5 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

To each their own, I suppose. But I genuinely do not understand the argument that changing the look of a weapon or other item from the way it is described in the book is some sort of ominous sign. 

 

The heart of these books has nothing to do with the way Jordan describes things. It has to do with the characters: their journeys alongside Rand and the parts they all play leading up to Tarmon Gaidon. Putting the ruby on the hilt of the dagger instead of capping the pommel doesn't make a whit of difference. Slightly changing the way Mat acquires the dagger, likewise makes little difference to his character or the way he pushes the plot forward.

 

I don't know whether the show will be good. I don't know whether it will do justice to the source material. But I do know that if it is bad or fails to live up to its potential, it won't be because Tam's sword doesn't have a heron on the grip. 

I like and agree with this post. It seems people are getting worked up about pretty small things (which is their right), but I’ll be happy if they get the characters right (or mostly right) and get the feel of the books right and just make the whole world seem very REAL. 

Yeah, that tweet seemed to dump cold water on my wavering hopes. I am now thinking fall at earliest.  I guess we all want them to take the time necessary for a really great product. All the waiting is tough. 

I’m seeing more and more guesses for fall release. I sure hope to be pleasantly surprised with a earlier release. 

It’s so interesting to me that were all wondering if it will be this spring or if it will be fall, or if it will be next year.  And it really could be ANY of those options. They’re keeping their release plans tightly under wraps. I wonder the strategy of when to announce a release date and why to do it sooner or later. 

1 minute ago, Borderlander said:

Very interesting, and I will pore over the concept art for the next few days... but my first thoughts are more along the lines of, What is this? Like, literally, what is this little, dinky video? I like it, sure, but why did they make it? Who is it for? ?

 

It was not for Wotwednesday, obviously—which I assume Amazon regards as a cute pet project, but clearly not something they pour unlimited time and resources into.

 

Elder_Haman is probably right that it is a promotional snippet for something... but for what? A panel or convention? I didn't think those existed anymore, post-COVID. It's almost too short to be of any great promotional use, anyway... Maybe this is an excerpt of a longer reel? I doubt Rafe sat down for an interview and only gave a 12-second sound bite... so where's the rest? Maybe they are preparing a longer pre-teaser preview for media websites to start sprinkling out, and this was just a quick-cut to keep us happy for another week or so...? 

I bet it is part of a “behind the scenes” feature to accompany release or come along after the first season. 

I will say that in and of itself the content is very cool and encouraging. I agree with it feeling like the atmosphere and visual flavor is right.  I just think I need to temper my expectations for a release date or full trailer. Also, VERY generous of Rafe and WOT on Amazon to release these snippets and keep us engaged/eager. I just am wanting an escalation and/or timetable. 

Cool for sure, but a little underwhelming. I guess I’m getting impatient for more info on release.  I guess I’m a victim of my own excitement and hype. 

On 1/12/2021 at 2:23 PM, Borderlander said:

WOT is my favorite book series ever; I have read it through (only) twice, and I think I have a pretty good head for remembering details and important plotlines in most of the books I read, but to be honest, I can't even remember what ultimately led Moiraine to the Two Rivers... in my hazy memory, she has been a sort of lone ranger out following foggy clues from one backwater town to the next, searching for the DR, based on some kind of foretelling from A New Spring. I am not asking anyone to explain it to me further; I only mention all that to make a point that I think a lot of book-fans are in the same category—we love the books, love the story, want the show to be as accurate as possible, and yet I can't always even remember the specifics of what I want it to be accurate to. Which means I have a lot of built-in flexibility for how they get from Point A to Point B. Invent a new character to summon Moiraine to Emond's Field? Cool. Kill Tam in episode 1? I'll go along with it. As long as the Emond's Field Five flee from a burning village in the middle of the night with a mysterious Aes Sedai and her stoic warder, I'm on board. Actually, it is a slippery slope (in my own mind) to wonder what I would be willing to go along with and where I would draw the line, in terms of plot-rejiggerings.

