Egwene may not have had friends her own age who hung around her as much, but she had plenty of more mature people. She had Leanne as Siuan, the Wise Ones, etc.

I don't think Egwene is friends with the Wise Ones or Siuan.  She has very little interaction with the Wise Ones post tFoH, her only real interaction being when she tries to arrange an agreement between the White Tower, the Wise Ones, and the Windfinders, and in this situation they don't behave as friends.

 

As to Siuan, she sees Siuan as a mentor, but not a friend.  The way she speaks to Siuan following her rescue (whether you think she was right or wrong to dress her down so severely in public) is not the way anyone speaks to a friend.  Especially as there is no apology in private afterwards.

 

Ummm... Egwene has tons of interactions with the WO after she leaves them, including one scene where she says she thinks that approaching Amys is like approaching her mother.

Similarly, there have been statements from both Egwene and Siuan where they state that while they had a mentor-student relationship, and a leader-advisor one, they also felt friendship for each other.

As for how Egwene reacted to Siuan's obvious disobedience to an explicitly given order, that is precisely one point where she couldn't treat Siuan as a friend. How does that say anything about their general relationship?

Egwene may not have had friends her own age who hung around her as much, but she had plenty of more mature people. She had Leanne as Siuan, the Wise Ones, etc. Beyond that, though, she did end up with a job where she can't be friend's first. That would be doing the job badly, which would mean losing the respect of those very people whose friendship she values. 

So no, I don't really think she was friendless. Just not someone who visibly needed the help of her friends to deal with the changes that power brings. She was just better at learning from her teachers, which freed her friends to deal with the real problem-case: Rand.

Question: If the ability to channel is soul tied, then presumably if you are burnt out, you would never be reborn with the ability to channel? If so, Egwene will never have the ability to channel again in any incarnation.

The point is moot anyway. Egwene did not burn out. She died before that could happen, same as LTT.

I hold the view that heroes of the horn can't channel.

 

As cool as the idea that they could appear in the world with all their past lives knowledge of weaves from different ages (and within ages) (and that sounds like Avatar the Last Airbender), we have no evidence that anyone who can channel is tied to the horn. We do not know if the Dragon is/was dead, that the horn can summon him as well.

 

I can't see dead channellers being any greater than living channellers (baring all the knowledge of past lives). But dead archers seem to be greater than living archers for eg.

Maria, in a recent Q&A, confirmed that channelers can indeed be Heroes. Which makes sense, since Rand is one too. 

The real interesting question is how Heroes who're Dreamers/Dreamwalkers are different. We saw that Birgette, while not sucking at TAR as a Hero, was no match for Moghedien. But what happens when a Hero is a Dreamwalker? Could they, perhaps, do crazy things like step out of the Pattern at a place where TAR meets the real world? Could they, perhaps, do this and still manage to avoid being detected by the DO? That is certainly one way to explain Rand's conversation with Egwene in SG.

And if Egwene was the "old Aiel woman", it fits other foreshadowing linking her to Rand's "death". If she gave him encouragement and support in his body-swap, she can be said to have been involved in his death, just as was Foreshadowed in her Accepted Test, but with completely different interpretations. 

I'm beginning to wonder if Nakomi wasn't just created to throw us off this trail? After all, if RJ wrote that scene of Rand exiting SG, he wrote that old woman in. And if she's meant to be Egwene, then it makes perfect sense for Brandon to say that he won't comment on who killed Egwene, because she did come back, and that was RJ, but this wasn't obvious, and that was due to the way he wrote her death, and left it ambiguous whether she was actually outside the Pattern, talking to Rand. 

Her coming back this way for a brief time also nicely parallels Rand's end, to an extent, because she came back in a body no one could recognize. 

I know this is a pretty whacky theory. But it ties in a lot of things without us needing to come up with out-of-the-book mechanisms.

Thoughts?

I had this whackadoodle thought the other night about how the phantasm dressed in aiel clothes at the end, which alot of folks including myself believe to be Nakomi, is actually the form of Egwene a la hero of the horn...Which would then mean she would have to be one, or else have at that point in time become one.

