That's him. Those chapters were only slightly harder to follow along than the plot of the movie 'Memento'. I wonder if Christopher Nolan is a WoT fan? I believe that's her too, but I'm not certain. And if it is, we were introduced to Anayia Sedai some time before her untimely death. I recall her interacting with some of the main cast.

Cabriana(sp?) Sedai was the AS that Sermihage, I think, was torturing. Along with Cabriana's Warder. Cabriana was a member of "The Three", a trio of AS who were always together as they were coming up in the WT. Lone Besties since being Novices, I think it's implied. I recall mention that "The Three" didn't really have any other friends, or maybe no other friends left living. The one whose name escapes me is one of the AS who dies mysteriously, and her death is also our introduction to her. I thought/assumed that her mysterious demise [the AS I can't recall the name of] was just story filler. I should have known better... "The Three" were [can't recall her name] Sedai, Cabriana Sedai,...and Danelle Sedai. The same Danelle that Messana is impersonating as in the WT. So Cabriana's torture, combined with [unknown's death], was an early clue as to who Messana could be impersonating. There's probably details I'm forgetting, but that's the jist of why Cabriana's significance. The apple farmer Rand meets and talks with as Rand is walking towards Tar Valon to meet with Amrilyn Egwene, after Rand has his epiphany atop Dragonmount and becomes 'Zen Rand'. The farm/orchard where the apples miraculously appear on the trees after we read about them [the apples] blossoming very undersize and then they all drop to the ground. The farmer who has to console his family and workers with the prospect that they may all starve to death because of the failed crop. That's the same farmer that gives Rand and Matt a lift in his wagon as they're headed to Caemlyn for the first time, way back in TEotW. Sadly, I don't recall his name [the farmer's] either. I've always been terrible at remembering names.

I've only read WoT front-to-back once, 6 months ago or so. But I've been reading WoT since sometime in the early to mid 90's. I'm part of the OG crowd who would read all the prior books before the next one came out...to catch myself up. And in-between I'd visit the various internet sites and read over the crazy, and not-so-crazy, theories everyone had. Reading from release-to-release, I've also only read the entire series once. And I took a very long break from WoT (10 years or so) after finishing AMoL the first time. Suffice to say I've had much exposure and time to let ideas stew. But I never bought into Taim-andred. At least as much as I can recall I don't think I did. The more you read the series, the more you start to see, and be blown away by, all the connections RJ wove into the story. Some things jump out at you, while others you miss completely...and by you I mean me. I didn't realize the significance of Cabriana Sedai until this latest read through. And I totally missed the connection with the apple farmer altogether. I think it's very difficult to pick up on all these things just from the books. Sites like Dragonmount and others, and the people who post there, are an invaluable reference and research aid. I wouldn't know half as much as I think I do about WoT without them.

Thank you for your reply. And a very Merry Xmas to you and yours! My stance/opinion on this particular topic was/has always been that RJ would never have planned to have Demandred pretending to be Mazrim Taim. It's just too obvious a choice, although I can see how others could 'connect the dots' and arrive at this conclusion. A lot, if not all, of the pieces fit...so to speak. I thought RJ was tons more clever than this. It seems that RJ had almost everything worked out from the beginning. Hence all the early foreshadowing of events, major and minor, in the story. Having Demandred follow a similar path as Rand, but with the Sharans and do mostly all of this completely off-screen [as River of Souls would suggest]...to me that makes sense and even feels right. Well, more right than having Demandred pose as Taim. Given Demandred's character and motivations I never really saw Taim-andred as 'working' within the WoT story-line. It would have been too much of a stretch for Demandred. At some point he would have snapped. Demandred's ego is too big to have it any other way. Of course, sometimes it's best to hide [or be hidden] in plain site too. I'm starting my next readthrough soon and will be keeping an eye out for any early foreshadowing either way. Maybe I'll see something I haven't before.

Do you, by chance, have a link these notes? Until your post, I had heard this was only a rumor.

In the books, it wasn't a female Amrilyn who opposed LTT, but a powerful, and influential, female AS...whose name escapes me. She got just about every other powerful female AS to join her in opposing LTT.