 

I think about this with a lot of books: what is are the main pillars of the story? What would happen if you commissioned Stephen King to rewrite Harry Potter, told him he had to do it in 7 books, had to have three main characters named Harry, Ron, and Hermione, gave him about 20-30 other main plot-points he had to hit, and left the rest up to him to cobble together? What would the end result be? Would we like it more or less than Rowling's version? What if you commissioned 100 different authors to do the same thing? Maybe I would prefer Brandon Mull's version, my friend would love Stephen King's version, someone else would love Neil Gaimon's version, etc. As a writer myself, I often wonder if I am writing the best-possible version of the books I write, or just one of 10,000 possible versions. Which leads me to wonder, as my eyes roam over the 13 fat volumes of Wheel of Time on my shelf, what another writer's version might look like. Or, in this case, a room full of writers, and a showrunner.

 

All that is to say, if you gave Robert Jordan a second chance at rewriting the entire series, what would he do differently? Cut some early plotlines, beef up the foreshadowing in the early books, cut this, add that, trim this, change that? At its worst, a writer's room can lead to a 'too many cooks in the kitchen' type of situation; at its best, having a dozen fresh pairs of eyes to soak in Jordan's epic saga, chew it over, digest it, and retool certain elements may give us a cleaner, crisper version of the story than one lone author working solo for the better part of three decades could possibly hope to create. Will it be better? That is a matter of opinion, obviously. Not trying to detract from Jordan at all; I stand in awe of what he accomplished. Well, I am just rambling now... I swear I had a point when I started this... ?

I love this post and TOTALLY agree with the premise. 

Good points by Thrasymachus. Set expectations. Easier said than done I know, but honestly had it come out years ago I bet it’d be closer to Legend of the Seeker than GOT, and I’d rather it be closer to GOT/LOTR with budgets, production values, etc. 

This is really hard for me to see... elder haman and thrasymachus, two of my favorite contributors on this forum getting annoyed with each other. I can see the points each are making. But tend to agree with elder on this one. I’m not saying it’s going to come that early, but #1 I hope it does, and #2 it is at least plausible. 
 

it may be that I just want to believe that it could be coming soon, and thrasymachus has some good points, but I do think we’ll know by Christmas (which isn’t far away). In truth I would guess it is probably not coming in spring, but I hope it is and elders point are well thought out. 

23 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

So WoTSeries.com is reporting that filming is taking place in Spain at the end of November and the beginning of December. 

I saw that. So something is not lining up. We apparently are not on hiatus until April. What is going on??

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

I have to say, the radio silence from the production team is disconcerting. 

I agree.  Although it seems like there is a slight chance for a surprise good announcement, because why would they just say NOTHING about bad news...? It seems like they should a often the blow a little by letting us know what to expect...

22 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

ok, so either the production has halted because of covid, or it has halted because they are done....

but why aren't we hearing anything?

both occasions should have elicited some official statement. the previous time, when they stopped production for covid, they announced it. and i believe they would announce if they finished filming.

 

I agree. Why all the radio silence on this?

I agree with Thrasymachus (as I usually seem to) that a big worry is having enough popularity to get a nice length to the series. Streamers see more benefit in starting new series to drive subscriptions (that are cheaper than long running shows). Only the mega hits seem to persist. Fingers crossed. The Shannara series was rough, I couldn’t make it through the second season. From everything I am seeing this will be much better, but in truth so much has to align to get a mega hit that will have staying power. Again, fingers crossed. 
 

I’m sorry to see that it may have a further delayed release, but understand why that may be necessary. At this point I am so excited I don’t know how it will live up to expectations. I’ll have to TRY tempering them a little. Haha. 

I haven’t really heard any updates on this topic. I saw more speculation on dusty wheel, but just rehashing the wot series scoop and Daniel Greene info. I would love to hear something more concrete. I really want it to be mainly done, but in terms of anything concrete it’s just been crickets.  It does occur to me that the time they got back in Prague is maybe roughly what they lost from the original schedule, but maybe COVID really slowed things down even after they got back. 

6 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Noting that tomorrow (9/16) is the anniversary of Robert Jordan's passing. Also noting that tomorrow is #WoTWednesday.

