Agree with all of that, i remember thinking the way in which she 'broke' semirhage was silly as well

Dont get me wrong, other characters such as nynaeve and egwene irritate me at times but they have awesome scenes to balance it 

I will take a look for the taim thread, thanks

Hey guys

I am on a reread, it is probably my twentieth read through but my first in a few years.

I have finished book six and on book seven, cadsuane has just appeared for the first time and got a couple of queries.

After reading book 6 literally everything feels like taim is demanded, I know he isn't but does anyone else think that was the original plan and it may have been changed because fans guessed?

Also, just a few chapters of cadsuane is enough to irritate me, does anyone like this character? She irritated me every time I read the series

Cheers

On 10/30/2023 at 11:16 AM, Scarloc99 said:

They have decided to go all out on the shock factor for the Boys spin off, I mean, I can't blame them, the opening scene of season 3 with Termite was, well, both brilliant and gross all at once lol. 

But I agree the spinoff is not as good as the main story. 

I think its entertaining enough but just light entertainment. I feel the same about the boys to be honest.

Its been a long time since i have got heavily into a non WOT or GOT tv show (probably the early seasons of the handmaids tale).

As for the nielsen stats, it doesnt seem to have done badly?

8 hours ago, Jake Sykwalker said:

You will be amazed at how much more you pick up on a re-read.  He lays out a ton of stuff for you if you know what to look for.

 

Once criticism of Jordan's writing which I do agree with is his oversimplification of many characters including female characters.  Like every female character was based off of his wife, or one of his close female relatives.  For instance he likes to describe females as "plump."  People may do so in their head, but Elayne describing Else to Lanfear as plump out loud just seemed wrong.  

I dread to think how many times i read the series. I was obsessed when young - i read the first book in 1992 and like many people i would re-read every previous book when a new book came out. 

It is a different experience as a middle aged man to be honest and yes i think its a common criticism of RJ, his writing of female characters.

Despite that, they do have their moments to shine, i loved the golden crane scene for example, and although i spent much of the series finding Egwene a bit annoying .. her final scenes definitely hit me.

10 minutes ago, Yamezt said:

Yea I really disliked that too. IMO that was rape. From memory it was written as if it were a humorous scene - cringey. Something I hope they cut out if the TV series if the seasons makes it that far. 

That is how i remember it as well, heck she restricts his food, puts a knife to his throat, and he tried to lock his door from what i remember? But it was all written in a sort of 'humorous' way and he ended up 'liking' his abuser at the end of it.

Maybe i am remembering it poorly, it has been a while.

On 10/18/2023 at 1:36 PM, Scarloc99 said:

Jordan’s book was forward thinking for the day it was written in, it is also very dated today. I think people took that Rafe statement and ran with it in the wrong way. Any work adapted is changed to make it more palatable for the viewing audience, lord of the rings added in a whole plot line for a female character at the expense of a male one, added in more about romance because it was based off a book that regardless of its pedigree in some ways has not aged well. 
 

A friend read wheel of time for then first time recently after watching the tv show, she commented on how sexist Robert Jordan was in his writing and how glad she is the tv show is not like that. Some things age well, some things don’t and when something hasn’t aged well you change it. I have no doubt had RJ written WOT now then there would be a lot less of men are from mars women are from Venus writing in the relationships and he would have been emboldened to have been more open with the existence of same sex relationships in the world. He took the risks he could in the 90’s and he stuck on lane and played it safe where he felt he needed to. But he did take risks, risks that now days feel like they are behind the times we live in. 

I got a fantasy loving friend to watch the show and he went on to try the books.

He commented on how the series felt 'very 90's' as well.

Personally i have read the series lots of times, but not for a couple of years and my memory is not as good as it was (too much radiotherapy to the head!).

I do remember there was a general obsession with breasts and spanking and a very odd storyline with Tylin that did not work for me at all. But i still loved the overall story

I have just started a reread, and i am on the hunt for the horn (the great hunt), it will be interesting to see if these things bother me this time around.

28 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

I don't like that long-time book fans warn new readers about the "slog"(which not every book fan, myself included, even consider to be an issue) and first few books being different from the rest. Allow them to make up their own mind as we did. 

 

I've seen a bunch of people in twitter say they couldn't finish the books due to several reasons and consider the show to be a better/more easily digestable version of them so far. I agree with many of their complaints regarding pacing, plotlines, writing etc.

I badgered friends to try the show and two decided to read the books.

One just decided reading fantasy wasnt his thing 

The other is now on book 5 and enjoying it, but when reading Eotw commented it was 'very 90's' and felt like Lotr.

1 hour ago, fra85uk said:

It is true that one of the good things about modern-day entertainment is that evil characters are given more space and more info about their motivations. 

This is valid also for WoT Show and Ishamael, Lanfear and Liandrin are very well presented in the show.

The only problem I have in this regard is that main characters for me have not received an equally good treatment and many times I found myself rooting for villains.

 

Small OT: Reading the books, I have always wondered about the details of Forsakens background which are only hinted at in the books. I would have loved to see a telling of that story.

I have been team Lanfear in the show for a while, but i like that ishys argument 'sort of ' makes sense and makes it all bit more grey.

As for the main characters not being treated right, i think we can all agree the Mat changes were forced on them? but i do hope we get quality mat, perrin and rand development in S3.

No i am not angry, i have enjoyed S2 a lot.

I think one or two things were done better than the books and there were a few things i disliked

The forsaken are much better fleshed out than in the books so far but i didn't like the end scene with Egwene and i didn't like the lan/alanna/alannas warders/moraine subplot - although i know it was to keep pike on screen.

