Sailor Moon Mafia [Advanced] Game Thread

Fredwood · July 18, 2017

This is how I took this post.

Scruff flipped villager and immediately you're on Cuth for clearing FC for meta, which the meta bs is why I voted FC in the first place. If you saw that, why didn't you change to FC? You mentioned FC was your other D1 pick, but never really read into him, which is why I just read this as being scumtastic.

I think it was very obvious I wanted the tie, in fact I brought up that a tie was the best move at the time. In fact if you check it was all kind of at the same time where CLov suggested MrsClov or Sooh switch (they were "confirmed" town atp) to switch to even lynches. MrsCLov did, and Sooh made a "mistake" which required Bop to vote FC because.. So that tells you Clov, Bop and me all thought the tie was the right town move at that point, then that should be the answer to your own question.

Also I still had no reason to wolf read FC day one, I thought his participation warranted a second day over Scruffs. I didn't think Scruff deserved a day 2 because he had no interest in participating further. The way the lynch played out was perfect for town.

The tie was so we wouldn't hit maj before EoD talk/moves. At least that was Bop and my thoughts. I'm willing to bet that was also Corys thoughts as well.

Not to have a tie vote at the every end. We wanted a FC kill, but that didn't happen.

No that is not why we wanted the tie. You should go and reread that just to learn why it makes sense from a game theory standpoint.

EOD1. How many question marks are there? And how many question marks were there off the two best lynches (Scoobs/Scruff) In fact there was an alt wagon on eld at 4 (Scruff, Scoobs, Cuth and Sooh), The answer there was 5 votes still in play not on optimal trains. Sooh jumps to scruff, which makes it 6/4 with 4 votes in play with 2 likely to move.

If we leave it there Cuth and Scoobs don't need to move and Scoobs is saved. We get Clov to switch scoob and Sooh misreads and switches as well. Bop switches to Scruff to force Scoobs and Cuth to make a decision, they both decide to vote Scruff, Bop switches back to tie it up at end to not let question marks decide the vote.

So, look at this as you have 4 question marks, you don't want question marks or scum reads to determine vote, and you definitely don't want them building a 3rd wagon. By tying it, we forced Scoobs and Cuth to make active votes to actually play a part in the lynch. This whole interaction is why I immediately put you and Bop in lock clear town slot.

So no, it had nothing to do with hammer, it was about forcing question marks to help better solve the game.

Cory Caboose · July 18, 2017

I know it's borderline nonsense in terms of equity for the mafia to have done what I think they did*, and I'm gonna look pretty dumb if I'm wrong (and I'm okay with that, never been afraid to be wrong in mafia)

But I think I might be right about the Eldrick vig theory lol

* a reminder that desperate wolves make sometimes very strange low equity decisions, and I would wager a wolfteam with FC & Iron on it would be feeling the heat pretty strong n1

Fredwood · July 18, 2017

Also, forcing a tie is the better move if you think Scum is trying to force a lynch EOD. It was clear people were reading Scoobs bad, you try not to let Scoobs decide lynch there. It would have been better if I was on my game and paying attention and switched to Scoobs there yes, but the tie was a lot more strategic then you're thinking.

Cory Caboose · July 18, 2017

For reference, here's a game where Scoobs was a wolf:

http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/2247-Zelda-2-0

he was a wolf with Bimps, lute & McGinty

his biggest d1 contribution was a large case against lute

He slotted all of his wolf reads in his scum list

This is a pretty consistent pattern in his wolfgame

Spadeszee · July 18, 2017

This is how I took this post.

Scruff flipped villager and immediately you're on Cuth for clearing FC for meta, which the meta bs is why I voted FC in the first place. If you saw that, why didn't you change to FC? You mentioned FC was your other D1 pick, but never really read into him, which is why I just read this as being scumtastic.

I think it was very obvious I wanted the tie, in fact I brought up that a tie was the best move at the time. In fact if you check it was all kind of at the same time where CLov suggested MrsClov or Sooh switch (they were "confirmed" town atp) to switch to even lynches. MrsCLov did, and Sooh made a "mistake" which required Bop to vote FC because.. So that tells you Clov, Bop and me all thought the tie was the right town move at that point, then that should be the answer to your own question.

Also I still had no reason to wolf read FC day one, I thought his participation warranted a second day over Scruffs. I didn't think Scruff deserved a day 2 because he had no interest in participating further. The way the lynch played out was perfect for town.

The tie was so we wouldn't hit maj before EoD talk/moves. At least that was Bop and my thoughts. I'm willing to bet that was also Corys thoughts as well.

Not to have a tie vote at the every end. We wanted a FC kill, but that didn't happen.

