I've looked through some of the recent pages but need to start from start of D2 and read again cause too many looks and I'm pretty sure ive missed stuff. And Lenlo is now Zander? Awesome...

And now i have to go to work. Boooooo!!!!!!!

I understand how it could be innocent, but the particular players and my opinions on them caused it to strike a chord.

My take is Tigraine is sketchy here. I think I showed previously why I thought Rand was reasonable at EoD. I will get to her in due time. I'm concentrating on my main theory. Feel free to look into that. If my theory falls apart I'll consider yours. My opinion without looking is that Tigraine and Ed have 3p equity. Just laying low in order to take the shots at night. As the game goes on they odds move into the 3p favor.

Some. But I can see ways for him to be mafia and you to be town. He could have easily chosen you and been in the same situation if you are town. ( when he tied the trains on D1)

There were only 5 people online when it happened. So it's only 1 in 3 that the cop is even there. There was only minutes till DL. So the cop needs to recognise, decide if to respond, how to respond in that short of time knowing that if they do out themselves, THEY ARE DEAD I. NIGHT BECAUSE OF THE STRONGMAN. So yes, I can see how that could happen. Say Dice is VT ( or something else), he knows he's going down. Townies fight now, none.of the oh well crud. This game is full of experienced players. He hopes they understand the benefits. It's sketchy, so it's possible that the mafia doesn't believe and just RBs him just in case and shoots wherever. The kill fails for some reason. Town is ahead. Or, he might just be the cop and mafia still didn't believe. Shot elsewhere and the kill failed for reasons. I don't.know, but the other possibilities exist and are valid.

VOTE : VERB I think his teammates are: Rand (like 80%) and either Heavy or Key based on interactions and how they treat each other. To be fair this is mostly from Verb and Rand so

This post. I was catching up this morning and meant to.go.back to it but got distracted. GF? Why just gf to claim cop? Both you and Rand are on about this. I doubt the real cop (if it isn't Dice) views Dice possibly for this reason. I would think they view someone else, looking for mafia. The town fake claiming cop could be a genius level play, especially since no one died last night. I'm sure you can see how. Where did I say people voted Marsh with bad reasoning? I said I thought you voted Dice with bad reasoning. Heck, even you said you voted Dice with "bad" and "meh" reasoning. Then threw in competing trains, while ignoring Heavy. You claim here that he was a town lean. But really haven't shown why. Yeah, you were watching a show. You couldn't be monitoring the thread on your phone while doing that? You didn't announce you were back with great episode. You jumped in and answered Dice. I'm not buying it. My prerogative. i already explained this to Rand. You could.have but you would have been most likely lynched because of it. Your not confident on the slot? It sounds very wishy washy. Very not wanting to take a real stand. Very fake. Again with the GF angle? Maybe it's just me but I don't see why a cop would try to view Dice in these circumstances. You didn't sound committed to believing he was mafia. You sound very tentative in your stances, like you don't wanna be held to anything. Your town lean on Key, is it stronger than the one on Heavy? Does it bother you that your big town read, the one you took a stand on, the one now confirmed town, had both of them as mafia?

I don't generally do tone. I'm pretty oblivious to hinting and stuffs. I blame my aspie traits. If your town, I'll hopefully get there. I don't see it presently. Might be a me thing. Who knows?

If you're not lying then the burden is on you to prove it. You are again throwing out old out dated meta hoping people will just go yeah that used to happen. Pretty sure any defending that occurred was on her end and primarily about general play not anything specific to this game. If you want to keep spewing that rubbish, show some proof. Also, mixing it up doesn't cut it here. You made a specific accusation at me. Waving it off as oopsie is not enough. So it only counts if you need to pull something out of a donkey? Either it's a tell or it isn't imo. Or was it just mafia Verb that does that? Might be good to know. Slightly weird that Heavy mentioned it before you, but that's a different thought. Finally, imo you used bad reasoning in your vote on dice. You seemed to even agree when you replied to him. You said one reason was "bad", one reason was "meh" and threw in competing trains while ignoring Heavy who you had as a "town.lean" without much reasoning. Have you ever released a real reads list with reasoning? Point it out if you have. Put one out if you haven't.

I went back to do DPRs requested reading. I'm not sure which conversation he was talking about. I'm guessing Nyn and Dice??? I also saw this and something from Verb that I had forgotten about. So thanks pirate. Anyways something about Rands read list struck me as odd. There were two instances where he joined two players together. Exactly two. He joined Ithi and Key, then Verb and Me. I don't like this. Especially since I'm suspicious of Verb. I don't wanna be grouped with him. It always feels like a way mafia will put teammates with townies to link them in people's minds. I have been a bit suspicious of Key so I find it odd that only two people I have some suspicion on are linked in this manner on his list. It could be innocent but it pings.

Ugh. I agreed with Ed?? Now I'm disappointed with myself.