Ample bosoms and sniffs... I always thought this was just more gender stereotyping. With each example helping to prove both gender's worldviews? And it ties in with the spankings in a sense. Spanking/Corporal punishment is mostly used for childish behaviour on children. One could argue most of Randlanders act daily in a childish manner, some more so than others. As such the constant spankings are justified? Recall RJ was a military cadet, at a time when spankings, and other creative forms of discipline, would have been used as a matter of course. Finally, this form of punishment is, to some extent, shame-inducing. Enduring the shame is supposed to build character, at least in someone lacking enough to have to be shamed. These 2 topics, the gender stereotyping and the spanking, in WoT. It seems to me RJ might have been trying to make a point without stating one outright. Or perhaps RJ was just having fun with world-building, or something else?

Exactly what they are, or should be. I'm vaguely familiar with some Kung Fu Forms, as in it's the only other martial art i'm aware of where some movements have these flowery, poetic descriptions. The descriptions were usually taken from comparisons with the natural world, but also had meanings beyond their face-value. To illustrate with your example, "Boar rushes down the mountain' sounds like a forceful, quick, straight-line movement. Whereas 'Parting the silk' sounds more relaxed, gentle and onmi-directional. Think Shaolin Monk meets TaiChi Master... So one could use a little imagination and come up with a vague representation of the actual sword fight RJ was trying to describe. It is work though to try and do this. My takeaway was it seemed to add a degree of authenticity to the story. I appreciated that.

Be that as it may, Mattrim's skill at penning [that means writing] letters is bloody unparalleled.

You're correct. It is indeed Alivia and she claims to have worn the A'dam for over 400 years, iirc.

These are tools or implements...not weapons. imo. If the argument is that these tools, if/when used improperly, can be made into weapons...where does it end? Just about anything can be used as a weapon. Intent of the user seems much more important, and perhaps relevant, than the tool or implement. For the AS using the OP to discipline or to bind someone, I suspect the AS is thinking of their use of the OP in the same way, as a tool or implement. Even when Elaida had Egwene tied up with Air and was switching her with Air. We can suspect Elaida wanted to cause Egwene pain [Elaida was quite unhinged], but Elaida never intended to maim, kill, or cause serious bodily harm to Egwene. So Elaida's Oath never activated and prevented her actions against Egwene. It all comes down to what the AS believes. In WoT this kinda makes sense, as it just goes to show even when you think you have an AS pinned-down. Nope, think again. How I see it anyway.

I agree with much of what you post, but I don't think I can with this. I don't think the Tinkers are/were descendants of the Jenn Aiel. Had they been, they would have remained and either died off at Rhuidean or become part of what we know as the 3rd Age Aiel. If that's how it happened? I fully admit that my memory of Rand's trip through the columns is a little foggy. I think some "Leafers" broke off from what remained of the caravan to find a place of safety. They even went so far as to toss out the Ter'Angreal and Chora cuttings from wagons to make room for food/water. This then evolved into both looking for safety and searching for "The Song". And these people became the "Lost Ones" to the Aiel and Tinkers to the rest of Randland. I also think the Aiel who remained to make the journey to Rhuidian were composed of both "Leafers" and warriors, where the warriors protected the caravan the rest of the way to Rhuidean. Any remaining "Leafers" in Rhuidean are what the 3rd Age Aiel refer to as the "Jenn Aiel"; and the warriors would become the 3rd Age Aiel. So in this, the Tinkers did break their promise to the AS. Again, if I have this correct. I'll keep this in mind for my next readthrough, as this is one of my favorite parts of the series. As far as the question OP poses...what does the truth of the Tinkers origin mean for the Tinkers now? I don't think much at all. I recall reading something from either RJ or Team Jordan that the Tinkers Aiel bloodlines are so diluted that they wouldn't experience anything when passing through the columns at Rhuidean. So for them the truth would just be an interesting, or insulting, campfire tale. Insulting because the Tinkers know most peoples of Randland don't hold them in high regard, aside from their Tinker skills. So, from a Tinker's PoV, I can see how this information could easily be taken the wrong way. Tragic: Yes, in the sense that they will never find "The Song". The same article I sorta referenced above goes on to say that the Tinkers wouldn't recognize "The Song" if it was sung to/for them. I too wanted them to have some closure with this search and this revelation disappointed me. And yes, so far as their wilders are concerned. Channelers in the Tinker cadre, at least wilders, were never meant to be "Leafers". They were always removed to study using the OP, and somehow that implied "This is NOT the Way". I'll be honest and admit I don't fully understand why someone couldn't be a channeler and follow "The Way of the Leaf". One of my takeaways from the columns was that this never happened in the 2nd Age. No reason given. Now wilders among the Tinkers will be collared and treated inhumanely. Tragic: Ultimately, No. Not for the Tinkers as a people. With the Seanchan, the Tinkers have finally found their "Safe Haven". I think that's why there were numerous Tinker caravans in Seanchan-controlled areas of Randland, with more coming in. And their search for "The Song" [of Growing] evolved from the actual song to something that would return to them a place of safety where they would be allowed to freely follow "The Way of the Leaf". Throwing their lot in with the Seanchan does this. They have finally found a place of safety. They no longer need to search. The Tinkers finally found a home. I can be at peace with that. 3000 years is a long time to be moving around.

