Swapping Caemlyn for Tar Valon was a sensible and practical choice, given budget constraints. The story is still there, we just get introduced to white tower a little earlier. IMO they should have avoided the Tower and left it as this mystical and wonderous place, seen through rose-tinted-glasses by the EF5 from afar while they try to remain hidden. Then season 2 the girls could enter and it be revealed as a hive of treachery and office politics.

1. they had a full budget, arguably on par with GoT s01

2. Barney only arguably affected Ep7 & 8, they finished filming 1-6 before he left. They pumped out 1-6 with full budget, before covid, and with barney. 1-6 were generally junk.

More time to trainwreck.

We would have just seen 10 bad episodes instead of 8.

13 minutes ago, notpropaganda73 said:

 

Really don't think this is funny in any way. It's just a book series and television show. 

it conveys the point that the show can't be fixed with more time, since the longer it goes with rafe & co at the helm, the worse it will get until cancelled.

best case scenario is for the show to NOT get cancelled, instead for producers to remove the current writers/showrunner and replace with a competent team. i doubt this will happen tho ...

when you understand rafe to be bad news for robert jordan's legacy, you may feel the same.

37 minutes ago, notpropaganda73 said:

In terms of Lan, the only issue I have with him in the show is small character moments rather than his personality. He hasn't called anyone a sheepherder yet, that is criminal (I'm only half joking)

Lan spent months on the road with the boys, and didn't show them how to fight once. Never bothered to talk to Rand about his sword, or show him how to use it.

(all to preserve "whose your dragon")

IMO only the women should carry weapons, at least we'd get to see some more action (rambo nynaeve, tigraine, egwene slayer, etc)

I give benefit of the doubt to the cast since the writing and dialog is generally atrocious. I would not be surprised to see more departures at the end of next season. To be frank, the cast deserves an apology from the writers.

Imagine getting cast as Perrin, signing the contract, reading the books and getting excited to play a reluctant hero, then getting handed the script and realizing the writers want you to play a bumbling manbaby with 3 lines per episode and a permanent }:oO facial expression

5 hours ago, Chivalry said:

Season Two, Episode One...cold open...

 

Setting: a small Trolloc village just north of the borderlands

 

A squat Trolloc child sits cross-legged  in a patch of dirt, humming an off-key ditty (? The Wind That Shakes the Willow). Holding a small carving knife in one hand, he meticulously scrapes flecks of wood off a piece of lumber, shaping a crude flower. Narg has never seen a flower, but remembers his mother's description of flowers, years ago, on returning from one of her many border raids. Narg does not care for raids or killing. He is a sensitive, thoughtful child, nothing like his rough peers, who tease him mercilessly for his artistic inclinations.

 

Moments later, the quiet is shattered by the blaring of horns. Narg frowns…the horns sound nothing like Trolloc instruments. Fear grips his heart, and his wolf muzzle cautiously tests the wind. The Men have come. 

 

Zooming out, we see a young Lord Agelmar charge across the blasted landscape to the small village, shouting encouragement to his cavalry. We see Narg hunch low to the ground as he seeks shelter behind a stack of enormous Trolloc cooking pots. The Shienaran soldiers set fire to the over-sized Trolloc huts, and the clang and clash of weaponry fills the air.

 

Peering over the cook pots, through a smoky haze...Narg sees his mother fall, a bloody spear protruding from her back, and a silent scream painted grotesquely across her wolfish visage. 

 

The wooden carving crumbles in Narg’s hand. His gaze rests on his dead mother, and a feeling of overwhelming grief washes over him. No, he will not cry. He must not. Narg must be hard, harder than iron, harder than steel, to face what will come. Narg will make the Men pay for their actions. He will make them pay with blood.

yes we will get 6 lines of dialog for Perrin but two full episodes on Trolloc child-rearing and school for little Myrdraals, in addition to a Trolloc-Myrdraal-Trolloc love triangle melodrama.

