The Aes Sedai who beat Rand in Lord of Chaos did not necessarily violate the Three Oaths. Jordan explained that the Three Oaths are bound by literal intent and perception. He said that the Aes Sedai could have considered the beatings a just punishment rather than the use of a weapon. He also suggested that not everything that harms you need be considered a weapon. I think he gave the example of a whip used lightly not considered a weapon, versus a whip used to flay skin being considered a weapon. On the subject of the first Oath ("to speak no word that is untrue"), Jordan said that Aes Sedai can say something they believe to be true or something they don't mean literally. As an example of the latter, an Aes Sedai can employ hyperbole and say something like, "I'm going to tie your ears over your head," when she means to do no such thing.

What happens to objects left in Tel'aran'rhiod? Could an AS free herself from the Three Oaths in Tel'aran'rhiod by creating an Oath Rod?

The only way for an object to enter Tel’aran’rhiod would be for it to be carried there by someone who entered physically rather than through a dream state. If left there, it would remain until it was retrieved by someone else who entered physically. And, yes, an Aes Sedai could free herself of the Three Oaths with an Oath Rod created in Tel’aran’rhiod, but remember that relatively few sisters actually have access to the World of Dreams, and for those who do want to remove the Three Oaths – sisters joining the Black Ajah – there is the Oath Rod in the White Tower to serve that purpose.

 

For Majsju, the oath against lying does leave room for sarcasm. It is intent and result that matter. No sister can intentionally speak an untruth either with the intent of passing on false information or with the belief that false information might be passed on. Thus the careful slicing and dicing of words. But if someone were to hold up a piece of white cloth and ask whether it was black or white, someone who had sworn the Three Oaths would be capable of saying that it was black as a matter of sarcasm. But not if, for example, the person asking the question was blind and thus might well take the statement for truth rather than sarcasm.

Robert Jordan

The oaths: They are quite subjective; if an Aes Sedai believes she is not lying, then the Oath doesn't stop her. So, that is what was going on in the torturing part of Lord of Chaos. It depends on the psychology of the individual. It's like spanking a naughty child. Some people regard that as child abuse; some people regard it as reasonable punishment.

 

Robert Jordan

No...now you have to be careful with this, because this is a kind of spoiler for people that haven’t read far enough, but the Oath Rod is what was in the Age of Legends called a binder. It was used on criminals. If you committed a violent act, or some sort of criminal act, with a binder, someone who could channel could be constrained from ever doing that again, and the result of having three of the Oaths, is the ageless appearance. One would not produce agelessness, but even one would shorten life, and three of them put a cap on Aes Sedai’s lives, on how long they could live.

Question

Does this mean that the Black Ajah has also at least three oaths sworn on the Oath Rod?

Robert Jordan

Yeah, they do. Just not the same ones.  [laughter]

Question

Quoting from Tamra in New Spring, "You will tell no one about this, not for any reason, if necessary lie, even to a sister, Gitara died without speaking, do you understand me?" How is it that Tamra can tell Moiraine and Siuan that Gitara died without speaking, when she knows full well that she did speak?

Robert Jordan

It's simple. It is part of her instructions. There are a lot, thousands of loop holes, about that thou will speak no word that is not true. This is part of her instructions, she is telling them what they are to say. She is not saying something she believes, and thus she was able to say it.

Question

I have a follow up to a question you just answered. Based on the Oaths, if a sister asked them, if they were instructed, as to what they have to say, would they be able to say it after taking the Oaths?

Robert Jordan

After taking the Oaths they would find it hard to say, even with instructions, they might not be able to say it at all, because they know it is a lie. That is the key you can't knowingly tell a lie.

The TOs are just prestidigitation, eye-wash.

I think the will work together, live together; regarding the core. But now (before TG) there are so many channellers, that they cannot live together.

But is there any reason for them to reunite before channeling is lost altogether and forgotten?

There's a little thing called life. Channeling will not die out five minutes after TG. 

@Orderofolde: Paaran Disen is not Gates of Hevan

Or, she's another victim in the very long line of fizzled out characters?


Why is this bothering me so?

