1 hour ago, Vartija said:

To be honest, I think the entire concept of an untrained Rand and Moiraine knowingly going it alone to face the Dark One this early in the series was a bit implausable as a plot development. As I remeber from the book, they went to the mythical Eye of the World because it was under threat, but did they expect to battle the Dark One while there? Even the book version feels like an incredibly risky move that puts the Emond's Fielders at grave danger, but I never got the impression Moiraine was taking them there knowing they would face the Dark One then and there (ie. a mini Last Battle). She was definitely surprised when Aginor and Balthamel appeared which to me suggests she hadn't really expected to face that kind of resistance there. 

 

This kind of stems from the fact that they changed the concept of what the Eye of the World is between the show and the book.  

Agree 100%

I'm generally fine with showrunners deviating from source material provided the spirit of the story is preserved. The Witcher is doing this, and (at least in my opinion) it's making for great TV. 

Episode 4 of Wheel of Time is a good example. It plays out significantly different to the book, but mostly I thought it was a smart decision. Although that Episode was tense and quite action packed, it also managed to do a lot of world building without feeling too exposition heavy. We learn that men claim the title of Dragon and use it to rally followers. We learn that the Aes Sedai are sorted by color or 'Ajar' according to their function, and that although they're ostensibly one sisterhood united under one leader, they in fact disagree and seem rife with internal politics. We see how dangerous and powerful some men who can channel are, and how the madness might manifest. We learn about shielding and gentling, and the tolls they can both take. We see examples of different types of warder relationships, etc. So much lore and world building achieved in a single episode, so I really didn't care that it was a departure from the strict plot of the book. Cutting out Caemlyn was also smart given they're limited to eight episodes.

I also think they were wise not to get into the 'rules' behind how the power works. Season 2 is a more natural place to dive into that, when we see the ladies receive lessons at Tar Valon.

The changes in Episode 8 bother me because I feel like they undermine the story in needless ways with insufficient compensation for the change. Rand's Dragon reveal and first moments to shine at the Eye felt underwhelming and anticlimactic, whereas Nynaeve gets yet another massive display of power. And the fact that both Nynaeve and Egwene have already pulled off feats that (in the books) are supposed to require great skill and dexterity at weaving (and at least some training) is really going to undermine the upcoming training scenes next season. 

One final thought. I usually roll my eyes at people who get knee-jerk upset when a character's race or gender is changed, or when women are given more screen time, power or agency than in their source material. Generally I do think that heroic fiction has been too white-male dominanated and I welcome more diversity. But that doesn't invalidate the complaints that Rand and Lan have really not had any moments to shine, and Lews Therin was really done dirty. And with Nynaeve in particular they showed too much power too early. I wish the showrunners would have found a better balance, and been more patient with Nynaeve's development. Doing more to appeal to women is great. Robbing the male characters entirely just makes for less interesting TV. 

6 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Personally I’d rather keep the scene purely between LTT and LPD instead of losing focus by including a bunch of nobodies. The one I’d prefer and maybe it’s stupid but I wish they were simply walking. Movement alone would give the impression of urgency, maybe have some extras in a hurry to show this is not a calm tea time break but and end of the world period. 
 

The main things that should be touched on is:

 

- LTT begging LPD to end the concord and her opposition to his plan 

- LPD resolute in her refusal, pointing out the risks are too great

- LTT acknowledging the risks, but insisting there is no other choice, time is up, the shadow is on the cusp of victory and the Chodean Kal will soon be lost

- LPD insists the access keys will be recovered and she maintains her refusal to cooperate with LTT’s plan

- Once she leaves show LTT decide to put his plan in to motion regardless

 

Maybe name drop a couple forsaken, show a touch of LTT being too certain of himself, perhaps show LTT as leader of the Light (and tie that in to him being too certain).

 

But especially show the urgency, the desperation, the Light’s being on the brink of destruction, and the fact that both sides are right in way. The whole tragedy of the tainting of Saidin is that it was actually the best case scenario at that point. Had either LTT or LPD not acted as they did the result would have been even worse. And it’s very much hinted that the wheel intended for this to happen, what with the shadow accidentally taking then facilities where the access keys were made.

 

Or you know maybe just read the Strike at Shayol Ghul!

Agreed on all counts, I like your version better. But either way, you get the point. What we actually got in the show didn't sell the urgency, and didn't paint LTT in a good light at all.

We're now at the end of an adaptation of book 1.

