have come sooner. I recommended the book to several readers and many dropped it because they found the first few chapters too boring to continue.  :(

 

4) After book 4, RJ started losing control of his world.

 

So there are some bad points. But I still love WoT and continue to read at least a chapter from one of the books every day despite having read them all several times already.  :)

[Lille]

RAND AL THOR: alot of what you say is true, but i have to disagree on point nr 2.

2)Less description would have been ideal. There is an unnecessary amount of description in some places.

 

This is one of the best things, you can really make an image of how things looks and feels because of this.

About a year ago i bought all the Warcraft books, i love the games and the lore so i decided to read them. Most of the books was good, but one of them  was really boring just because it lacked descriptions, what was a pretty good story became very boring and i would've stopped reading if it wasnt that i wanted to have read it :P

[RAND AL THOR]

RAND AL THOR: alot of what you say is true, but i have to disagree on point nr 2.

2)Less description would have been ideal. There is an unnecessary amount of description in some places.

 

This is one of the best things, you can really make an image of how things looks and feels because of this.

About a year ago i bought all the Warcraft books, i love the games and the lore so i decided to read them. Most of the books was good, but one of them  was really boring just because it lacked descriptions, what was a pretty good story became very boring and i would've stopped reading if it wasnt that i wanted to have read it :P

 

I stand by my original post.

The degree of description the Wheel of Time is one of the reasons why it is a bestseller. We practically live the life of the characters. However, in some places it gets boring/irritating.

Especially, at certain points in the story, where events are moving fast and something important/dramatic is happening, we are extremely anxious to find out what happens. A lot of description in places such as this (while helpful in imagining the situation) just gets in the way. I wish that RJ had put less description and more action is such places.

[Leopoled Boothe]

4) After book 4, RJ started losing control of his world.

 

How so?  Please explain.

[RAND AL THOR]

4) After book 4, RJ started losing control of his world.

 

How so?  Please explain.

 

Before I begin, let me state that I am NOT a critic of the WoT-quite the opposite.

 

Right. After Book 4 the story line began shifting away from Rand/Matt/Perrin, bringing in the POV of many different characters. This brought in distance between myself (as a reader) and the more important characters in the story. Books 10 and 11 especially hardly focus on Rand at all. The reasons for this happening are obvious.

 

-The world made by RJ is huge. He attempted to bring the whole world into the story and not leave things out (though Arad Doman is not involved very much).

-Consequently he had to spend a lot of time in other parts of the world even if the main characters are elsewhere. For that he needed to bring in characters into those regions.

-Rand needs to bind all the nations to him. This brings politics into the story. There are so many plots against him etc....

-The story gets very elaborate after Rand accepts his fate and many many sub-plots develop. To incorporate all the sub-plots the story had to shift to the POV of many characters. This made the story slightly boring in certain areas.

 

Thats about enough I think. I began losing touch with Rand etc after book 5. I got frustrated at times when I keep starting chapters and Rand is not there.

 

Once again, I am not a critic but no matter what anyone says- the point is true- RJ started losing control of his world in later books.

[Jellybelly]

Once again, I am not a critic but no matter what anyone says- the point is true- RJ started losing control of his world in later books.

 

Oh, great then. So long as you say it is true, the rest of us will meekly accept the viewpoint. How rewarding it must be to have a real discussion with you. But then again, maybe not. It is notoriously difficult to argue with someone who says "I am inherently right, therefore you must accept my stance".

 

Feel free to present evidence of why RJ lost control of his world at any time, and no, what you already provided is not good enough.

[Jelly]

While I don't agree with you that he lost control of his world...

 

I got frustrated at times when I keep starting chapters and Rand is not there

I felt the same way. I was tempted to skip chapters, myself, though decided not to because I like to read the whole of a book.

 

[Corbett]

I agree with Jellybelly, I dont see how he lost control. Yes the story didno focus so much on the main characters but it was INTENDED not to. If RJ had wanted he could have just stuck with his characters and gone on, but he decieded to show us the world. This, IMO, is one of the best things about WoT.

[RAND AL THOR]

Once again, I am not a critic but no matter what anyone says- the point is true- RJ started losing control of his world in later books.

