I Believe Channeling Burn Out Cannot Be Healed(Sort Of)

[Lady Saravhem]

Okay this is why I sort of believe this theory of mine. I was recently re-reading the the World of Wheel book and was reading the section about severing and burn out and how it was thought they could not be healed until recently, when severing had been healed by you know who - no not Voldermort- and it went on to explain what severing and burn out were.

 

Severing = when a channeler deliberately has the ability to channel torn from them ( yes we all know this) but it goes on to say they can still sense the source just tantilizingly out of reach taunting them.

 

 

Burn Out = when a channeler accidentally destroys their ability to channel by drawing more than they can safely handle ( Yes we all know this too) but it says then that those who are burned can no longer sense the source.

 

So it is my thoughts that when a person is severed it is not actually the ability itself that is severed but is instead whatever it is in a person that connects them to the source is removed. That is why Nyneave thought to use a brigde to make a connection. The ability was still there but the connection was not. So therefore it is like any other wound and is healable.

 

But people who have burned themselves out cannot even feel the source any more. So I seems that it should not be able to be healed because the ability to sense the source is gone, there is nothing left to reconnect to and this makes burnout unhealable.

 

So anybody got any thoughts. And if this has already been posted I'm sorry. I'm just wondering what other ppl think about this idea. Let Me know.

[Guest Barmacral]

One major hole in that theory. They can't even begin to sense the source when they are severed. What they feel is a longing for something they can't have, its like a chain smoker who suddenly has had all cigarettes taken away from them forever (lets say the cigarettes all got sent to mars on the last space ship ever), they want them so desperately that they might die from want, but they can't have it. They feel the craving to smoke, but they can't even see a cigarette, let alone smoke one.

[Rufae]

Actually that is not quite right. Being severed (using your analogy) is like putting a chain smoker in the room full of cigarettes behind glass windows. They can see the cigarettes and maybe even smell tobacco, but they cannot reach out and grasp it.

 

Burnout is the sensation total and absolute loss.

 

Lady>> I for one and in agreement with you. How can you heal something that is not there any longer? It's like Rand's hand. There was nothing left to heal.

[Lady Saravhem]

Okay so why don't the ppl who are burned out get that same feeling, if all they are feelin is the desire to reach the source then both groups should have that feeling.

 

And RJ World of The Wheel of Time says the severed can feel the source on page 21 and 22

and I quote:

 

"The severing of a man from the True Source is now known as 'gentleing'. He can still sense the Power, but is unable to touch saidin in any way"......and "The stilled woman, like the man who has been gentled, is cut off from the True Source, always tantalized by the sense of saidar, yet unable to touch or channel it." and "The woman who is burned out can neither channel nor sense the power."

 

Those are direct qoutes from the book.

 

So they have to be sensing something other then just the desire to channel.

[Luckers]

I disagree for a couple of reasons. Firstly there is the issue of your definitions.

 

Severing = when a channeler deliberately has the ability to channel torn from them ( yes we all know this) but it goes on to say they can still sense the source just tantilizingly out of reach taunting them.

 

Ok, for starters severing was a term used to cover both stilling and burning out in the Age of Legends. Secondly, stilling does not involve the ability to channel being torn out, it involves the--i suppose ethric arm, or whatever you want to call it--connection between the channeler and the Source being sliced. It is describe almost like a piece of string that has been cut in two. Concider Nynaeve's descriptions.

 

The knife-sharp shield that Egwene had used to still Amico Nagoyin sprang into being, more weapon then shield, lashed at Moghedian - and was blocked, woven spirit straining against woven spirit, just short of severing Moghedian from the True Source forever. [tSR - Into the Palace - 924]

 

[Nynaeve studying Logain] vast emptiness. Nothing. What about what she had found with Suine and Leane? The feel of something cut? Men and women might be different, but maybe... [skipping ahead a paragraph while Nynaeve rants to herself about Rand and Elayne] ... there it was! Something cut. Just a faint impression, yet exactly the same as with Suine and Leane.[LoC - Fire and Spirit - 599, 600]

 

Now, note that in both Suine, Leane and Logain the sense is of something 'cut'. The intentional action by which Aes Sedai stop people channeling is an action of slicing. And that action of slicing is what they name 'stilling' or 'gentling'.