Because I like her attitude, ambition; her hunger for revenge at any cost - she's not just making an excellent evil character, she reminds me of my younger self in a way. Nobody told me (when I was needed it most) that to reach my then goals, I'm not in the possession of enough IQ, EQ, virtues, skills etc. It would have been very good, but never happened. So, I had to learn it in the hard way.

When Temaile says that "You have never known how high to lift your eyes. ‘Who reaches for the sun will be burned.’" I get that feeling that she (or rather Jordan) judges her wrongly. She really tries to rise above herself to reach power, prestige ("For once in her life, slipping back into the accents of a commoner did not concern her in the least.") but I cannot disapprove her behavior (or her intentions), because if she does not want to stand into her place, then she has every right not to.

Back to my question: she had great promise early in the books, then she got an interesting flavour from Moggy, after that, unfortunately, she 'disappeared' from the story.

Of course, seeing the series unfinished (ending with KOD; if we ends it with LOC, I see her plot 'complete'), we will never know what was Jordan's plan to do with her, if anything at all.

Would you watch it "without any music"?

I mean there would be zero (cheesy) background music, except the voices of Moi and Mierin, Thom's flute, dancing in the inns etc.

Is it possible to making this kind of decision, or in these days there has to be some tunes on the tv speakers?

welcome back szilard,WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN???

I sent you a PM. (Theoretically.)

I really hope that they will not listen to some fans, who would be very happy if the first books/seasons would take place in a forest. Iirc, there are at least two forests mentioned in the books. I thought we are now beyond this kind of cutting corners. Ok, in these days, when the most forums are dried up, even the smallest conversation is very precious, but do not give them bad ideas.


One more thing. I was sent a few pictures of GOT this afternoon, and I had to ask the sender that who are these people, because I had no idea that 30+ years old actors are playing the teens.

As I'm getting older even people in their thirties look 'young' to me, but I'd like to see 20-22 yo actors for starters. (And they could go high as 26-27 in the final season, so no big difference.) If, and that is a big if, the first season will be a success, then maybe they could film all the acting scenes in 2-3 years, and the post production could take years after that. Of course, this means very,very meticulous planning, and paying big money upfront. Just an idea.

From another point of view, our heroes are getting so many strikes from life that inevitable that they look older. I don't know.

A sexual intercourse between a woman (4 limbs) and a man (4+1 limbs).

So, when Min says: “I have seen eight, and ten, but never nine.”, then it becomes a double joke for me.

Interview: Oct 22nd, 1994
LOC Signing Report - Pam Korda (Paraphrased)

John Novak asked what the Nine Horse Hitch was.

 

Robert Jordan: "You're too young for that."

 

He then said something about whipped cream, butterflies, and ribbons, but I'm definitely too young for that.

 

Rafe Judkins has been tapped to serve as showrunner, executive producer and writer on the Wheel of Time TV show. A longtime fan of Robert Jordan's epic 14-book fantasy series, Judkins previously wrote and produced on Marvel's Agents of SHIELD. He also wrote episodes of Chuck and wrote and produced episodes of Netflix's Hemlock Grove.

 

 

 

Well, at least he's a fan. Maybe he'll not muck it up too badly.

 

They always say that... You know, they have to drop a bone to the fans... Maybe (maybe?) Judkins has never even heard about WOT before...

My opinion: with J we will get something like this: https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/59d01f60882d5860856993fda4c675adc16fa3750753e47f4961202bae0cfd52.gif

I'm terrified. You know, so far the whole thing was just a theoretical game/experience.

No, to say I am terrified is an understatement.

One more thing: if this adaptation will fail, then the REE will be out of the picture.

Well, it looks that Sony has Justified ("it is probably worth $35 million to $45 million") and Outlander ($64 million) as their most expensive shows. Am I right?

Sony Pictures Television is really what I am researching here. They do have a decent track record for 1 hour long dramas:

Outlander (Starz)

Big-budget drama Outlander films in Scotland

• 12 March 2014

For the past six months a multi-million pound US TV series has been filming in Scotland, but there is still no word on when it will be shown in the UK.