You lack vision. Just because you cant see it, doesn't mean it cant be. People play hunches on NAs all the time. The best players frequently don't follow the playbook. I said it. I don't think that acknowledging all options is muddying the waters. I stated the possibility but essentially dismissed it immediately. The doc not covering Dice is not so clear. Maybe the doc doesn't believe Dice or didn't think they could stop the Strongman. Maybe the mafia flat out didn't believe him, because if thats the case then they wouldn't have shot at him. You are sounding like salty mafia your kill didn't go through for some reason you dont understand. Your conclusion that Dice is mafia faking cop means there is a real Cop out there probably with some sort of a result as it would be blind luck for mafia to have blocked them. This whole post by you is one big steaming pile of WIFOM. I had high hopes and now I’m crushed.

Good catch noticing what I was talking about. However, he did use that phrase in the game he was vig and town as well so it isn't just a thing he does as mafia. That he ignored it apparently is troubling to me. When I have too many mafia in my head I concentrate on one and see where that goes. If Tigraine is sketchy to you see if you can sort it out. See where it goes. If it's nothing pick someone else that bugs you. You might make it into my town yet.

Sorry to hear that. Positive vibes to aid your dad in healing. Take care and don't worry about the game. It will still be here.

This bit of stuff? To be honest there isn't much there. I can understand you can't wrap your head around him. I'm not sure of his alignment myself. I don't see much still but I understand?? I must say I still don't like the willingness to lynch for lols. That's just me though.

This was what I tried to quote. Is it recent?

From yesterday? Did you just do one? I would have to go check if it isn't recent.

I must say I disagree with your assessment. Imo if the mafia truly believe you they kill you with their Strongman. This eliminates all future chance of them getting peeked and allows them to use their RB to attempt to block the doc. The doc can't self protect so they don't need the Strongman for that. The random shot getting blocked in some way is a possibility. I don't really think it matters too.much as right now we can't know how it happened. Last thing about resolving a potential cc is that if it involves a red peek, the peek gets lynched first. Unless it's lylo then it a guessing game.

I hope not cause...

I forgot about the 3p having a BPV. That is certainly an option to having no death. Unfortunately, neither the mafia nor the 3p is going to tell us if this is what happened. Doc stopping the kill is the immediate thought so *shrug* about speculation. I kinda disagree with your take on the Marsh train. When many people went to sleep it was 3-3 between Dice ( the claimed cop) and Ironeyes ( now confirmed town). I would say that mafia were pretty safe in thinking a townie was going down. (I'm assuming for this Dice is town) they don't care which one as long as their team survive the day. I think we need to pay attention to the people that didn't do much ( Ed and Tigraine, Len to lesser extent) and the people that were there at EoD. For this exercise that means DPR, Rand, and Verb. My take is that mafia would want to at least check to see what was happening to ensure everthing continued in a way they stayed safe. I don't suppose it hurts to look at it both ways though.

Probably, that doesn't mean they are not out to get you, lol. I'm only one person. The game as a whole decided to ignore my idea. It isn't effective if only I do it. Last game I beat the drum to try to get townies to do things and it got me killed, twice. As to DPR's opinion I don't know, I don't care. NO ONE WAS INTERESTED, so I dropped it. You can lead a town to water but you can't make them think. We can't solve Dice until he either dies, or the real Cop (if it's not him) either dies or cc's him. We aren't going to run him up again. Hes still the un cc'd cop. So it's wasted effort presently. There are at least 3 other non town entities to find. I am using my time to try to locate them and perhaps in so doing we will get additional information regarding Dice. The longer the game goes without a cc, the more likely Dice IS the cop. My opinion is now is not the time to settle the Dice issue. Like I said to Rand, you do you. Are you so sure Verb is town? I'm certainly not. He's used bad logic imo. He flat out lied about me defending ithi excessively. He has apparently ignored several people making one of his supposed mafia tells, or at least hasn't taken notice of them. I'm not sure DPR is town either. So to think I'm in any way tag teaming with him is ludicrous. What pro Dice comments? I was voting him when I went to sleep. He remains the UN CC'D COP at this time and as such is off the table for me. I am NOT treating him as cleared and I will still take note and comment if he does anything else I consider sketchy. I just will not be voting him or even consider voting him until more information comes along. Show your work if you want to come at.me. maybe even give us where you stand right now. If you've posted them recently, let me know that and I will find them.

It could also mean they didn't fully believe Dice's claim so hedged their bet. RB'd to ensure he couldn't get a result if he is cop, and a regular shot in case doc doesn't protect due to not having a better option. Or they could have targeted someone else entirely and got doc'd or shot at the hider. Either way until someone comes forward to cc Dice, he's off the table and discussing his is a waste of time imo.

My take is the first one is a slip. His other post with all the double negatives and stuff was his attempt at not being direct about his result. I'm not sure why he was worried, Darthe clearly doesn't really care about that stuff. I blame Zander. Lololololol

That would be a calculated decision on your part as mafia. No way it doesn't look bad for you to be in thread actively communicating with a player that claims cop, gets lynched, flips cop. You could try to wiggle but I seriously doubt you live to see tonight. As far as your actions making you most likely mafia, imo they don't in a vacuum, but they don't clearly make you town either. We definitely need more involvement from Ed.