 

It all goes downhill from there, and I didn't bother to check the timing of death vs. blowing of the horn, but hey, I did say it was whackadoodle, and it's more fun to think about it if you gloss over the terrible execution of including such a character in the manner of which we see, when Rand's making his way out of the Pit and such.

Yeah, I thought the same, with the argument being that she disguised herself because she didn't want to shock Rand into his senses and thereby interfere with his transfer to Moridin's body.

The only problem is, we've seen Nakomi before, and it defies reason for two old Aiel women with mysterious powers to appear. And while I had whacko ideas about the Nakomi Aviendha meets being Egwene too, as a side effect of her weave (it stabilizes the Pattern, and the Aiel's place in the Dragon's Peace does the same, I think). The argument basically was that just as Balefire kind of "travels back in time" and causes chaos by killing the target too early, the Flame of Tar Valon allows the person using the weave to Travel back and change certain things so the Pattern gets stronger.

But that was all shot to hell when Brandon said Nakomi was not anyone we've seen before. That shoots down Verin, and Egwene as well.

ETA: As for time of death vs. the blowing of the Horn, she died before the Horn was blown. As for what she was doing when the Horn was blown at Merrilor, the answer is simple: she shot straight off to talk to Rand and help him come to grips with her death, just as Noal and Birgette shot straight off to those who needed them most.

 

 

 

Not saying it was Brandon's call as we truly don't know but death isn't the only reason Cads could have become Amyrlin. There are a number of other scenarios like burning out etc.

 

That's what I was thinking. A burned out, but alive-yet-no-longer-Amyrlin Egwene would be a gr8 parallel to Rand. On the other hand, a dead Egwene is a perfect parallel to Lews Therin and Eldrene as well. I think RJ left it open as to which option to pick, and Brandon picked the death.

Don't Perrin and Nynaeve talk about Egwene's death in Perrin's POV in the epligoue (which was written by RJ)?

 

 

With regards to Vora's Sa'angreal lack of buffer, I have always found characters commenting about it being "perhaps the most powerful" always a bit odd. Perhaps there can be certain situations where another Sa'angreal can be more powerful than another, or their relative strength granted differ from person to person, but I did not try to work out any. But if it was intended to be a foreshadowing by RJ, it was somewhat vague. And if it was intended to be read as a foreshadowing, then it implies there is another Sa'angreal of around Vora's Sa'angreal's strength.

I took it to mean that the it was the most powerful sa'angreal the AS had come across, and they just didn't know if there were any in existence which were more powerful.

In tDR:

 

"Egwene had never seen the wand before, but she recognized it from a lecture Anaiya had given the novices. One of the few sa’angreal, and perhaps the most powerful, that the Tower possessed."

 

In tGS, I think Egwene commented it was "one of the most powerful" - instead of "the most powerful." - Which was a fair continuity on that line of thought she had in tDR. Though, I am pretty sure Siuan subsequently commented it was the strongest in tGS

 

Anyway it has always struck me as odd.

 

Did Anaiya suggest that it -might- be the most powerful the Tower possessed in the novice lectures?

Or was it the only Sa'angreal ever mentioned in the lectures and so Egwene inferred it was the most powerful?

 

If it was former, then why the ambiguity on the relative strength the Sa'angreals the WT possessed. It also implies at least 1 other Sa'angreal of close strength the WT possessed (not that it matters since I cannot imagine Vora Sa'angreal being anywhere in the upper echelons of Sa'angreal) - This could imply the other Sa'angreal(s) of close strength has a buffer, and the lack of buffer gives the ambiguity. Again, I would say that even if it was even intended to be a hint Vora's Sa'angreal had no buffer (and I am doubtful), it was a very very thin hint barely worth noting.

If the latter, then Egwene made a wild (and lucky ) stab in the dark that Siuan confirmed - and possibly others confirmed it. But I cannot remember.

I think what is likely the case is that it hadn't been tested out to its upper limits. The Aes Sedai seem to have a fear of too much saidar, and Vora's sa'angreal is probably overkill for most situations. There might be other sa'angreal that come close, but are weaker by a significant margin in truth, except no one found out because they never tested the limits of the white fluted wand. 