 

Oh, great then. So long as you say it is true, the rest of us will meekly accept the viewpoint. How rewarding it must be to have a real discussion with you. But then again, maybe not. It is notoriously difficult to argue with someone who says "I am inherently right, therefore you must accept my stance".

 

Feel free to present evidence of why RJ lost control of his world at any time, and no, what you already provided is not good enough.

 

Different people have different viewpoints. Frankly. I'm convinced that RJ had difficulty maintaining his work later in the books (especially annoying was the abrupt end to Elayne's trouble getting the throne). I just meant to say that I likely will not change this view whatever anyone says. Feel free to criticize. I don't mind. I'm certainly not one of those guys who don't accept any criticism whatsoever and are convinced that they are right.

 

Once again, I am not a critic but no matter what anyone says- the point is true- RJ started losing control of his world in later books.

 

 

Feel free to present evidence of why RJ lost control of his world at any time, and no, what you already provided is not good enough.

 

It is not something that I can explain through words. When reading the latter books, I did not feel the same emotional satisfaction, excitement etc that I got when reading the first 3 books. If I chose re re-read any of the books I would almost certainly choose the EOTW, TGH or TDR. It is not something that I can explain through point and arguements. It is a general feeling.

I agree with Jellybelly, I dont see how he lost control. Yes the story didno focus so much on the main characters but it was INTENDED not to. If RJ had wanted he could have just stuck with his characters and gone on, but he decieded to show us the world. This, IMO, is one of the best things about WoT.

 

Yes its true that showing us the whole world was very interesting as many authors do NOT do this.

However, I disagree with one point there. I don't think RJ could have focused more on his main characters. That was precisely my former point. If he left out chapters with the POV of so many lesser characters, then the story would not have progressed as smoothly as it has. Nevertheless, I think he could have avoided getting into a situation where he is having to bring in more characters and include a variety of POVs to keep the story pacing correctly. To understand what I am saying, you need to put yourself into the writer's perspective and not the reader's perspective.

 

Further counter-arguements are welcome. I intend to clarify my point.  ;)

[RAND AL THOR]

 

Once again, I am not a critic but no matter what anyone says- the point is true- RJ started losing control of his world in later books.

 

I guess I should have phrased that differently. What I meant to say that I very likely will not change my mind no matter what anyone says on this matter. I just felt that the latter books were more distant than the former books.

 

In truth, if there is anyone who has actually enjoyed all the books equally- I would really envy that guy. ;)

[42Bonzo88]

    See!! This is exactly why I love the series so much!! We all have our different viewpoints, coming from the different people we are (Please see different points of view by Trakand01). And yet we all agree that the WOT is one of the greatest series of all!! Some people like just the 3 boys part of the series, others all the different nations, some the One power, some the forsaken, yet we can take all of these things and find one series to satisfy. Can any other series take so much and not only keep it straight, but make it wonderful!!

 

    Please keep up the comments!! All of you are great in your POV's.

[Leopoled Boothe]

4) After book 4, RJ started losing control of his world.

 

How so?  Please explain.

 

Before I begin, let me state that I am NOT a critic of the WoT-quite the opposite.

 

Right. After Book 4 the story line began shifting away from Rand/Matt/Perrin, bringing in the POV of many different characters. This brought in distance between myself (as a reader) and the more important characters in the story. Books 10 and 11 especially hardly focus on Rand at all. The reasons for this happening are obvious.

 

-The world made by RJ is huge. He attempted to bring the whole world into the story and not leave things out (though Arad Doman is not involved very much).

-Consequently he had to spend a lot of time in other parts of the world even if the main characters are elsewhere. For that he needed to bring in characters into those regions.

-Rand needs to bind all the nations to him. This brings politics into the story. There are so many plots against him etc....

-The story gets very elaborate after Rand accepts his fate and many many sub-plots develop. To incorporate all the sub-plots the story had to shift to the POV of many characters. This made the story slightly boring in certain areas.

 

Thats about enough I think. I began losing touch with Rand etc after book 5. I got frustrated at times when I keep starting chapters and Rand is not there.