As for magic systems, yes they are simplifying things, they have to due to time constraints. 

Has to be mentioned that the first of the book completely broke its own magic rules as well, but perhaps that is why i don't get as angry about changes. I love the book series, i have read it a dozen times but don't consider it to be perfect. For me books 2-6 and 11-14 are brill, books 7-10 are a bit of a slog (especially 10) and book 1 is good but with some genuine issues.  

I watched it, i was surprised he was so negative but that's ok i guess. I watch a lot of reactor videos - the only ones i don't watch are knights watch and disparu- because they bring culture war nonsense and politics into it and i have no interest in politics or culture war stuff.

I actually prefer non reader reactions like the everyday negroes because i think some readers are so busy analysing the episode for changes etc that they forget to sit back and enjoy. I think maybe sanderson is influenced by being so close to the books having written 3 of them.

As for Sandersons books, not getting into the discussion of whether he is YA or not- (i do think Eotw is YA btw) . Personally i like his books and i LOVED the way of kings, that is my favourite of the stormlight archive but i am completely invested in the series. 

3 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

And this is why changes to the source material needed to be made, to keep the themes and tone consistent throughout

I just finished Eotw

One of the reader reactors complained bitterly about changes from source, and how it was illogical that rand could kill Turaks guards without training, yet in Eotw rand defeats aginor, ishamael, travels and kills a horde of trollocs and fades with no training.

But i am past that book now and excited to read the great hunt 🙂 

On 10/10/2023 at 3:52 AM, Yamezt said:

Me too! 

 

I am surprised I still had my Dragonmount account LOL - decided to login to see what people think after binging of S2 (i waited till all episodes are up before I sub to prime).

 

S2 was a fun ride - I enjoyed more than S1. Though to be fair, I hated Eye of the World. I always thought eotw was an awful book. So the adaptation probably reasonated less with me. The ONLY reason i got through eye of the world was that I already bought the subsequent books and gritted my teeth through it.

 

Enjoyed book 2 onwards (and actually love the dreaded 7-11 books - no accounting my awful taste in books!)

I started a re-read last week and i think Eotw has a different feel to the rest of the series. It feels like YA to me.

Now that i know the other books are great i will power through but the first time i read the series i was a young adult and didnt mind (1992)

**not sure if book spoilers need tagging but spoilers to be safe**

Yes i completely agree the reason they gave egwene the scene against ishy was to demonstrate that her time as a damane has bought on her abilities at an accelerated rate.

I dont always agree with the decisions by the show runner but dont buy the idea he hates the source etc.

Do you think we will miss all the sword training now? or perhaps get the later sword fight with Be'lal?

Another long term reader here who registered just to discuss the show with other readers - i may have had a membership years ago, i used to spend a lot of time on wotmania and theoryland back in the day.

Overall i think i enjoyed season 2 more than most people here- yes they have greatly simplified the magic system and plot points. But i had expected that.  I would like to see more rand coming into his own in S3 however as we have had lots of limelight on egwene and nynaeve.

The lan plot did annoy me during the season - especially as the show is so short of time. But i liked the way they demonstrated a difference between unbonded and bonded Lan. 

I would have liked to have seen rand do more in the falme battle as well.

On the other hand i have absolutely LOVED the show version of Lanfear, i love this series of books but sometimes the bad guys did not feel fully fleshed out.  Show lanfear has come across clearly as someone who wants both rand and power to me. She has successfully portrayed jealousy, arrogance, obsession and an underlying instability. She has been a highpoint of the entire show for me.

I took a look at the engagement scores and it seems E8 had higher engagement than all the previous episodes of S2? It was also trending on twitter for the first time this season.

For all its flaws i really want 8 seasons but i do worry about it being cancelled. I enjoyed another amazon show (the peripheral) which was cancelled out of nowhere despite being officially previously renewed.

I have watched it three times and i was very entertained. I do hope Rand comes into his own in S3 and we see some awesome rand time as i think the girls have had plenty of time being the stars now. 

I was really pleased to see mat blow the horn, yes the storyline has changed but i think much of that was forced onto the show and think the new actor is great.

I actually prefer show forsaken to book forsaken so far (dont shoot me for saying that please!) I think all the forsaken actors are brill so far. I think on the show i have been team lanfear for the last few episodes (i see her her 'show' motive is to see rand rise to power so she can take him as hers and have more power herself but i love the show version)

The one 'wtf' moment for me was loial and ingtar rocking up with the horn.

BUT- i tend to watch fantasy shows or any show with magic etc the way i watch marvel films. I sit back, suspend disbelief and hope to be entertained. If i sat there looking for changes or inconsistencies or worrying about the magic rules- then yes i would probably dislike the episode.

Long term reader myself, was obsessed growing up (started reading in 1992) played every wot based game i could find, trawled the usual theory sites when i should be studying etc. A pretty similar story to many on here i imagine.

But haven't read the series in 2 or 3 years. And at my age my memory isnt as good as it was so i dont remember every single scene off by heart as some readers do.

Overall i have enjoyed the show, especially s2. The magic system and plot points have been simplified but i expected that to happen for an adaptation and i recognise the world.

As for whether readers are enjoying it? i would say it is split down the middle. I ignore the 'professional rager' channels online as they just scream and rant for clicks but there are definitely reactors who are also readers and hate it.

There are also a bunch who love the show.

Among non-readers, E8 seems to have gone down very well and engagement seems to have jumped up.