What is certain is that using it to its maximum extend short of overdrawing, Egwene was able to exactly match Taim with Sakarnen. And since Sakarnen is rated by the men to be in Callandor range, that is where we must place Vora's wand. 

Not saying it was Brandon's call as we truly don't know but death isn't the only reason Cads could have become Amyrlin. There are a number of other scenarios like burning out etc.

That's what I was thinking. A burned out, but alive-yet-no-longer-Amyrlin Egwene would be a gr8 parallel to Rand. On the other hand, a dead Egwene is a perfect parallel to Lews Therin and Eldrene as well. I think RJ left it open as to which option to pick, and Brandon picked the death.

I am wondering, in the end can we say the Gawyn killed Egwene? Without him dying pointlessly Egwene wouldn't draw as much as she did. Demandred was dead anyway so arguably the army of Light doesn't really need her to wipe out of enemy channelers in one strike. Surely Logain with a circle or maybe with Taim's sa'angreal and wipe them out easily?

Egwene drew more than she could handle because she was evenly matched with Taim, and she needed to kill him before he destabilized the Pattern further. She didn't do it accidentally. It was a calculated decision. Once she'd finished him, she drew on even more of the OP because she knew she had to make an absolutely gigantic weave to overcome the effects of hours of excessive Balefire use. I doubt she'd have done any different if Gawyn were alive.

@Master Ablar:

How else do you suggest she should have beaten Taim? I doubt she could have formed a circle on the spot or anything.

If egwene's death was RJs sanderclown would have no hesitation in saying so. The fact that he's dillydallying around the issue and leaving up in the air is his way of shirking from answering the question truthfully. He cant lie since there are other people with access to Rj's notes.

 

Anyways i am glad my hunches proved right from the start.

He could also be saying that to keep up some amount of suspense. 

Actually, it is much more likely that RJ planned Egwene's death.  Brandon's comment was only that most of the deaths were RJ, he had been able to decide a few.  We know for a fact that RJ wrote the epilogue (apart from Cadsuane's POV), and is this Rand refers to Cadsuane being cornered (which couldn't be the case if Egwene was going to be alive).

Brandon has also said that Cadsuane's becoming Amyrlin was specifically in RJ's notes, but he doesn't know how she'll deal with it, since she was apparently planning to remove the Oaths and retire into the Kin.

What could be possible is that Egwene's death wasn't final, and that she too comes back, but refuses to be Amyrlin. Brandon has said that RJ had left several details up in the air, giving him a choice of which path to follow. This might be one of them. The actual death itself fits too well, both with foreshadowing, and the mountain (!!!) of LTT and Rand parallels, for me to believe Brandon fabricated it whole cloth. 

So sanderclown confirmed what we all knew. He killed egwene and gawyn. I knew it. And it's a big egg on those who claimed egwene's death was RJ.

 

It just didnt make any sense. when you have went through pages and pages of character development and yet be the sole death amongst the emond's fielders then it's time to be suspcious.

 

The lack of reaction from the characters to egwene's death and cadusuane bit in the epilogue was just the confirmation to the nth degree

He confirmed no such thing. Get a grip.

I don't particularly think she deserved to die nor did I want her to, but practically speaking, it may actually have been better for her to die in the long run. 

 

Number one reason because of the Seanchan and her hatred of them, and the conversation she had with Tuon. 

 

She didn't do anything wrong morally, but that conflict and rivalry may well have lead to war - and the breaking of the Dragon's Peace, which would undermine everything Rand had fought for. 

 

Don't get me wrong here, I think Egwene wouldn't break the Dragon's Peace and eventually master her hatred of the Seanchan, but that is not certain - she may well have done so. Tuon is another matter also, she has already shown she has considered breaking the Dragon's Peace. 

 

Their conversation was very close to what may have happened - and may have sparked another version of Aviendha's vision. I won't even go into who would win if Seanchan decided to conquer - nobody will ever agree - but the breaking of the Dragon's Peace and the possibility of all channelers being collared is a threat big enough - if a prolonged war wasn't bad enough.