 

Burning Out, as your point out, is different. It is more complete for starters. Rather then refering to a process of slicing a connection, it refers to an extinguishing of the ability, and is much more complete.

 

Why am i saying this, when it seems to be a point in your favour? Because of Sashalle, Irgain and Ronaile.

 

Before i address them though, we have to address the other difference that we as readers percieve between stilling and burning out. That being that the first is intentionally enacted by someone, the other is the result of an accident. When Sashalle, Irgain and Ronaile were severed, it was described that they were stilled, since it was enacted intenionally by Rand. However, if we look at the description of what Rand does, it far more closely mataches the description of Burning Out then it does of stilling. Here;-

 

When he reached for saidin the invisible barrier was still there, but it no longer seemed brick, or stone. It gave when he pressed, bending under his presure. Bending, bending. Suddenly it tore apart before him like rotted cloth. The power filled him, and as it did he seized the three soft points, curshing them ruthlessly in fists of spirit. [LoC - Dumai's Wells - 994]

 

Certainly, whatever it was that Rand did, it was not stilling. It was an intentional act, yes, but it was not the cut of the stilling weave Nynaeve describes as a knife-sharp weapon. Indeed, its possibly that it was not even the weave Rand used that severed them from the True Source, but rather the strain the tearing shield combined with the curshing preasure of that weave. The complete nature of it, rather like extinguishing the flame of a candle between two fingers, much more closely matches Burning Out.

 

Intentional, not accidental, but for methodological purposes pretty damn similar in effect.

 

Which brings us to the issue that later on, Damer Flinn heals Sashalle, Ronaile and Irgain.

 

The next piece of evidence is Cyndane. Now, i know her situation is in massive contention, so i want it clear im not offering it as difinitive evidence, however her situation does present us with some fairly suggestive evidence that should probably be raised.

 

Now, in the hope of not turning this into a Cyndane's Strength thread, let me preface by saying their are other positions. I'm only offering one of them because it may be relevant. If we do wish to discuss that particular train of thought we should probably start another thread. In any case the evidence is this.

 

1. Lanfear and Moiraine, in the act of fighting each other fell into a ter'angreal that subsequently exploded.

 

2. We have been warned since the beginning of the series the dangerous nature of channeling near ter'angreal.

 

3. The finns managed to contain both Moiraine and Lanfear for sometime despite the fact that both possessed angreal, and we have seen channeling work effectively in the realm of Finnland, against the Finns. Additionally Lanfear knew what she was dealing with.

 

4. Lan's bond was broken. To date we have only seen two causes for the breaking of a warder-bond, death and being severed from the True Source. (This is not to say there arn't potentially other methods - again, just stating what we know, for the specific purposes relative to this discussion--it should also be noted that the severing of Lan's bond was not caused by Moiraine intentionally releasing it as that does not cause the observed death-absortion affect in the warder).

 

5. When we next see Lanfear as Cyndane, she is weaker in strength. This is again an effect we have only ever seen caused by being severed, and then healed.

 

So essentially this evidence has been used to suggest that Moiraine and Lanfear were both burnt out when they fell through the ter'angreal. It seems unlikely they were still concidering it happened to both of them in the instant they fell through the door. On a personal note, given the nature of the incident, the contention between the two, and the ter'angreal's destruction i find it imensely unlikely that they weren't burned out, but thats just me.

 

Now, the theory then goes on to suggest that Lanfear, after dying, was reborn as Cyndane. Since, through Aran'gar, we know that the channeling state remains constant through the transmigration process, it seems likely that when she was recycled she remained burned out. The theory continues that an Aes Sedai was sent for by way of dream to Aran'gar, who healed Cyndane.

 

The situation fits in terms of timeline. We know that the Shadow would have just debriefed Moghedian--and even if it hadn't, the likelyhood that the Shadow hadn't heard of this marvel from the Black Ajah is low. We know that at any one time since the rediscovery of travelling that a revolving amount of around 20 sisters have been missing from the Rebels. It would have been easy for a Black Sister to travel to shayoul Ghoul, heal Cyndane, and return.

 

Now there is an argument that has been suggested refering to the comparison between Suine and Leane's decrease in strength, and Cyndanes. Personally i feel that comparison is inacurated because of the influence Suine and Leane's much more dramatic decrease in the limited range of the Aes Sedai social hierarchy, but again, a topic for another thread.

