CthulhuChild, do not let that Sanderson's fan fictions carry you away.

A few things. (I will not go along with your list.)

Their Sun is not like ours.

Moridin does not want to end everything, he is not Ishy anymore. By the way, there are other ways to destroy 'everything'.

There are limits.

Faroresdragn, Forsaken are nothing special. They have two weapons: they do not trust anybody (that's the bigger one), they are ruthless (that's the smaller one).

While the Sitters are the most powerful AS but 'they do not matter at all', because the heads of the Ajahs have the real power, who are not Sitters (usually). Sometimes outsiders have even more powers than anybody.

On 2/11/2018 at 8:43 PM, CeeCaar said:

Hello.I'm reading the English books

Welcome aboard!; that's a very good choice. (Translations are mutilations.)

Er, where to start?

Few months ago Bud Spencer got a statue in Budapest. (Video1, video2 - eng sub.) It does not look  like him at all, but maybe the fact that his effect on people was acknowledged in a way is more important than its realness. (We have a Columbo/Peter Falk statue too, which is also terrible... )

I cannot size up Robert Jordan's popularity in the USA, but I think he deserves something similar.

What are your thoughts?

1. Unnecessary.

2. Bad timing, 'we' should wait a few years. (Right now confederate monuments are coming down and he was from Charleston, South Carolina...) 

3. I'd love to see it!

4. I have a different opinion

On 2/3/2018 at 9:00 PM, Mrs. Cindy Gill said:

Not a fan of the confederacy and unable to transfer the scene into my feelings about the books. Also looked like a long time killer of a scene that meant nothing good to me so. Ya. 

Irrelevant.

I would totally remove Perrin from the tv series (I think it's a good thing that I have zero control in this matter), but everybody, I mean around me, wants to see a 'similar' scene where 'he becomes a real leader'. (Plus seeing the banner of Manetheren.)

Could you post something from a movie or a tv series which can describe/visualise your feelings about the books?

When I see Nastassja Kinski in In weiter Ferne, so nah! (Faraway, So Close!), I see Nyn. I mean only in that scene, 'I do not like her face'. Maybe I should post this into the casting thread.

(1993 was not a bad year at all: Trois couleurs : Bleu, Trois couleurs : Bleu, Trois couleurs : Bleu, Short Cuts, A Perfect World, In the Name of the Father, JP (falling apart in the last 30 minutes), The Fugitive, Philadelphia (some parts feel really dated now), Untamed Heart,  Schindler's List - read the book, forget the film )

Do you remember the last conversation between Moi and Rand?

There is a poem by Hemingway called The Old Man and the Sea. Read it, and you will get your answers. If you have time you could read For Whom the Bell Tolls, from which RJ heavily drew inspiration. (It's like reading a condensed version of WOT.)

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I know that was supposed to be a listing of what Rand has in his favor, but the fact is that he is walking the razor's edge, barely hanging onto his sanity and growing more paranoid all the time, barely hanging onto putative allies, most of whom would just as soon see him go away in the hope that then everything would be the way it was before he showed up, confronted by enemies on every side. In short he has challenges enough for ten men. I've had people write to say they can't see how Rand is going to untangle all of this and get humanity ready to face the Last Battle. What I say is, what you believe to be true is not always true. What you think is going to happen is not always going to happen. That has been demonstrated time and again in The Wheel of Time. You could call those two statements one of the themes of the books.

 

You didn't think all it would take is for Rand to show up at the Last Battle, did you? According to the Prophecies, the Light has no chance without him, but his presence doesn't ensure victory, just that the Light has a chance. Gotta stiffen your legs and blink the blood out of your eyes. Gotta suck it up and find that punch. Three minutes to go, and you gotta find that knockout. That's your only chance.

 

Robert Jordan

 

How do you define the term, The Last Battle?
What does it mean at all?
Last as ultimate, as final?
Battle? Does it have to be a battle to bring to an end this Age?
What kind of battle? External or internal (Rand's head)? A real battle in his head or just a struggle with himself alone? #solipsism

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“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?”

(Terrible book. Terrible.)

Who is the DO? Why is he a he? The Dragon Reborn is always a male, so it would be more fitting for him to be a 'woman'. (Ofc, he could mean male and female.)
Maybe the Creator was the first appearance of the DO?
Maybe Rand is the Creator and the DO at the same time?

