1 hour ago, CaddySedai said:

Even if it was done with puppets?

Especially if it was done with puppets. ?

I never knew I needed this in my life and I have no idea how I will go on now without it.

So, thanks?

(Spoilers. All the spoilers for many books.)

A little late for this thread going by the last post but here some moments where I actually cried sometimes more than a little. For the last book and not in any order.

When Lan is on what he thinks is his last ride against the Trollocs and the gates open up behind him I had to stop and calm myself down for a while.
Siuan's death, I was expecting it but it still managed to make me cry.
Egwene's Flame of Tar Valon bit? Surprisingly not really because of Egwene but because how much it reminded me of the story of Queen Eldrene of Menetheren.
Rand´s “It’s never been about me” speech. I have no words just made me cry like a baby.
Lan's apparent death when he took down Demandred and also later on when it turns out he didn’t die when he took down Demandred.
 

I am sure there are more but these are the ones that came to mind just now. As for the other books:
 

Rand’s time out in the box. So many tears, all of them really. It took me ages to read it because I would just burst into tears again and again every other paragraph.
When they cleansed Saidin.
Menetheren.
When Nynaeve Healed Logain.
Nynaeve getting the army for Lan.
The Hinderstap bubble of Evil. Most bubbles of Evil made me cry a little.
When they even hinted at how Shadowspawn were created for each kind.

And I am going to leave it here or I will start crying again.

The flashbacks to the Age of Legends and the old kingdom of Menetheren and really all the stories of old kingdoms that get told to the characters for one reason or another.

I need that in my life. All the flashbacks! Even if it´ s not actors playing in them, say the Tale of the Three Brothers from Harry Potter. I just want to see it and hear it so bad.

Also pretty much anything else in the story of course, but the history of the world, the legends they have, I want to see them acted out, animated, whatever way they choose to do it, I just hope they do it.

(Spoilers maybe for episode one or two?)

And also let´ s consider (having just seen the trailer a minute ago again to make sure) Moiraine doesn’t look old she looks expressionless, even during what we can safely assume is Winternight when she is Channeling the huge lightning storm, Edmon’s Field is on fire around her, literally and figuratively and she is Channeling a lot and her face is mostly blank.

And looking at the rest of the Aes Sedai on the scenes (though they could have carefully handpicked scenes for the trailer to show just that) they all mostly have blank faces, or angry looking faces but they are Reds so what else can we expect?

We can just pretend they look ageless?

I mean, taking into account the money it would cost them to do it, I rather see them spend it in other more important CGI moments not to say anything about the hours it would take to get every Aes Sedai in one shot the ageless look.

They can just tell us Channelers live for hundreds of years and leave it at that. It´ s not like we will be spending all those years with them any way though I would mind if the show turned out really good and just went on and on and on.

@thehumantrashcan

(Spoilers here too! Don’t read any more if you are not done with the books.)

I honestly can´ t say there is one reason, I will tell you a few of my thoughts about it in very broad strokes because if I could I would just not stop thinking and talking about it and I would make myself feel horrible.

(Before that just really quick I agree with your Edit. For me an Utopia is creepy and only good as a beginning in a story, something like “And then we realized we are in the Matrix and we started fighting the machines.” I rather see the destruction of a society and it picking itself up than their “ascension” to Utopia.)

But back on topic.

I think we have to give (a bit grudgingly) leeway to those poor people in the past because they also thought that a solar eclipse was the End Times. Honestly if we didn’t have the science know-how that we do nowadays I can't say I wouldn’t fell the same way and even worse we would likely still behave the same way.

I can´ t say my real opinion about the countries that allow that sort of thing today. I will just say I hope I am never in a life-or-death situation where I have to go to one of them or die because I might just accept my end gracefully.

I think it may be more about the fact that they live in this world where so many questions we have (and will likely continue to have endlessly) have answers. There is a God, like an actual God that created them and there is something Evil that acts as his counterpart.

And then! Even more incredibly and useful in a day-to-day basis as not all people would be thinking or care really about their immortal souls when you have to eat and care for your family etc. there is Magic (to give it a more common name) there are people that can literally wave a hand and change reality and you as a society decide to enslave them?

What? Why? It´ s infuriating!

It makes me despair at what we would do in the real world if we came across something or someone like that, it’s one thing to think about it in an abstract way and another to actually see it realized on paper. I hate it. I just hate it so much, this was the first time (speaking about fantasy) that something, someone, etc. made me feel actual hate.

It would be different if the Seanchan killed the Channelers, I wouldn’t like it but yeah ok it´ s a “normal” reaction, right? Kill the Witches and Warlocks, we went through that and so many people died (and the Wizarding World went into hiding.) but fine it´ s just the ignorance and fear our ancestors lived with. We can judge them all we like but ultimately it doesn’t help them, it helps us and future generations only.

But no! Let´s take Magic and warp it and make it into such an awful thing that makes me wish the One Power was just not a thing full stop in order to stop the Seanchan from having the means to use it.

I think that if Rand had gotten rid of them at the end it would have made the entire story better, I even think that if Rand had gone off in the opposite direction of Shayol Ghul and let the entire world burn just to see the Seanchan go down with it would have been worth it as an ending. There is always a next time for the Dragon Reborn to save the world.

(I like the ending as it is just fine, I am just saying that for me personally no more Seanchan, seeing them burn and scream to the Creator "Why oh why?" as they die slowly in the distance while the rest of our heroes point and laugh at them would have elevated it.) 

So yeah, lots and lots of bad feelings and bias against the Seanchan. I try to not think about them much to be honest because as you can see, I get a bit invested.