 

In any case, between Cyndane, Sashalle, Ronaile and Irgain, we have some fairly suggestive evidence that prepare at least the possibility of healing Burn Outs. But there are some other, much more circumstantial facts that at lease lend themselves to the possibility.

 

The first is Moiraine. Irrespective of how Cyndane got healed, Moiraine does not have the Dark One. Now some suggest that the Finns and their giftgiving practices are in play, though i dont agree (again, a discussion probably best suited to another thread). But then, for that matter we dont even know for sure that Moiraine will be healed. It is my belief, however, that RJ will heal her, probably out of the pure romanticism of the position. As i said, not even remotely deductive, but i believe it does contribute to the possibility.

 

The second is that it has been commented on by Aes Sedai that it was much harder now to keep the novices from rushing ahead since there was no chance of them losing the ability altogether. Certainly it seems to be common belief amongst Aes Sedai that burning out can be healed. Hardly conclusive, since Aes Sedai make grandiose assumptions all the time, and we have no evidence to suggest that a novice has as yet burnt herself out, and been healed, but still... suggestive.

 

The final piece is pure fiction on my part, but something i believe will play a part. Specifically i believe that Setelle Anan will be instrumental in addressing the damane situation, and that her ability to channel will play a part in that. As i said, there is absolutely no evidence, and certainly no deep requirement for her to be healed in order to be instrumental in influencing Tuon given her established relationship with the woman... indeed it might even be detrimental, but still... its something that plays on my mind.

 

So, anyway, in conclusion, i concede that there is an argument against the healing of Burn Outs in the more complete nature of Burning Out, but i think there is a lot of suggestive evidence for the possibility.

[Lady Saravhem]

perhaps yes; perhaps no. I am going by what I have read in the big white guide book, you know the one.

 

And perhaps what Rand did to those three at the wells was how a man severs a person from a source, we all know men and women go about things differently using the power; and up until that point it was only the women who were severing anybody. So were maybe a woman cuts that which connects a person to the source; a man may crush whatever it is that conects a person to the sources. I don't think that another person can take away the ability to channel; they can only damage the bridge that allows them to reach for the source.

 

Maybe burnout can be healed, but from all that I have read in the guide books it seem improbable. Like what Rufae wrote earlier about Rand's hand it's gone and what is gone cannot be healed, and when burned out all sense of the sources is gone. But with severing it is as if the source is on one side of a deep abyss and the person is on the other. The person can see the source maybe even feel the heat from the source, but they cannot reach it any longer because their bridge to it has been damaged.

 

That's all I got to say about that.

[Lady Saravhem]

:D For now any way.

[Arath Faringal]

I like to compare channelers to lightbulbs. Stilling/Gentling is like unscrewing the bulb. It can still work, but its just disconnected. Burning out, is like a a burnt out bulb. Screw it back in as much as you want, but its never gonna light up again. Beyond repair.

[Luckers]

And perhaps what Rand did to those three at the wells was how a man severs a person from a source, we all know men and women go about things differently using the power; and up until that point it was only the women who were severing anybody. So were maybe a woman cuts that which connects a person to the source; a man may crush whatever it is that conects a person to the sources. I don't think that another person can take away the ability to channel; they can only damage the bridge that allows them to reach for the source.

 

Well no, we know from that quote of Nynaeve's that it is a sharpened shield weave that results in stilling. We have seen Rand utilize shield weaves with a similar methodology--it cuts through the connection.

 

That, combined with the Age of Legends term severing, again implying the cut, makes me think the method of severing someone from the true source was the same for men or women.

 

Moreover, when would a man have access to the soft points without the interlock of a shield?

 

I'm sorry, but the combination of suggestive evidence is too much for me. I believe that it can be healed.

[Beckon]

I got the impression the 3 soft points were the shield. Remember the points went hard when they tied them off, same points still there after the channeler stops maintaining. It seems to me that those three were actually burnt out because of the violence and/or method with which Rand broke the shield.

[Guest Barmacral]

From what I understand, the three soft points were merely the point where the Aes Sedai was maintaining the shield, and the only part where it could be broken. The rest of the shield could be felt as well, although rather unbreakable.