Nynaeve al'meara (with no training):

- heals an entire room full of people who were fatally injured by Logain

- holds back Mashin Shin with the power

- as part of a circle, destroys the army at Tarwin's gap

- tells Lan (a warder who has been traveling with Moiraine for over a decade) how to track Moiraine

Rand al'thor 

- knocks open a door

- knocks over a Trolloc

- whines a lot

- shoots a beam of light out of his hand (but only with the help of a sa'angreal

Ugh.

Then we have Lews Therin. Described by Jordan as the greatest man of his age, first among the servants, a master tactician, respected author and great leader. And what do we see of him? He gets dressed down by a woman who  apparently is the leader of the Aes Sedai. He is made to look reckless and unwise and he is warned that his plan will taint the male power (because somehow she is wise enough to forsee this). And since they're chatting on a balcony in a beautiful city with no signs of conflict or desperation around them, it just makes him look like an impetuous idiot going against the advice of his wiser superior.

Ugh.

That scene should have been Lews and Latra, both in military attire, looking war-weary but determined, addressing a council of Aes Sedai. "This is our desperate hour. We must strike now before all is lost. Our spies tell us the Forsaken are all gathered together near the bore. If we hit them hard and fast we can imprison them and their master forever". "No, a direct assault on the Dark One is too risky. Even you, strongest among us, cannot dare face him. We should rally our forces and retake the Choedan Kal. With such a powerful Sa'Angreal we can turn the tides".

And then they vote. The men side with Lews, the women with Latra. Latra looks at Lews gravely and says "Old friend, this is too bold, too risky. You will doom us all, Lews Therin Telamon".

10 minutes ago, Ralph said:

Some nice ideas here.

 

We can't have FD people knowing about Rand though. In the books only Agelmar saw a male channeler, and he was not willing to accept that. 

 

However, tbh I suspect many of the commenters most aggrieved here would have reacted exactly the same with your version. 

 

 

Good point about the Shienaran's not being aware of Rand at this point. 

I'm just puzzled about a lot of decisions in this episode. At this point both Egwene and Nynaeve have already demonstrated remarkable skill with the power (including bringing people back from the brink of death), which undermines the fact that such complex weaves are supposed to require practice and experience. Their training at the tower will be less impactful given that they have both already demonstrated powers beyond the typical Aes Sedai.

The end must have also been super confusing to non-book readers. From Moiraine's perspective, Rand just faced the DO at his prison, overcome temptation, and vanquished him. Despite being stilled/shielded, shouldn't she also be immensely relieved that apparently the Last Battle was just won? What is it she thinks happened? It was messy and unclear.

This episode frustrate me to no end, for reasons pervious posters have already elaborated on. 

I understand that Rafe's changes were aimed at making the show more of an ensemble, but that could have been achieved in a way that still showcased the Dragon's power and kept closer to the spirit of the book.

Imagine if it had gone down like this:

Lolial warns Moiraine that the Ogier are hearing rumours the DO is focusing his attention on the Eye of the World. Moiraine explains to the party that the Eye is supposed to be one of the last remnants of the Age of Legends, and they cannot allow it to fall into the hands of the shadow, but to journey there will be risky because it is close to the DO's prison.

Rand, Moiraine and Lan sneak out of Fal Dara at night, not wanting to risk bringing the other to such a dangerous place. We get some shots of them navigating the blight, and Lan gets a chance to show off his skills as he cuts down some blight-born horror. We also get a brief scene of either Tam (flashback) or Lan teaching Rand the flame and the void. Rand asks if Lan is afraid to die, and Lan says 'Death is lighter than a feather, duty is heavier than a mountain. It would be an honour to die helping Moiraine Sedai and the Dragon face the Dark One'.

Meanwhile, much to everyone's horror, an overwhelming host of Trollocks and Fades amasses at Tarwin's gap. Agelmar and his people seem gravely concerned, and prepare to defend the gap, knowing it is likely hopeless. 

Moiraine and co. arrive at the Eye, which is some kind of ancient temple. Moiraine interprets writing on the walls and translates that the temple was build to house relics of the last Dragon. They are attached by the man with the flaming eyes, who effortlessly incapacitates Moiraine and Lan. He appears inside Rand's head as Fares Fares, and we get a similar scene with the 'Dark One' offering Rand anything he wants. Rand has the same epiphany, realizing that the real Egwene is destined for greater things than being a farmer's wife. Rand resists, breaks the spell and wakes up. Ishamael toys with Rand, and tortures Moiraine and Lan. This motivates Rand to seize the power and lash out. Ishy is temporarily taken by surprise and forced on the defensive. The two clash, but it is clear that Rand is untrained and no match. Rand flees through the blight, Ishy in hot pursuit.