No that is not why we wanted the tie. You should go and reread that just to learn why it makes sense from a game theory standpoint.

EOD1. How many question marks are there? And how many question marks were there off the two best lynches (Scoobs/Scruff) In fact there was an alt wagon on eld at 4 (Scruff, Scoobs, Cuth and Sooh), The answer there was 5 votes still in play not on optimal trains. Sooh jumps to scruff, which makes it 6/4 with 4 votes in play with 2 likely to move.

If we leave it there Cuth and Scoobs don't need to move and Scoobs is saved. We get Clov to switch scoob and Sooh misreads and switches as well. Bop switches to Scruff to force Scoobs and Cuth to make a decision, they both decide to vote Scruff, Bop switches back to tie it up at end to not let question marks decide the vote.

So, look at this as you have 4 question marks, you don't want question marks or scum reads to determine vote, and you definitely don't want them building a 3rd wagon. By tying it, we forced Scoobs and Cuth to make active votes to actually play a part in the lynch. This whole interaction is why I immediately put you and Bop in lock clear town slot.

So no, it had nothing to do with hammer, it was about forcing question marks to help better solve the game.

Nope. No.

Okay, I'm pissed off now.

We did NOT tie the vote.

Cuth is the one who put it back at a tie. We switched the second that there was more on Scruff because never did we want to vote scruff and if you look back at any of our posts it's clear that we didn't want that vote.

If I were independent of Bop I never would have switched my vote on Scruff in the first place and when he did it I questioned it. I am much more careful about who and why I am voting which is also why I took my vote off of you today.

Fredwood · July 18, 2017

I know it's borderline nonsense in terms of equity for the mafia to have done what I think they did*, and I'm gonna look pretty dumb if I'm wrong (and I'm okay with that, never been afraid to be wrong in mafia)

But I think I might be right about the Eldrick vig theory lol

* a reminder that desperate wolves make sometimes very strange low equity decisions, and I would wager a wolfteam with FC & Iron on it would be feeling the heat pretty strong n1

I agree it makes sense. It's a bold play, but if I'm on a team with 3 people and we're all in bad spots, it's a bold play.

1. If Scoobs is able to get the lynch on Scum!eldrick by getting 4 town to flinch vote for him Eldrick, he looks like the hero

2. If they fail, Scum!Eldrick vigs him for the town cred

It's a very good move for the situation.

HOWEVER. On the chance that you ARE wrong, and Eldrick is town, where does that leave us for tomorrow, it's me vs Sooh/Cuth and then eventually Zander, over and over again until you finally land scum.

You may read me town, but it's obvious Zander/Spades/Eldrick/Cuth do not.

Spadeszee · July 18, 2017

Also, even though Cuth didn't unvote his vote still went through. I'm not here to argue the mods in any form, but we questioned it because he wanted a FC lynch that night.

Fredwood · July 18, 2017

This is how I took this post.

Scruff flipped villager and immediately you're on Cuth for clearing FC for meta, which the meta bs is why I voted FC in the first place. If you saw that, why didn't you change to FC? You mentioned FC was your other D1 pick, but never really read into him, which is why I just read this as being scumtastic.

I think it was very obvious I wanted the tie, in fact I brought up that a tie was the best move at the time. In fact if you check it was all kind of at the same time where CLov suggested MrsClov or Sooh switch (they were "confirmed" town atp) to switch to even lynches. MrsCLov did, and Sooh made a "mistake" which required Bop to vote FC because.. So that tells you Clov, Bop and me all thought the tie was the right town move at that point, then that should be the answer to your own question.

Also I still had no reason to wolf read FC day one, I thought his participation warranted a second day over Scruffs. I didn't think Scruff deserved a day 2 because he had no interest in participating further. The way the lynch played out was perfect for town.

The tie was so we wouldn't hit maj before EoD talk/moves. At least that was Bop and my thoughts. I'm willing to bet that was also Corys thoughts as well.

Not to have a tie vote at the every end. We wanted a FC kill, but that didn't happen.

No that is not why we wanted the tie. You should go and reread that just to learn why it makes sense from a game theory standpoint.

EOD1. How many question marks are there? And how many question marks were there off the two best lynches (Scoobs/Scruff) In fact there was an alt wagon on eld at 4 (Scruff, Scoobs, Cuth and Sooh), The answer there was 5 votes still in play not on optimal trains. Sooh jumps to scruff, which makes it 6/4 with 4 votes in play with 2 likely to move.

If we leave it there Cuth and Scoobs don't need to move and Scoobs is saved. We get Clov to switch scoob and Sooh misreads and switches as well. Bop switches to Scruff to force Scoobs and Cuth to make a decision, they both decide to vote Scruff, Bop switches back to tie it up at end to not let question marks decide the vote.