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Ich bin, um es in Räthselform auszudrücken, als mein Vater bereits gestorben, als meine Mutter lebe ich noch und werde alt.

It was much discussed that the DO (who sees everything at once) is way too much humanized. Why is that? Is that a tip from Jordan?

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“Unless the Dragon Reborn breaks free,” Rand said quietly. “To break the Wheel of Time, and remake Time and the world in his own image.” emphasized and changed from the "Dark One" by me

This the key. Or not.

23 hours ago, Mrs. Cindy Gill said:

we don't all want the same things and a lot of us seem to want a verbatim screen play from the books. I don't but people do.

Goldeneyes! Lord Perrin! Goldeneyes!

Your opinion? (The first minute does not fit to Perrin's personality.)

On 1/31/2018 at 10:20 PM, Tyzack said:

 I'll toss Elanye as another useless arc. She does nothing in her time in Andor that adds anything to her character...we see political scheming (other plots), assassinations (other plots), and ... a discussion of pregancy and ruling? Ok, cool, but it's not very relivant.

The series is mostly about characters, is about their reactions to the world, the changes in the world, is about the interactions between them etc.  And while we get 'endless' pages about How to rule a contry, Jordan drops a half sentence (this is the maximum we get) about personal things between  El and Avi and other people. I want to know their thoughts about Rand, Eg etc.

I have no problem with her pregnancy, I like the (in)famous bath scene, but I feel that her plotline was a reaction to the critics that WOT has zero politics. It's the biggest adventure in the world, we don't need to see her groping in the dark about how to secure her reign, no, let's all aboard the adventure train, and ride off into doing something. If the readers want to know more about El's manoeuvres, then they will get an outrigger novel with very detailed what happened to her during this x months.  

21 hours ago, Mrs. Cindy Gill said:

 But I love just about everything AMC does so that's not the dealbreaker.

What do you love about them? I hear nothing but bad things.

Never been a big fan of T, but I'm reading right now The World's Most Treasured Love Poems (edited by Suheil Bushrui - strange selection, strange poems, strange (bad?) translations) and there is this poem on page 77-78:

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Maxamed Xaashi Dhamac ‘Gaarriye’: Passing Cloud

 

Setting sun
You're on the run:
Late afternoon
And gone so soon!
What are you scared of? What's the rush?
Is it the spears of light that shine
Back at you from rock and bush?
Is it the dark creeping up on you
Or bad news from the depths of night
That makes you want to hide your light?
Or is it this girl, more beautiful
Than rain in the season of drought, whose grace
Is greater by far than the subtle pace
Of a passing cloud when it's nudged by the wind?
When you and she exchanged glances just now,
It was you who grew pale, it was you who shrank
From the gleam in her eye and the glow of her smile.
Setting sun
You're on the run:
Late afternoon
And gone so soon!
Have you gone
To warn the moon
That she must face
This greater grace?
The roll of the clouds, the furl of the waves -
A sea of cloud stained purple and red,
The swing of her arms, the swing and the sway
Of her hips as she walks is just like the way
You sway and dip and the end of the day.
Now the clouds turn their backs on you.
They only have eyes for the eyes of the girl:
Eyes that launch love-darts, darts that sink
Into the flanks of the clouds and draw
Droplets of blood that stain the sky.
Setting sun
You're on the run:
Late afternoon
And gone so soon…
These are the lines
That seemed to fall
To hand when first
I saw the girl.
Now this is what
I most recall:
The way she reached up to gather fruit
Believing herself to be alone
Until she saw me there, wide-eyed,
As the wind read my mind and sent a gust
To part her dress and lay her breast
Bare for the space of an indrawn breath.
Ah, yes, I remember that…and the way
She caught at the cloth and fastened it,
Turning her face from mine, her eyes
Lowered, as if to say: No man
Has seen before what you saw today.

translator: David Harsent

Not a bad poem!

Now, adapting the last lines (of course, the whole poem can match to Morgase) onto M+T, I can fancy a situation, where Tallanvor sees into Morgase's soul, seeing something which was hidden so deep that "No man has seen before what you saw today", and he became so besotted with her.that he could not leave her side.