Core:

- Rafe Judkins (e01,e08 + showrunner all episodes)

- Celine Song (e05 + staff writer all episodes)

- Michael Clarkson (e03 + story editor all episodes)

- Paul Clarkson (e03 + story editor all episodes)

Guest:

- Amanda Kate Shuman (e02,e07)

- Justine Juel Gillmer (e06)

- Katherine B. McKenna (e07)

- Dave Hill (e04)

Episodes 4 and 7 seem to be the highest rated, while episodes 1, 5 and 8 seem to be the lowest rated.

Notably 4 & 7 were written by guest writers while 1,5,8 were written by core writers.

One solution is to remove the core writing team and ask Amanda & Dave to step in and write season 2 until a suitable core writers team can be assembled for future seasons.

I think with Rafe/Celine/Clarkson Twins involved, we will get more of the same going forward.

5 hours ago, Ralph said:

Its not true

 

1	"Leavetaking"	Uta Briesewitz	Rafe Judkins	November 19, 2021
2	"Shadow's Waiting"	Uta Briesewitz	Amanda Shuman	November 19, 2021
3	"A Place of Safety"	Wayne Yip	The Clarkson Twins	November 19, 2021
4	"The Dragon Reborn"	Wayne Yip	Dave Hill	November 26, 2021
5	"Blood Calls Blood"	Salli Richardson	Celine Song	December 3, 2021
6	"The Flame of Tar Valon"	Salli Richardson	Justine Juel Gillmer	December 10, 2021
7	"The Dark Along the Ways"	Ciaran Donnelly	Amanda Kate Shuman & Katherine B. McKenna	December 17, 2021
8	"The Eye of the World"	Ciaran Donnelly	Rafe Judkins	December 24, 2021

Yea I posted pre-maturely. Here is the actual list

Core:

- Rafe Judkins (e01,e08 + showrunner all episodes)

- Celine Song (e05 + staff writer all episodes)

- Michael Clarkson (story editor all episodes)

- Paul Clarkson (story editor all episodes)

Guest:

- Amanda Kate Shuman (e02,e07)

- Justine Juel Gillmer (e06)

- Katherine B. McKenna (e07)

- Dave Hill (e04)

13 hours ago, notpropaganda73 said:

As I mentioned in the ep8 thread, how you end something will leave the bigger impression. I know there are many that have hated this adaptation vehemently, and that’s ok, but as bitterly disappointed as I was with the finale I still have to say I enjoyed the season as a whole.

 

Episode 4 is really the shining light in terms of potential for the show. And I feel that they had strong moments through the middle episodes. The finale was an unmitigated disaster, but there was enough in S1 for me to be optimistic about

Episode 4 is the only one not written by the Four Stooges.

Four Stooges:

- Rafe

- Celine Song

- Michael Clarkson

- Paul Clarkson

^ They wrote all episodes, except Episode 4.

Episode 4 writer = Dave Hill. He wrote a number of GoT episodes

7 hours ago, Chivalry said:

Do we really need 5 Ta'veren? What's wrong with having 3 Ta'veren and 2 women who are destined to become great channelers (as in the books)? You can still have your 5 potential Dragons, if that's such a big deal.

The only ta'veren in the show is Moiraine.

17 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

I found Narg.

 

He is in The Witcher s2e1…

 

Along with the real Lan and Mandarb.

 

Seriously, though, I started Witcher season 2 yesterday and it almost set my blood boiling at WoT again because of how very Lan-like Geralt is in the show - quiet, vigilant, skilled, protective, etc.

 

I will never agree with the people who say that Lan had to be changed because the book version isn’t likable in film.

Geralt in witcher season 2 is a way better Lan/warder impression than the junk in wot. 

"there is an inherent darkness in him"

5 hours ago, Gothic Flame said:

If that's it, then it's impossible. Why would Rafe even try? He claimed to be a fan of the books..?

of course he claims to be a book fan ...

imagine if he said "well im not really a fan of the books..."

6 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

Barney's reasons for leaving are a mystery. 

But now I have to wonder.

Typical genius Mat move... Recognizes he's accidentally gotten into a dumpster fire, and nimbly jumps out. In 18 months when the show is cancelled, he will be recognized for this move.

Since the writers find Robert Jordan (and his life's work) problematic, who knows ...