Thankfully I can also be reasonable and after the rant is over walk away and go on with life accepting that it is just a story, it doesn’t really matter and more importantly say anything about anyone who likes the Seanchan or not and that is very good for my peace of mind.

(I still judge them though.)?

I can’t even think on how to articulate the depths of the hate I feel towards every single chapter where the Seanchan make an appearance but I will give the quick notes. Also, spoilers for the end of the story. Don’t read this if you are not done with it, just in case.

I don’t care if the Seanchan succeed or if they fail, they are a non-entity, I care more for the tiny little insects I step on without thinking every time I walk on a garden.

In my head-canon Rand will get to random town #4, catch a bit of sleep in a nice Inn, wake up, have a bite to eat and suddenly remember about Tuon and her people and just will them out of the Pattern.

Poof, gone. It´ s not about revenge or about them learning a better way of life, I want them just forgotten forever.

I hate them, I don’t think they add anything of worth to the story. Finding other ways of character development would have been better for our heroines. Like honestly, just make them go away.

People can like whatever they want and appreciate nuances and all that but just know that silently and deep, deep in my heart if you do like the Seanchan there is at least one person out there judging you a tiny bit. ?‍⚖️

Now with that very emotional and subjective rant out of the way, I will try and express myself objectively if only to contribute something in this thread.

In my very personal opinion, in this fantastical story the Seanchan are a reflection of the real world. I don’t mean like the contemporary world (at least not for the most part) but our beginnings, our middle and if we are not ever vigilant and careful our end.

The way our ancestors saw evil (compared to their “good” whatever it was at that point in our world´ s history) and had to destroy or subjugate it wherever they went to, that in a nutshell is the Seanchan. Even the way they justify it is practically the same. Do as I say not as a do anyone?

So, I guess their purpose in the story (in my opinion) is just to show how nothing would really change for us poor humans even if the existence of a God, any God (and their counterpart) was proven as a fact of life. Good and Evil on a cosmic or godly level so to say is completely different to the good and evil that exist in our hearts, whatever justification we give it to help us sleep at night it´s there in all our hearts and we have to live with it and make the best of it as we go along with our lives.

Despite my secret wish to see them willed into oblivion by Rand, most likely as it happened and continues to happen in our world the change in the Seanchan society will come about naturally and gradually as they interact with the new people in Westlands and beyond.

Putting it in this way is what eventually helped me accept their existence in the story, at least now as a semi-functional adult, in my late teens to early twenties I was just waiting for the chapter where they were all finally, finally set on fire by Egwene or Rand.

No! Don´t give up! I would recommend using the frustration as fuel for your wish to see certain characters fail or succeed as the story goes on! Then when they do fail you will fee satisfaction and when they don’t you have even more fuel!

I hate this series with the intensity of a thousand burning suns and I love it in the same way, sometimes more.

I think the story is amazing because it can make us feel like that! If it wasn’t we just wouldn’t care at all. We wouldn’t rage at it or want to shake some sense into the characters. We wouldn’t be here talking about it. It has issues of course, but show me a book that doesn’t have any as you read it or in hindsight.

I don’t know how old you are but I can tell you that when I started reading, I was just about to turn 19 and the character flaws you listed weren’t so obvious to me, it all made perfect sense, putting Rand and co. on my friends’ shoes or even mine at the time? The world would have been doomed from page 1.

I didn’t start hating the way they acted until I was way older and could clearly see how just communicating their thoughts and feelings could have shortened the story by a couple of books or more, but that is the beauty of it!

These kids are just that! You wouldn’t put most adults on most of the positions they are put on, thinking the teens in the story have issues for me is redundant, the problem of the series is the adults really, it’s terrifying to think the way they all just drop the ball so utterly and it makes perfect sense that they would too.

So maybe a shift in perspective is what you need to continue to read and enjoy the books, we all want to be the hero so we put ourselves in the shoes of the main characters but imagine yourself as random foot soldier #25 that is watching all the Nobles run around like headless chickens.

Maybe you are one of the poor Asha´man with barely a tickle of power. For thousands of years those like you have been hunted throughout the lands and now this crazy guy says it’s okay to Channel?

Or random Aes Sedai #15. The way of life you are used to, the way it has been for thousands of years is crumbling around you and worse there are several teenagers calling the shots!

So yeah, stick with it! Be strong. You can do it! And even if you finish the whole series and think that it was a waste of time you never know, maybe the Amazon series will be amazing and you will be able to compare the two and even talk about it more fully if it becomes mainstream.

Hello!

New to this forum but a long, long time fan of the books.

Got into it in my late teens and was just a part of my life for so long, reading and re-reading everything each time a new book came out and being part of another community of like-minded people for a couple years (Sadly it kind of went away long before the last book came out) and when it did, when I actually had the holy grail last book on my hands and got about halfway through, I went a bit loopy and figured if I didn’t actually finish the book it wouldn’t have to end right? So, I just closed the book and went on with my life figuring that would be it.

Only to hear rumors about a TV show a few years later but really? WoT on the screen no way, right? Everyone knows there is just no way they could adapt such a story! Right? No way they could pull it off!

And now… Now having watched the trailer too many times (just to make sure) and finding it “not bad, maybe good? Very interesting at least? Better love story than Twilight? Better than the complete 8^th GoT season?” I figured it might be time to put on my big girl pants and finally fish out my copy of A Memory of Light out of its very homey deep dark pit of despair – I mean denial and join the world again and share my totally normal – not obsessive at all feelings about WoT with others.

And here we are, I shall be lurking carefully until I finish the book, about halfway through it again. Hopefully when I am done, I can start being a normal member of society again and not get asked very politely to leave this website.

I´m fine. We are all fine right?

Happy to meet you all!