Or is he just a creep who can't take no for an answer, and will continue to persist after clear rejection has been made because he thinks that she will eventually give in? @ijustwanthatbody

I did not read the fan fictions, so I did not understand your post at first, but this is how I imagine their (R + M) reunion in my head.

I think using our own fantasy/imagination is the best thing, so, if you are not satisfied with their fate, then make your own ending.

I hope that you will post more.

On 1/30/2018 at 9:16 AM, Orderofolde said:

Then we have Perrin's observation of Faille comparing her to his age in TDR, yet later she becomes younger and younger until Perrin is almost robbing the cradle with her. 

On 1/29/2018 at 10:24 AM, wotfan4472 said:

An interesting question szilard about the False Dragons. I think the question calls for a separate thread. I have an idea.

I'd like to hear about it!

On 1/29/2018 at 2:01 PM, Occams whiskey bottle said:

With all the issues that this series has had with getting developed what are the chances that we get the quality and story that we all want? 

Zero. (It looks like the WOT-curse is still alive.)

The owner of the rights chose a little fish (Sony), who will team up with an even smaller fish (probably AMC), then they chose a not too talented showrunner.

They will not pump money into the first season, and without money, adapting WOT to the small screen is meaningless.

But the most important thing is the new readers. Many people will pick up the books, hopefully, so, in the long run we will lose nothing.

5 hours ago, jack of shadows said:

and yet,according to you,poor perrin is second only to rand in words count LOL.

Yes, there are strage things in WOT.

I can/do/will not deny that Perrin is the second/third most popular character  Actually, I think, there was a period when he was de facto the fan favourite.

It just pains me what Jordan did to him.

I think the problem lies elsewhere.

Only Rand (and Mat) can carry his storylines own his own. Perrin is not capable of this. Eg is a special case, because her supporting cast is exceptionally strong; the twins (Nyn and EL), when they are separated from each other, cannot reach their potential anymore. (Reducing Nyn to nothing isn't useful at all, but her storyline ends in LOC, so lo and behold, we have another problem)

And readers know that his storyline is rather meaningless and boring (there are great moments in his chapters - very sparsely, I should add), but putting together a cast like this: Perrin, Faile, Berelain, Morgase, Lini, Tallanvor etc. is the surest way to ruin a plotline. Not to mention that Jordan constantly puts phone books before us: names, names, names - limited space, too many characters, how do you paint them in different colours?

You could say, and you did say, that give them more pages, and they can achieve their full potential, but there's a kickback. Simply and solely, there is no coming back from assembling so many bland people into one group. Jordan tries to give us a little flavour (Wos, AS etc) but it's worth as much as a kiss to a dead person.

(The heroic moments are taken away by Rand, the funny/interesting things by Mat, so poor Perrin was left with monotonous/boring everyday life.)

Last week I saw that Mashiara posted something, and it got me thinking.

DM is getting more and more traffic minute by minute (according to alexa.com, it would be great the get a little real info from DM itself), but it seems to me that there are 20 half active 'posters' (they click on topics regularly), and there are 5-6 active posters who try to 'maintain' a certain flow.

Back to Mashiara: we had never agreed on anything (on any board we met), as far as I remember, but it would be great if if we could 'clash' again, I mean, I'm sure that she (and others too) sees many things different now regarding the books, the characters etc.  But she does not post anything to the General Discussion...

New posters: they come and go talking of Michelangelo, mostly they just pop in for a minute

It is just sad

I didnt' mean it that way.

If Eg's messages are upper case texts, then who is dreamer in the earlier cases? Does the DO, or Rand (why not?) dream about himself as 'other people'? 
 

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“Unless the Dark One Dragon Reborn breaks free,” Rand said quietly. “To break the Wheel of Time, and remake Time and the world in his own image.”

 

On 2018. január 26. at 10:04 PM, Sabio said:

Some seem a bit odd for instance having a female council and  a council for men like in the Two Rivers, seems like a poor attempt to show both sexes are equal and have power.

Or maybe he just based this on real history.

solarz, I promised you a reply but my browser just ate my post (DON'T PANIC! You haven't lost anything ), and I hate re-typing meaningless posts, so you have to to fall back upon with these short remarks.

On 2018. január 26. at 9:40 PM, solarz said:

However, if that was really the case, why did he make men stronger, not only physically but also in the Power?