"To live, you must die". Word-for-word answer to Rand, from the Finns, about how to survive TG, iirc. With the body swap, this becomes 'we bury Moridin/Ishmael as the Dragon and let Randland mourn'. Hmm...I was going to say, as I have previously elsewhere, that since Avi, Elayne, and Min aren't freaking out due to the loss of their warder, we can know the bond still exists. However, is this bond the same as the AS warder bond? Maybe moot as I also recall Rand commenting that he still has all three inside his head. So I'm going with the bond wasn't severed. Which explains Avi's, Elayne's, and Min's calm demeanor during the funeral. I guess their positions could also explain their lack of wailing and such [Wise One/ Queen/TruthSayer respectively]. Itregardless, I believe they know Rand lives still. Once Nynaeve calms down, she'll figure it out or at least have a conversation with one/all of them. Cads knows based on what she says to Rand as he's leaving the funeral. Can any of these 5 women tell Tam publicly in such a way as to insure the secret remains? No expert but I don't see how. Whatever threat this false-front is providing cover against, I feel like it's planned to be permanent. So Tam would have to suffer some full measure of grief. But why are we to assume Tam doesn't already know? I recall reading, most likely on here, that Team Jordan put out a statement to the effect that Rand would be involved in raising his kids. If he's doing that, then at some point he's also met with/told Grandpa. His 'superior upbringing' would demand it, no? And why do we assume Rand is riding off to nowhere special? Maybe he's getting a head start back to the Two Rivers and Tam, et all, will catch him up on the road? Rand will do the right thing. We just won't be there to see it. At least not officially. Didn't expect to ramble this long...

I liked how things ended. And like some have already said here, I was just grateful to get an ending. Did BS do right by us, the fan-base? For me, yes. And here's why...I got sucked into Randland with the BS-written books just as surely as RJs. Well, maybe not as surely but it did happen [the thread title does ask honesty]. The BS books felt really off the first time I read them. This feeling stuck through to my first reading of AMoL. Afterwards, I didn't touch WoT for 10 years or more. Recently, I did a complete read through. Last 3 still felt a little off, but only a little. And I couldn't be happier. Plot...excellent. BS originally signed on to finish in a single volume. We got 3 instead. Can't ask for much more. And we're still talking about this part of the story...more than a decade since the final book was released. Not true RJ material, but similar enough...for this reader anyhow. Could things have been better? Sure, had RJ lived. But that seems awful selfish, IMO. From what I understand and remember, RJ made hella notes regarding the end of the WoT because he knew he wouldn't survive to finish himself. And RJ didn't want to leave us fans, or whoever would complete the WoT, with something inadequate. So I can honestly say this reader is very satisfied with the ending.

Thank you for the I insanely outrageous burst of laughter completely out of nowhere. I needed this today. Those AS are a troublesome bunch in the beginning, and the middle, and the end even. AS are extremely slow to change, and to learn. And why should they? They outlive everyone else, they 'know' more than everyone else. Everyone defers to them, even the ruling monarchs..even if the monarchs defer without realizing it. I don't blame the AS for the way they are, or how they act. Mostly I see them as a product of their environment, per se. They evolved to be the way they are because of the events like the Breaking, Hawkwing's rule, Ishmael's corruption of how AS are perceived, human nature, etc. And humans are generally lazy...it takes way more energy to challenge the status quo than to just go with the flow. This is the general impression I got...at first. As the series progresses, you get to see within the WT, see through various AS PoVs, and come to realize life in the WT is hella complicated. You also get to see examples of AS who are excellent people in their own right trying to follow some semblance of common sense action instead of the mob rule. So my perceptions changed. Thing is, I can't really say how far they changed when we finally got to the end of the story. As far as a general consensus of my feelings towards AS...lets just say the jury's still out. Nynaeve however. I didn't like her at first. Fiercely. For reasons you're well aware of. But the more Nynaeve was on-screen, the more o found her antics...shall we say amusing? She's like moss tho...she grows on you. Especially after she comes to the defense of a certain fan-favorite character. Nynaeve is wicked awesome and fun. But she's also AS Where is the shrug emoji? These are my thoughts and opinions. Any relation to facts is purely coincidental or happenstance.