I can't imagine that we won't get something from the team tomorrow. Is it too much to hope that it will be a longer teaser? 

I like how you think! Wouldn’t that be great!?! I bet they tighten down on too much more excitement until release is sooner. Grr. 

7 hours ago, Harldin said:

No haven’t heard much at all, won’t be a lot in S1 anyway, just Ishy and the 3 boys. Personally i imagine it as a permanent twilight, one way of doing could be to film it in Black and White and just the characters in colour, though muted.

I love the idea of black and white with muted character colors!

On 9/6/2020 at 9:01 AM, Elder_Haman said:

I don’t hate the Eye. But we have to remember that Jordan wasn’t certain that he would get to publish his entire masterpiece. He admittedly wrote the end to feel like an end. And the result is something that worked in the books but may not work as well on screen. 

I don’t think they will get rid of the Eye entirely. But I do think the way they get there will change. I think the Green Man and the Foresaken will be eliminated entirely. 
 

If it were me, the tension of the season will be in the realization that the Aes Sedai are dangerous to our heroes. I would stoke the tension between needing to heal Mat and being afraid that Rand will be gentled (like we see happen to Logain). 
 

I would have Moiraine realize that the Tower isn’t safe and maybe settle on the Eye as the only other chance for Mat or something. 
 

When Rand uses the power of the Eye (just to beat some shadow spawn), he ends up at the Gap. It can be a major revelation for the audience (“oh snap! He’s the Dragon!), ratchet up the tension (oh snap! Siuan is headed to Fal Dara too - Rand is gonna be gentled!), and flip expectations when Siuan turns out to be on team Rand. 
 

I think if the show is going to work, they should always choose to focus on character ahead of plot. There’s more growth if the Eye is something that happens on the way to Fal Dara as opposed to being the destination. 
 

But that’s just my $0.02

 

 

I love this point and totally agree that the main focus MUST be the characters rather than checking endless boxes of places and events. A big reason GOT was so great we’re the fascinating characters. My biggest hope for a successful series is doing the characters really well. 

I have been so impatient to hear concrete updates on resumption of filming. Especially after hearing about Witcher and Carnival Row etc. Marcus Rutherford posted some emoji’s to suggest he’s back on location, but nothing concrete from anyone that I’ve seen. I compulsively look for info on updates for this show, I just need to chill and forget it for 6 months...

I was trying to decide what set game of thrones apart so much to make it so compelling and so incredibly successful and watched.  The good writing and acting and source material are the easy answers, but as we all know, source material doesn't guarantee a great compelling TV series.  The high budget with very good sets and costumes and locations.  Special and practical effects that look real and add rather than detract.  One of the most compelling things is the fantastic and nuanced characters.  WOT series seems to have good acting and budget and sets etc.  We already know the source material is good.  Casting seems to be good, but time will tell.  GOT also minimized magical elements, and there's not really a way WOT can do that, so hopefully the magic is very well executed.  Now to the question at hand: how mature should this series be?

I think that it tends to lend a feeling of realism and gravity and consequence, that lighter fantasy series really lack.  I think that a more unflinching depiction would lead to a more visceral and consequential feel to the series.  A lot of "lightweight" poorly done fantasy series keep coming to mind as I ponder this topic.  Keeping things for all audiences makes it a harder line to walk I think.  I realize LOTR is a great exception to the rule, being kept in PG13 territory, but again I think it is the exception and if Rafe decides to go that way, I really hope he pulls it off.  Something I read Rafe write makes me wonder if we will be getting a somewhat sanitized version.  My vote however is more towards an HBO version than a CW version.  I don't think there needs to be a lot of explicit nudity and extreme gore shoehorned in to pull this off, but I wouldn't shy away from it either. 

After reading LOTS of speculation on various sites, there is some REALLY well thought out advice and pretty strong opinions. I suppose Rafe needs to tune it out and stick to his vision and be informed by those on his team and trusted advisors etc. I suspect most of the advice either aligns or doesn’t and it’s really too late for most to affect production anyway. 