RJ: "Men can be much stronger than women in the pure quantity of the Power that they can channel, but on a practical level, women are much more deft in their weaving and that means the strongest possible woman can do just about anything that the strongest possible man could, and to the same degree."

On 2018. január 26. at 9:40 PM, solarz said:

If we look at Rand's visions, we see that shortly after the breaking, men had the leadership role. Women were largely powerless, prey to hostile men and depending on their own men to protect or rescue them. As we progress through the visions, we see that when the Jenn Aiel called the clans to Rhuidean, it was the Wise Ones who relayed the messages through Dreaming. This provides a good explanation for how Aiel Wise Ones attained their position of power: the ability to communicate through Dreams, or to find new sites of water, would give them great amount of influence. So far that we can see, there are no male Dreamers, even though Dreaming is not explicitly tied to Channeling.

Interesting cocnclusion... (Dreaming and dreamwalking are totally different things.)

The bulk of your post shows that you totally misunderstand Jordan's vision/thoughts, but you have every right to interpret the novels on your ground. But maybe that's a good thing, we need different thoughts, different povs.

Finally, a quick reply regarding these words.

On 2018. január 26. at 9:40 PM, solarz said:

False Dragons, especially those who could channel, had shaken Randland's history. From Raolin Darksbane to Logaine Ablar, False Dragons were the ultimate manifestations of male power. They were feared and hated after death, even though they attracted legions of followers in life.

I'd really like to see a longer post on that, because I think people (in the the novels) exaggerate their deeds ("Men who shook the pillars of heaven and rocked the world on its foundations." Yeah, sure.), their impact. It looks like that 'somebody' helped to create false Dragons from time to time just to maintain the dominance of the WT. Just my 2c.

M’illumino
D’immenso.

WOT is complex but not that complex. I mean rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan covered up to 90-92% of WOT ideas/theories, and later raswrj was used as a basis of Wotmania and Theoryland (other sites, like DM, were never serious regarding serious theorizing - sorry, Jason - I'm talking about digging up every little detail, combing through everything with the finest magnifying glass (what a nice mixed metaphor)). We had exceptionally good theorizers (I miss them so much every day...), and I greatly doubt that their output had not covered everything. (Sometimes RJ had to improvise on the fly during interviews, because even he did not know the answers for everything.)

Last, but not least, we talk about Brandon Sanderson. All of his hinting/tipping, as far as I know, turned out to be jokes. He loves the spotlight, he's so full of himself - remember, when he told us "hahaha, I was the first to read Jordan's notes, I was the first, hahaha" for Rand's sake, man, mature a little bit, and now he's still the same. He's hopeless.

And answering to your question: "What did we miss?" Nothing. It's just the abbreviation of his name...

solarz, I disagree with pretty much everything you wrote but I will reply only on next week.

Here's a few quotes for you and OP.

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For instance, I've been accused by somer people of ignoring the feminist struggle. Well, there is no feminist struggle in this world, because there is no need for one. No one says a woman can't do this because she is a woman. A woman wants to be a blacksmith, she can learn to be a blacksmith, and she becomes a blacksmith, or a merchant or a wagondriver, or a worker on the docks, or wherever else. All of that took place, took place a long time ago. And they're very good at it. That sets the whole reasons why this should come about. Three thousand years ago the world was destroyed, by men. There is one group that has survived for that three thousand years, one organization that has managed to stick together for three thousand years, and have a great influence on history, and that is a group of women.

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On the large scale, the gender relationships in the Wheel grew from the very beginnings of the books, really.  I recall seeing a paperback book back in the 70s, a fantasy novel about a young woman who wasn’t allowed to become a magician of whatever sort it was because she was a woman.  The notion struck me as interesting, since it was the first fantasy novel with that theme that I had ever seen, but what really stuck with me was this.  That novel was a simple reflection of the then-current mundane world, but what about if it were men who were not allowed to become whatever it was?  Now that would be an interesting twist, and unexpected.  Why would that be, and how could it be enforced?  As Harriet has often pointed out, many of the world’s gender inequalities stem from superior male upper body strength.  (To which I usually say, “Oh, dear!  Isn’t that awful and unfair!”  While pulling off my shirt and flexing my biceps, to be sure,)  From that genesis grew the division of the One Power into a male and a female half with the male half tainted, giving a reason why men not only would not be allowed to become Aes Sedai, as they were not then called, but must not be allowed even to channel, again as it was not then called.  From that, and from the history that I was even then beginning to put together for this world, though I didn’t realize it then, came the result of 3000+ plus years when men who can wield the ultimate power, the One Power, are to be feared and hated above all things, when the only safety from such men comes from the one stable center of political, and other, power for those 3000+ years, a female center of power.  The view I then had was a world with a sort of gender equality.  Not the matriarchy that some envision  — Far Madding is the only true matriarchy in the lot — but gender equality as it might work out given various things that seem to be hard-wired into male and female brains.  The result is what you see.