Outlander has been filming across various locations, including a one-month stint at Doune Castle.

The drama's production is expected to last 38 weeks at a cost of more than £50m.

It has been described as Scotland's answer to Game of Thrones, the hit series from the US HBO network that has boosted the industry in Northern Ireland where it is mainly filmed.

Based on a series of novels from American author Diana Gabaldon, Outlander follows the story of Claire Randell, a nurse from 1946 who is mysteriously swept back in time to 1743, where she is immediately thrown into an unknown world where her life is threatened.

 

Dear Sony, 64 million is enough for the first season (if we are talking about Book 1, and not about Book 1+2), but, please, you are in a bad situation, so this is the time when you must take a risk. Give them money. Please.

Out lander: never seen an epi at all. How does it look?

Jordan said many times, in many ways, that he was the creator of his work and he didn't want anyone messing about with it. It was a definite no on having anyone else finish the series until very near the end of his life, I'm thinking weeks, maybe days. and .... I'm not sure why that changed to ok but it did.

 

That's a legit stance, and he owed no one anything in terms of letting them use his creation to fiddle about. His widow supports his wishes, as she should. It counts for nothing what opening his intellectual property could do for the series or the fans or anyone. it was his call to make.

 

If the rights have been sold, the producers won't much care what she thinks, though. Which is also legit.

 

I think if there's a way to profit big, show gets made. If not, it waits. Not for Harriet's passing, but for circumstances to be right for making enough money to make it worthwhile.

Jordan's last interview is the living proof that he wanted finish WOT alone. These urban legends (he chose BS, he left extensive notes behind, Harriet chose BS because of his eulogy etc) need to die. TOR (Doherty, who was a slave driver according to RJ) wanted its advance back, plus it wanted to catapult BS into the place of Jordan. That's it, end of story.

The whole situation reminds me what happened to Harper Lee. An evil lawyer took advantage of a very sick woman. So far there is no Christopher Tolkien in Jordan's family, but I hope that some day somebody will brave enough to tell the story behind the scenes, plus they will remove Jordan's name from the fanfictions, because RJ had nothing to do with them.

Apropos fanfiction: we don't need them, write your own stories.

We don't know the content of the contracts, but I hope that Harriet did not sell everything.

They could stall the series for a while, but the audience will be smaller each passing year, and there are other series (amongst them BS's books) which will get adapted.

I do not think that we need another thread about that again.

By the way, members of our club told me that new Sanderson promo on reddit (in 'books' or whatever its name is) was a big disaster, because every second poster criticized Sanderson's prose, characters etc. I was told that many of his fans were schocked by this because in the fantasy section they worship him as GOD. (I will peek into the reddit comments tomorrow, I hope the mods will not delete the negative posts by then.)
 

I am a big WOT fan. But to this day I have not read Perrin, Egwene and the wonder girls storylines. I really don't like

to read about girls. Am I a man chauvinist. My first read through I skipped almost everything else and only read

about Rand. I just cant connect to the other characters

You know, coming back after skipping the board for a few weeks/months, and reading posts like this, well, maybe it was a mistake to come back. (Ofc, my posts added basically nothing to the site, but I felt important to share them with others.)

 Learn how to put yourself in someone else's mindset and you'll be a better person. 

Our personality is almost finished by the time when we are 4-5 yo. (And 6-7 years later our personality is chiselled in stone.)

i never skim,i've never even considered doing it,

having said that,perrin was always my biggest problem regarding povs,

i could barely stand him when he was single,when he married his 

degenerate wife,perrin became an unbearable pathetic whiner.

one could skip his entire story arc from the end of the shadow rising

 without missing anything.

to be honest,i would gladly balefire their(the "dynamic duo") entire story

out of the wheel of time world if i could.

Truest words ever spoken.

 that RJ was never going to develop most of their personalities

 

I haven't touched most of the books in years. 

People can change a little, but in real life they don't change at all.

I think I slipped because they both serve the same purpose...To be a calming influence to help a highly stressed man stay centered.

Wow.

Well, Hunter and LP, you are very funny, Especially LP ("I personally really enjoyed the last three books, more than RJ's last 9."). Please, raise the bar.