The fight at the gap begins. Agelmar's forces fight valiantly. Agelmar's sister teaches Egwene how to channel lightning, even though she herself can barely manage  a few sparks. Egwene is a quick study, and soon puts on an impressive display hurling lightning into the Trollock hordes. It is not enough though. Things look bleak. Nynaeve wants to help but cannot seem to channel. She is frustrated as she watches on helplessly. It is only when a force breaks through the ranks and charges at Egwene that Nynaeve manages to break her block, and unleash a devastating attack.

Rand is sprinting through the blight, running for his life with Ishy (now in his flaming eyes form again) trying to find him. Rand bursts out onto a cliff top, and looks down in horror at the scene below. Thousands upon thousands of darkspawn are overwhelming Agelmar and co. Egwene and Nynaeve have slayed hundreds but they are barely holding on, exhausted, too weak to keep it up. Overlooking the battle from the clifftop, Rand closes his eyes, breathes deep, visualizes the flame and the void. 

Agelmar, bloodied, near death, surrounded, looks up at the cliff top. There is a figure there, silhouetted in light, but with dark tendrils snaking around him. A HUGE stormcloud is amassing over his head. He looks frightened but in awe. Rand screams as a huge amount of power rushes through him, and from the stormcloud bursts an almighty torrent of lightning which obliterates the Trollock army. The few that survive flee in terror.

Rand falls to his knees, shaking, looking down at his hands in disbelief. Lan and Moiraine come up behind him. They say there is no sign of the Dark One who was following Rand. Moiraine is holding some sort of casket wrapped in cloth, that she recovered from the Eye temple.

Cut back to Fal Dara. They celebrate their victory. People are in scared awe of Rand, and also acknowledge the power of Nynaeve and Egwene. Moiraine unwraps the cloth and reveals the Dragon Banner, and a case containing the Horn.

Lan takes Moirane aside and asks if that was really the DO they saw. Moiraine says no, "if the DO was free from his prison, we would all already be dead, or worse, slaves to his will. No, that  must have been one of the Forsaken. They were the most powerful Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends, far stronger and more knowledgeable than any woman in the Tower today. If they are somehow free, then the last battle is closer than I feared. We must get these young ones trained in time to be ready, and pray that Rand can hold on to his sanity long enough to resist the darkness".

Final scene is Padan Fain letting some Fades sneak into Fal Dara, murder some guards, and steal the Horn. 

Instead we got whatever the heck that episode was.

Once I accepted that this is an adaptation that (thus far) keeps the major plot beats but is otherwise willing to make major changes, I decided to enjoy the show on its own terms. And up until ep. 7 I have thoroughly been enjoying it. Given how long the source material is, they had no choice but to shorten or omit certain events, and hurry along the character development.

I had issues with this episode though. After all the work they put into building up the identity of the Dragon as a mystery, the reveal of it being Rand felt rushed and unsatisfying. I thought the idea to keep it a mystery throughout the first six episodes was a smart move, but I assumed the reveal would come via a sudden display of power from Rand (similar to Nynaeve's moments). Instead we learn through a series of hurried flashbacks that Rand had information that we the viewer were not privy to. That felt like a cheat to me. My wife (a non book reader) also commented "So Rand is the Dragon Reborn? But he seems so whiney and petulant", and I have to agree with her. I hope they put this love triangle drama aside going forward and make Rand's character more likeable.

Secondly, I am puzzled as to why Moiraine (and Siuan) are planning to march the Dragon straight to the Dark One's prison for a confrontation before the Dragon has had any training or practice whatsoever with the power. What is Moraine hoping to accomplish? Her character in the books would be horrified at the idea of sending an untrained and completely inexperienced Dragon to fight the Dark One.

Finally, I really hope soon we get at least one or two scenes to demonstrate what a hyper-competant and dangerous warder Lan is. I'm fine with this less stoic, more emotional portrayal and I think the actor is fantastic, but he does not come across as the most dangerous warrior alive. 

Overall I am thrilled that we're getting a big budget adaptation of a beloved book series, I just found this episode disappointing.