That being said:

I have heard a variety of guesses on how mature the content will be.  I admit there are examples of well done less mature fantasy series (LOTR).  Often fantasy series tend to appear low budget (this apparently won’t thankfully), and often overly cheesy. I think one of the reasons GOT succeeded was avoiding cheesiness, in part with great writing and acting, and in part because of the grittiness and unflinching depictions.  I know it’s a balance between approachability to all audiences and the more mature GOT type audience, but with that recent excellent example of how well a show like that can be, I guess I would be most interested in that side of things.  I recently read an article on fansided where Rafe replied to a question on maturity rating with: I want it to feel adult but be approachable to audiences. Reading that makes me worry punches will be pulled and the story won’t feel as consequential. But we will see. I would rather this be a change from Chuck or Marvel Agents of Shield in terms of tone, but I guess we’ll see...

Great video! For people on this forum it’s mostly stuff they know, but it is a perfect video for me to show friends who haven’t read the books to get them excited for the show!

23 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

 

This will be controversial, I'm sure. But if I'm one of the writers I get rid of Tarwin's Gap entirely.

 

I do this for a few reasons: (1) on every re-read it becomes clear to me that Jordan tacked Tarwin's Gap on just in case the book was going to have to stand alone. It's not really necessary - as cool and fun as it is; (2) if there's going to be a big battle between Rand and Ishamael/Ba'alzamon, there should only be one and it should happen at Falme; (3) the tv series will be better served by building a little mystery into the question of the Dragon - is it Rand? Tarwin's Gap pretty brutally undermines that; and (4) the tv series is also better served by not allowing Rand to decimate an entire army of Trollocs at the end of season 1. Allowing for the massive power creep while simultaneously keeping the tension high is going to be tough. Tarwin's Gap might break the tension for the whole series.

 

 

Agreed. That's why I put it in season 3 along with tSR (which I think is easier to condense than tGH).

I hadn’t thought about it, but I agree it will be difficult for the TV show to keep the tension through the power creep. I guess a middle ground may be found. It will be really interesting to see what they do ere for the tv series. 

On 5/24/2020 at 6:58 AM, Barid said:

I am also thinking 2/3 books per season.

 

Season 1: Book 1 and 2 + flashes from New Spring. Great season finale at Falme.

 

Season 2: Book 3 and 4. Fantastic season finale with fight against Moghedien, fight against Asmodean, and battle at Emond’s Field.

 

Season 3: Book 5 and 6. Amazing finale with Dumai’s Wells.

 

Season 4: Book 7, 8 and 9. Aren’t those books the shortest of them all? Great finale with the reveal of Tuon, and of course, the cleansing.

 

Season 5: Book 10 and 11, maybe with Rands part of 12 (I would love that finale), though this would probably be with more than 8 episodes. Perrin’s getting Faile back hopefully in only one season. Amazing finale with Mat’s marriage to Tuon, The Battle at Malden and Rand’s transformation. 

 

Season 6: The rest of book 12 + book 13. Finale with the rescue of Moiraine? 

 

Season 7: Book 14. Tarmon Gaidon. The end. Fewer episodes? 

 

I guess 7 seasons total.

 

Season finales sounds very shallow, but it is just my way of saying where the season should end.

 

Want to hear what others think of this.

Love the idea of these combinations. Realistically the show will have to be VERY successful to go this long, and I really hope it is!

On 4/20/2020 at 1:46 PM, MayEastRise said:

I think Berelain could be cut without changing the plot much. She doesn’t have much impact on the plot and when she does it could be argued to be some of the worst moments in the series.

 

This whole rivalry with Faile was one of my least favorite parts of the series and there isn’t really a point to it in my opinion. Every reader knows that Perrin won’t cheat on his wife and there isn’t some grande resolution that justifies wasting so much time on her. Add to that that much of this happens during the hostage plot which is also one of my (and many other people’s) least favorite parts and I think cutting Berelain might the show better.

 

What do you people think of this?

I think Faile was one of my least enjoyed parts of the series almost throughout.