9 hours ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

Well I really like your episode block generally.  I personally think they need the dungeon scenes with PF.  However, in your scenario ,where does Fain flee to?  Toman Head or with your budget director hat on (which it clearly is) is he going straight to Tear so that we can skip Toman Head.  Remember the math is that they have to get through TGH and TDR next season.  That math assumes AMOL will need a whole season to itself like TEOTW and there are no additional seasons.    On the converse side there is an awesome battle where Gabriel's trumpet is sounded by somebody at Toman head so one could use that for a season midpoint epic battle.  But it could all be condensed into Tear. 

Padan Fain isn't a Hound in the show ... Doesn't appear worn down or haggard or insane, just whistling and hanging out. Book Fain is more like gollum

I think it's terrible, but is tolerable if seen as a comedy.

for instance, nynaeve in the cave screeches loudly. with his ears in pain, the Creator heals all the wounded so she will stop shrieking. No skill or demonstration of talent, just raw shrieking. lmao

For sure Rosamund will be moving from actress to strictly Producer role in the show, so they will fast forward to the "moiraine goes away for awhile" event. This frees her up to continue her post-WoT acting career, while still being available for a cameo/return in later seasons (if the show isn't cancelled after 2)

Rand will be injured, Lan will be sobbing in grief laying on the ground, Nynaeve will go rambo, save Lan from trollocs and heal Rand. After the battle at the Eye, Nynaeve will throw both men (both unconscious) onto a convenient horse, and bring them back to Fal Dara.

At fal dara, perrin will be hiding in a closet trying to muster the courage to pick up an axe. we may get a token kill to show him conquering his fear, guarding the door to his bedroom maybe. Egwene^TM will be on The Balcony turning back the trolloc army.

In Tar Valon, Mat will do some stealing, maybe steal the dagger and a horse, and maybe grope/assault a few women. Might run into Thom and they both go on a crime spree in tar valon. they get chased out west toward the coast.

prediction:

ishamael: "just you here, boy? where is the rest of the dragon?"

Interesting to see similarly budgeted fantasy shows running at the same time.

Witcher season 2 is showing what a $10 million per episode budget should look like. They also have taken similar liberties with the source material, but it is coherent and isn't a messy joke like WoT is turning out to be.

It's now embarrassing to talk about WoT show IRL

Leaked dialog from s01e08 script

Quote

Evil character: "Where is the rest of the dragon?"

Thoughts on 07,

Pros

Coherently written, the logic and pacing felt professional, unlike the amateur hour episodes from most of the season. 

Cons

More character assassination of Mat and Perrin

"Its Rand" infodump

Logged into my account for the first time in 13 years to post this.

I was hopeful for the show, and I'm hopeful for Season 2 _{(only if some key people can be replaced, see last line of post)}

Extremely disappointed in the show thus far however.

The writing thus far (eps 1-6) has been an unmitigated disaster, and the overall production and cinematography feels amateurish and low budget. The scene lighting is especially terrible.

The casting feels okay and certainly isn't the cause for my disappointment (aside from the usual Loial appearance joke).

I didn't expect a purist adaptation, and I don't mind changes like cutting out Caemlyn in favor of Tar Valon, or pushing back Thom development till later in the saga. Those are realistic and practical changes to save $$$.

Cast - 3.5/5                   _{(Nynaeve is perfect!)}

Cinematography - 2.9/5

Writing - 1.9/5

Production - 2.9/5

Music - 4/5

Action - 3/5

Pacing - 1.9/5

Logic - 2/5

Dialog - 3/5

Editing - 2.9/5

Costume design - 3.4/5       _{(where is the armor???)}

Camera work - 3/5

Overall - 2.9/5       (as of s01e06)

For a $10 million per episode epic, it should be 4+ across the board! You can buy good writers, you can buy good cinematography, you can buy good action, you can buy good editing.

The technical teams are obviously professionals, maybe covid affected things more than I am aware of, so I give them benefit of the doubt with some of the production, and I'm hopeful for improvements in season 2.

However the writing, dialog and editing feels like nothing less than an attack on the books & Robert Jordan's story.

Amazon needs to immediately replace the show runner and writers and also replace any book/source-material consultants. The team involved in set/scene lighting also need to be replaced, and we need to know why so little $$$ is being spent on costume/armor/etc. This production can be saved!