So, look at this as you have 4 question marks, you don't want question marks or scum reads to determine vote, and you definitely don't want them building a 3rd wagon. By tying it, we forced Scoobs and Cuth to make active votes to actually play a part in the lynch. This whole interaction is why I immediately put you and Bop in lock clear town slot.

So no, it had nothing to do with hammer, it was about forcing question marks to help better solve the game.

Nope. No.

Okay, I'm pissed off now.

We did NOT tie the vote.

Cuth is the one who put it back at a tie. We switched the second that there was more on Scruff because never did we want to vote scruff and if you look back at any of our posts it's clear that we didn't want that vote.

If I were independent of Bop I never would have switched my vote on Scruff in the first place and when he did it I questioned it. I am much more careful about who and why I am voting which is also why I took my vote off of you today.

Bop tied the vote twice...

Cory Caboose · July 18, 2017

I read Scoobs ISO in the game backwards lol

But he's still pretty damn bussy that game lol

Cory Caboose · July 18, 2017

Fred if we were to lynch Eldrick and he were to flip v, I'd imagine town would pretty much have to lynch you next and I wouldn't disagree

MrsClov · July 18, 2017

Also, even though Cuth didn't unvote his vote still went through. I'm not here to argue the mods in any form, but we questioned it because he wanted a FC lynch that night.

I think they were giving some leniency.

MrsClov · July 18, 2017

[V] Eldrick[/v]

Spadeszee · July 18, 2017

This is how I took this post.

Scruff flipped villager and immediately you're on Cuth for clearing FC for meta, which the meta bs is why I voted FC in the first place. If you saw that, why didn't you change to FC? You mentioned FC was your other D1 pick, but never really read into him, which is why I just read this as being scumtastic.

I think it was very obvious I wanted the tie, in fact I brought up that a tie was the best move at the time. In fact if you check it was all kind of at the same time where CLov suggested MrsClov or Sooh switch (they were "confirmed" town atp) to switch to even lynches. MrsCLov did, and Sooh made a "mistake" which required Bop to vote FC because.. So that tells you Clov, Bop and me all thought the tie was the right town move at that point, then that should be the answer to your own question.

Also I still had no reason to wolf read FC day one, I thought his participation warranted a second day over Scruffs. I didn't think Scruff deserved a day 2 because he had no interest in participating further. The way the lynch played out was perfect for town.

The tie was so we wouldn't hit maj before EoD talk/moves. At least that was Bop and my thoughts. I'm willing to bet that was also Corys thoughts as well.

Not to have a tie vote at the every end. We wanted a FC kill, but that didn't happen.

No that is not why we wanted the tie. You should go and reread that just to learn why it makes sense from a game theory standpoint.

EOD1. How many question marks are there? And how many question marks were there off the two best lynches (Scoobs/Scruff) In fact there was an alt wagon on eld at 4 (Scruff, Scoobs, Cuth and Sooh), The answer there was 5 votes still in play not on optimal trains. Sooh jumps to scruff, which makes it 6/4 with 4 votes in play with 2 likely to move.

If we leave it there Cuth and Scoobs don't need to move and Scoobs is saved. We get Clov to switch scoob and Sooh misreads and switches as well. Bop switches to Scruff to force Scoobs and Cuth to make a decision, they both decide to vote Scruff, Bop switches back to tie it up at end to not let question marks decide the vote.

So, look at this as you have 4 question marks, you don't want question marks or scum reads to determine vote, and you definitely don't want them building a 3rd wagon. By tying it, we forced Scoobs and Cuth to make active votes to actually play a part in the lynch. This whole interaction is why I immediately put you and Bop in lock clear town slot.

So no, it had nothing to do with hammer, it was about forcing question marks to help better solve the game.

Nope. No.

Okay, I'm pissed off now.

We did NOT tie the vote.

Cuth is the one who put it back at a tie. We switched the second that there was more on Scruff because never did we want to vote scruff and if you look back at any of our posts it's clear that we didn't want that vote.

If I were independent of Bop I never would have switched my vote on Scruff in the first place and when he did it I questioned it. I am much more careful about who and why I am voting which is also why I took my vote off of you today.

Bop tied the vote twice...

Sooh made the FC vote with Zander, Cor/Clov, Linz, MmmSpade more than the Fredwood, Ironeyes vote. So Bop moved us so it was 3v3

Then FC voted himself

so we naturally moved back to FC making it 4v3

then Cuth voted Scruff making it 4v4

We were sitting happy on FC all day, only for Cory did we move our vote so we could all keep disusing.