This would be the bare minimum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrfRMHf62hs
And this would be the inaccessible maximum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLHj-eekdNU


Anyway, I'd like to recommend Ivan Sen as DOP. He is constantly evolving as a filmmaker - his best film, Goldstone, is almost passable -, but his cinematographer skills are good enough even now.

I like his framing very, very much: calm, stable, w i d e (even the interior shots in confined spaces are so loose) etc.

Adam Z, perhaps it is small consolation to know that newer editions have fewer typos.

The reason that TV is reaching a pinnacle is because of the streaming services and DVR’s. They are now able to tell longer much more complex stories than ever now. Movies aren’t even able to tell these kinds of in-depth stories. In the movies you for the most part have to decide if you want character development or action, but you really don’t have time in a 2+ hour movie to do both. Some can pull it off, but most of the time they just pick sides. 

1. Being concise is very important but extremely difficult to accomplish.

2. As a movie guy, what can I say? Watch films from Bunuel, Lumet, Hitchcock, Kieślowski, Herzog, Jancsó (The Red and the White) etcetcetcetc

3.  The pinnacle of the television must be Dekalog by Kieślowski (along with Married... with Children)

 Had RJ lived and made better decisions with the rights we may be watching the Wheel of Time on HBO now instead of Game of Thrones...

Ah, HBO, the tv for virgins and perverts...  but 'everybody' call this quality in these days...

The market being oversaturated, I agree. Personally I'd like to see a moratorium on all new TV shows for five years to give everyone a chance to catch up on what they want to see before unloading new stuff. But in terms of quality, TV is probably the best it's ever been, and that's backed up by the enormous viewing figures and critical reception across the board.

This is true regarding movies too. But, you know, I heard this phrase "TV is probably the best it's ever been" so many times...

The market has absolutely never been as favourable for a Wheel of Time TV show right now. If it doesn't get made now, and if as is possible we see a decline or crash in a few years, the chances of it ever being made disappear.

They need min 2 years to prepare everything to start the shooting. And we hear nothing about the buyer, the producers, the casting process etc

Pete Jackson used a very good technique for cgi crowds and battles that would

work

fine

and cost less than many thousands of extras.

 

there aren't so very many visual effects from the text but that will have to change with medium. media. um idk.

 

how silly or awesome channeling looks could be a

make or break. shouldn't be expensive to represent but it has to be well done and exciting enough to watch that people will want to see it again.

MASSIVE is an 'industrial standard'. They use it in ads too.

That's why I mentioned Warcraft earlier. I thought the effects of the spells were quite good.

PJ's team (Weta) needs someone who constantly use a whip. And they should change their attitude too:

-we need a scene like that

-oh, it's nothing; give us 45 minutes

This is not quality. 

So, there’s only one topic left…

More/better cgi or more extras? What would you like more of? Or cgi extras?  

Extras are important, because 'armies'/'towns' look ridiculous with the same 20-30 people.

 The humans in Randland are really short, have very small noses and even smaller eyebrows. We just don't pick up on it because all descriptions so far have come from the viewpoint of humans

Many people support this theory in our club.

Unfortunately, it's a casualty of my job changing scope. As I've shifted from being a classroom teacher with full summers off, to an Instructional Technology Specialist with summer responsibilities, I've had less "extra" time. And a good chunk of that "extra time" now goes into JordanCon. We're edging up on 1,000 people attending now, so that takes some of my energy. At some point it'll be updated. Either by me, or someone new. I just can't say when. 

Hey, thanks for the update!

OFF

X-Files, Twin Peaks, ST:TNG, The Wire

 

Two things:

1. The population of the USA:

1990     248,709,873

2017     324,310,011 (est)

2. These shows are pure garbage. OK, we were young back then, so we watched (a few) episodes/seasons from them, but I just talked with pals (15-20 p, age 25-45) about X and Twin, and everybody agreed with my statement. And nobody talks about them; more and more people say that films and tv shows are unwatchable, or the market is oversaturated as hell ... I won't go into it.

ON

Dude, you drunk?