Now in most of these societies — Far Madding is the obvious exception — I did not and do not view them as matriarchal.  I attempted to design societies that were as near gender balanced as to rights, responsibilities and power as I could manage.  It doesn’t all work perfectly.  People have bellybuttons.  If you want to see someone who always behaves logically, never tells small lies or conceals the truth in order to put the best face for themselves on events, and never, ever tries to take advantage of any situation whatsoever, then look for somebody without a bellybutton.  The real surprise to me was that while I was designing these gender balanced societies, people were seeing matriarchies.

 

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there are plenty of reasons for men and women to have a certain degree of distrust, though the fact that many Aes Sedai have Warders and good relationships with them shows that it isn’t all mistrust.  How much trust do most men and women have for the opposite gender here and now?  I trust Harriet with my life, but look at how most people are.  Look at most women’s views of men, and most men’s views of women.  There is a lot of distrust right there.  As for the Forsaken, they don’t trust anybody.  Gender doesn’t enter into it.

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the Healing of stilling must be done by the other gender to be fully effective.  A woman Healing a woman or a man Healing a man results in less than full restoration.  It all ties into that theme I keep harping on.  Men and women have to work together to be their most effective.  And while the weave used by Flinn for Healing is not exactly that used by Nynaeve, either would use the same weave on a man or a woman.

I'm bringing up an old topic, but who knows, fresh eyes will see fresh things...

I'm lazy, so I will not list all the CAPS text, but I think this is more than enough to start a discussion.

We all know that RJ uses the Caps Lock key with a reason, for example Wizard of Oz (DO, who is maybe not the real DO, I suspect that he's just an impostor - "here only a fool would even appear ready to channel" - the real DO has nothing to fear from channeling) always uses CAPS, so when Eg (?) sends messages in her dream this is the result:

NYNAEVE, THIS IS EGWENE. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES ARE YOU TO RETURN UNTIL YOU FIND THE BOWL, NOT UNTIL I CAN SETTLE A PROBLEM WITH AREINA AND NICOLA. THEY KNOW YOU WERE PRETENDING. I WILL EXPLAIN MORE WHEN I SEE YOU NEXT IN THE LITTLE TOWER. BE CAREFUL. MOGHEDIEN HAS ESCAPED.

AMYS, THIS IS EGWENE. I MUST SPEAK WITH YOU.
(We will come, a voice murmured to her. Amys’ voice.)

(ACOS, Chapter 10, Unseen Eyes)

IT IS NOT HERE.
I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL.
NOT HERE.
(TEOTW, Chapter 51, Against the Shadow, Rand's POV (?))

DEMANDRED
DEMANDRED. HOW FARES THIS WORLD?
(LOC, Prologue, Demandred's POV (?))

How do you interpret the using of CAPS texts(, not their meaning)?

2 hours ago, solarz said:

The real question is, why does it matter?

The time travel theory was extremely popular.

Our book club took umbrage at me forgetting this theory (they posted it 4-5 times on DM at least, not to mention others on different boards). Still, this does not diminish Sabio's independent idea, and I'm grateful that this theory resurfaced again via jack of shadows.

On those bosoms: read carefully! Which POV uses that word? And how many times? Use a word finder, and you will be suprised!

on "said" I disagree

"the flirtation scenes were too cutesy-pie for me" - normal people behaves this way 

On 2018. január 16. at 12:11 AM, AsaroVincent said:

I have not read the BS volumes yet so I can't comment on them (I know, I know...). I'm hoping to get to them this year. I read EotW in 1990, never followed up, then (starting in 2013, I think) read New Spring through Knife of Dreams, listened to the audio-books, re-read them with the Companion

Tell us more!

It was a failed experiment, Jordan admitted too. (There are many good parts in it, of course.)