 

Once again, I am not a critic but no matter what anyone says- the point is true- RJ started losing control of his world in later books.

 

Personally I don't believe that RJ ever lost control but that the story is unfolding just as he always intended.  He seems to be using a differnt formula that most story tellers, buy it is a formula that really works and that I have come to enjoy.  He uses the first part of the story (about the first five books) to introduces he main characters, the future heros of TG, to tell us where they came from and how they become there great people that they are eg The Dragon Reborn, The Wolf King, The Lucky General the Teenage Amyrlin etc, etc.  By the end of TFoH they have all more or less found the niche that will lead them to greatness, eg Rand has been declared both The Dragon Reborn and Car'a'carn, Perrin has become the Lord of the Two Rivers and has married into the royal family of Saldea, Mat has attatined both his luck and his memories and has achieved his first military victory in defeating Couladin (SP).  If I remember correctly Egwene doesn't become Amyrlin until a little later (book 6 or 7) but it not long after TFoH.  Once the main characters are established as the great men an women they were destined to become he uses the middle portion of the story (about books 6-10) to demonstrate how they are influncing the world as a whole, how some are inspired to follow them while others are inspired to oppose them.  The main characters are still there, and are still growing and developing but there is also a greater emphasis on the lesser characters who are caught up in their wake.  The last portion of the story (books 11-12) will tell how the characters introduced in the first portion will, with the support of those they influnced in the second protion, ultimaltly go on to win TG and fulfill thier ultimate destiny.  You should notice that in KoD the main characters (particularly Rand and Perrin) begin to become prominant once again and play larger roles than they have in the previous five books.

 

So to sum up the story is divided into three main themes. They do not have clear cut off points and bleed into one another quite a bit but the following is rough estimate of where each is found.

 

Theme #1:  The main character are introduced and developed, they go from obsurity to renoun (Books 1-5)

 

Theme #2:  Now that they have become renouned they naturally begin to influnce the world and gain supporters and enemies (Books 6-10)

 

Theme #3:  The heros use the support they have obtained to lead the world in TG and fulfill thier ultimate destiny (Books 11-12)

 

   

[Jonn]

I would suggest reading Brandon Sanderson's blog about his re-read of the series, as a source for some perspective.

He is unapologetically a huge fan of RJ's and therefore biased, but I think his observations on the series' progression is quite enlightening.

 

I had the pleasure of starting the series at book 4 by chance and I started in the middle of that book, so for a good two days I was reading from the middle thinking the main character was Perrin...And now I come to realize that if you cut out all of the parts that do not contain Perrin in it, the series would probably be just as fascinating. You could do that with just about any of the main characters.

 

To prove that, RJ in fact did cut Rand out of books for the most part. Book 3 had little of Rand. It was a big chase novel, everyone hunting him and it was all from the perspective of the hunters. Fascinating stuff.

 

In book 11, much the same.

 

The cast of characters is a huge part of this series and the point being made is that there is never a hero that exists in a fantasy novel that can do it all by their lonesome.

 

If you read the series again, there are parts that are conceived in book one, that only come to make sense by book 6 or 7. There are puzzles from book 4 that are solved in book 6. There are carefully constructed story lines that run through the entire series, and in such detail that it becomes very obvious that the entire story was meant to unfold the way it has.

 

If you are impatient or stubborn, self-righteous, about the series, chances are, you won't enjoy it as much. And for those people, I feel sorry. You've missed a great joy just because you want it all your own way.

 

There are portions of this series that have baffled me,displeased my sensibilities, but art is supposed to do that to you. You're supposed to ask questions, think about what the artist is trying to tell you and struggle to accept truths because of it. Or you can reject it.

 

RJ emerged as a great artist through this series and people will talk about it for years to come.

[RAND AL THOR]

The Dragon Reborn, The Wolf King, The Lucky General the Teenage Amyrlin etc, etc. 

   

 

I love those nicknames!!! ;)

[Leopoled Boothe]

The Dragon Reborn, The Wolf King, The Lucky General the Teenage Amyrlin etc, etc. 

   

 

I love those nicknames!!! ;)

 

Thanks, the first two are from the books the other two were just off the top of my head.