This is me, except with the entirety of the series and/or the characters. I reread and gain new perspectives. Either I see things differently, pickup on stuff I'd missed, make connections I haven't previously, or I myself am not the same as during a previous read. This all seems to combine and add to the magic. I was fully invested in the series after only the first half of TEoTW. Got it for free from a local bookseller. These first three are very old, very dear, friends.

Thanks for responding. I agree we can never know the full extend of what RJ had planned, but it is fun and entertaining to speculate. I also agree that we don't know if the pattern is finished with any of the remaining super-boys/girls or what role Rand might have played in the 4th Age. And as much as it galls me to admit, I thought of a reason to keep Rand Ta'veren, or at least a reason for Rand to have some kind of newfound power...Lanfear. I found her supposed death very satisfying for some reason. Perhaps because of what she was trying to do, or get Perrin to do, in the cave at the end of AMoL. Upon further musing I can't think of a really good reason for RJ to have killed her off, besides spite for her actions throughout the series. As an agent of Shadow, Lanfear was THE most ineffective of the Forsaken (please someone correct me if I'm mistaken on this). And I suspect this is part of the reason why she was mind-trapped. From what I can recall, everything she did was to serve her own wants/desires above everything, and everyone else...Dark One included. Team Jordan's reveal that Lanfear still lives, and the explanation of how and why, left me with the impression that Lanfear wants to fade into the background. But I see this as very out-of-character for her. And as I read above, the Pattern is about maintaining balance. In this respect I could see Rand, and his newfound powers of shaping reality, as a counter-point to the threat of Lanfear, the knowledge she carries from the AoL, and the fact the she is still remains an agent of Shadow. I wonder if she considers herself Nae'blis by default? I also wonder what ever happened to her Cou'sova(sp?)?

@Lightfriendsocialmistress You have my sincere apology. Your post in response to mine had me feeling bad and got me to thinking. I'm sorry if my old-man powers of recollection had you feeling that you were missing something obvious. You weren't. At all. The community struggled with this for a while before Team Jordan gave us insights. Any fault was not yours, but mine. I humbly ask your, and the communities, forgiveness.

Poorly, or well written, the wonder-boys always seemed to work for me. Same goes for most/all of the other characters. Granted, I was to into devouring the story to consider the character's motivations. It all seemed to make sense at the time I was reading. And that sense of making sense seems to return when I reread. It all fits together. It all, they all, just seem to work; so I lean back and enjoy the adventure.

Also this.

I may have been including info from outside sources and thinking of that info as 'Canon". Mea Cupla.

This.

With much trepidation and gnashing of teeth? I re-read and lurked on sites like Dragonmount.

I subscribe to the theory that TA'R is the 'real' world and the reality of "Randland" is just a shard split off from T'A'R. Rand realizes this during his Pattern-weaving lessons with the Dark One. I found a link to the theory in another thread on Dragonmount. You can also view the knowledge of the true nature of reality, and Rand's newfound ability, as a gift from the Pattern.

Last Battle is over. Bore is perfectly resealed, so as to appear never breached. Why does the Pattern need Rand to still be Ta'veren? As I understand things [feel free to grab an industrial-sized salt lick] being Ta'veren is up to the needs of the Pattern and functions as a correction mechanism for the Pattern. What threat to the Pattern remains? Or are you suggesting he over-wrote/over-rode the Pattern in this instance to give himself powers? As that seems completely out of character for the Rand we know. I'm curious how you justify your position, not that you need to justify anything. To anyone. Ever.I've read some of your other posts and you don't strike me as the kind of person who would say something like this and leave the statement to stand all on its own. So I guess I'm asking you to share a little more with us. Pretty please. With some cherries and sprinkles on top. 😀