Spadeszee · July 18, 2017

voted to preserve himself, I should say

Fredwood · July 18, 2017

Scruff and Eldrick aren't voting again probably, Maybe Cuth votes Scruff. And if Scoobs comes on does he self pres?

I' half thinking about tying it up to see what scoobs and Cuth do.

I'm kind of hoping Sooh or MrsClov votes Fleeing for REINDEERGAMES.

I'm kind of hoping Sooh or MrsClov votes Fleeing for REINDEERGAMES.

Well... I do enjoy a good reindeergame.

[unvote]

[v]Fleeing Coward[/v]

[unvote]

[v]Fleeing Coward[/v]

I'll trust the power of Clovdyx.

[unvote]

[v]scruff[/v]

tie baby

[v]scruffington[/v]

Vote: Scruffington

[unvote]

[v]coward[/v]

Bop tied vote twice, wasn't misremembering

Fredwood · July 18, 2017

Fred if we were to lynch Eldrick and he were to flip v, I'd imagine town would pretty much have to lynch you next and I wouldn't disagree

I think it's just as likely Cuth could be pulling a holster as it is Eldrick shot his own teammate personally. So this could go on and one lol.

Cory Caboose · July 18, 2017

Considering if SpadesBop didn't move their vote, I was going to move ours to re-tie the wagons (for Chris and his weird math science projects) it's not something I even really thought about and I feel that was the correct path to take haha

Cory Caboose · July 18, 2017

Fred if we were to lynch Eldrick and he were to flip v, I'd imagine town would pretty much have to lynch you next and I wouldn't disagree

I think it's just as likely Cuth could be pulling a holster as it is Eldrick shot his own teammate personally. So this could go on and one lol.

If there is a Cuth/Sooh/??? f3, I do not envy the villager in that spot

Fredwood · July 18, 2017

Considering if SpadesBop didn't move their vote, I was going to move ours to re-tie the wagons (for Chris and his weird math science projects) it's not something I even really thought about and I feel that was the correct path to take haha

Yeah I don't understand Spades line of questioning right now. Bops EOD 1 actions is why I'm lock clearing them. It's not a shade on the voting so I'm not really getting it.

Obviously hindsight is that I should have switched to FC to lynch him, but I stuttered and still went with my gut that Scruff was still the better lynch day 1.

Spadeszee · July 18, 2017

The point stands that we wanted FC, not a tie.

A tie is only useful as a tactic for keeping EoD to see what people are going to do.

Also look at the time stamps, it was 10:40 when we switched, a little under an hour until EoD. It's the time leading up to the final vote that we see the most from either alignment.

I just don't want you to hide behind everyone WANTING a tie. That wasn't what we wanted. If Cuth or FC hadn't voted Scruff we still would have moved our vote 100%. Unfortunately we had to waste a shot on an obvious wolf we could have lynched then.

I've let Bop do the voting because I am a very shy voter where he is not.

MrsClov · July 18, 2017

The point stands that we wanted FC, not a tie.

A tie is only useful as a tactic for keeping EoD to see what people are going to do.

Also look at the time stamps, it was 10:40 when we switched, a little under an hour until EoD. It's the time leading up to the final vote that we see the most from either alignment.

I just don't want you to hide behind everyone WANTING a tie. That wasn't what we wanted. If Cuth or FC hadn't voted Scruff we still would have moved our vote 100%. Unfortunately we had to waste a shot on an obvious wolf we could have lynched then.

I've let Bop do the voting because I am a very shy voter where he is not.

Clov specifically asked me to move over to tie it. It makes pick people pick sides.

MrsClov · July 18, 2017

Speaking of which, wasn't Sooh hesitant to do so?

Fredwood · July 18, 2017

Who said anything about wanting the tie, what are you asking? You said the first tie was to avoid a hammer, it wasn't. Bop switching back is absolutely the right call to make in that situation. Even if you weren't on Scoobs before you shouldn't let bottom of the pile players decide votes. It's just good strategy.

I'm pretty sure I've covered ad naseum day 1 and after his flip why Scruff was the best lynch IMO. If Scoobs had been lynch day 1, Scruffs is probably vigged, possibly not by Eldrick if Cory is to be believed. So either way it's the same outcome. I preferred Scruff over Scoobs at that point, and thought either were good.

Also Time stamps...pretty much everyone was locked into their votes at that point, the only ones who could have changed were me and Darthe, the first tie accomplished what we wanted it to.

Cory Caboose · July 18, 2017

i

looked over FC a little more deeply

and i would like to note

i feel that FC's townread on Cuth and

the explanations for said townread

probably spew Cuth

villager

by itself

Spadeszee · July 18, 2017

Speaking of which, wasn't Sooh hesitant to do so?

Yes, she was.

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