 

"I will break you myself," Fortuona said softly. "Someday, your people will turn you over to me. You will forget yourself, and your arrogance will lead you to our borders. I will be waiting."

 

"I plan to live centuries," Egwene hissed. "I will watch your empire crumble, Fortuona. I will watch it with joy." 

 

 

If the two of them lived as - arguably - the two most powerful women on the continent, both having vowed to see the other fall - it would have been impossible to avoid war. 

 

The unfortunate truth of the matter is, it couldn't be Tuon. Tuon has already taken steps towards a more tolerant Seanchan society. She is willing - if barely - to abide the Dragon's Peace and listen to Mat and Setalle. Another Empress or Emperor at that point - while the Empire has not yet been changed - would most likely have discarded the Dragon's Peace and try to collar every channeler within an hour of the Last Battle's end. 

 

Which makes Egwene's death even more important - Tuon no longer has to worry about the meeting with Egwene and the consequences with the Blood - oaths and words spoken are important in Seanchan, she might have went to war simply because she had to keep her word to save losing face, they are crazy like that. 

 

Egwene can be remembered even by Tuon with respect - having died a hero and gaining much honour. (Tuon gives her credit and honour for fighting the Shadow, surely Egwene's actions earned her respect in Tuon's eyes)

 

Obviously, that doesn't mean she deserved to die either. Of course I would much rather she had lived. 

 

But her sacrifice was not a vain one. Her death solved many more problems than an extended life could have done. 

I agree with most of the reasoning here, but I think it has one major flaw. The belief that the Dragon's Peace is something that needs to be saved at all cost.

Frankly, the more I read Aviendha's scenes and the Aiel's reactions to her revelations, the less I believe it makes any sense. Since when have the Aiel been the type to let threat of destruction stop them from doing what is right? Isn't that deeply against Ji'e'toh? Its an act of cowardice that is totally incompatible with the Aiel worldview. It makes a lot of pragmatic sense, but I don't see it as fitting the Aiel.

As for Egwene, I think you're right. She probably wouldn't have declared war, she's too clever not to note the difficulties that would create, and nor can she break her word without choking and dying. But with Egeanin at her side, and the former sul'dam, and the former damane, she'd have waged a political battle, I'm certain. Tuon lost control and showed Egwene how much of a weakness the truth about sul'dam was, for her. Egwene would certainly have played that, and if Siuan have lived too, I can see them gleefully cooking up schemes to upend Seanchan society. Egwene would have used Min, she'd probably have even tried to use Mat.

The thing for me is, I can't see anything wrong with that at all. In fact, I fully expect Cadsuane to do the exact same thing once the Hall informs her of Egwene's conversation with Tuon. Cadsuane also has an ally in Min, and I can't see her sitting aside and letting women stay collared. She'll give it a few years for recovery, then do pretty much what I described above.

What's more, I don't see the Wise Ones or the Windfinders opposing this either. I'm fairly sure that as long as the terms of the Dragon's Peace are kept, nothing prevents manipulation and politics. Elayne won't be sitting still either, and in terms of the Seanchan, while her feelings may not be as visceral, she thinks exactly the same way Egwene does.

All in all, I don't think the Seanchan situation has changed much with Egwene's death. Maybe the manner of her death will make Tuon at least consider that not all free channelers are a horror, but I doubt it. As for the Aes Sedai and other channelers, I'm pretty sure they'll work their ass off to achieve precisely what Egwene wanted anyway. 

The greater use for Egwene's death, though, may have been to cement her policies in the Tower. Many of them were likely to prove unpopular, especially her insistence on freedom for the WO and the WF. Her death will make those arguments less likely to win the day. Same with actively recruiting Novices of all ages, etc. She's made herself the sort of legend the White Tower has never had before. That's going to change some things.

I think Egwene's death would have worked better if the reaction to it was more than four throwaway lines from Leanne, Mat, Perrin and Nynaeve. That was just dumb, and completely unrealistic. Elayne couldn't possibly have reacted to it as sanguinely as she's depicted to. Would have been nice to see the WO mourn too, as well as her closest Aes Sedai friends.

I felt it was completely absurd that we didn't get some of that in Rand's last PoV. Maybe RJ would have added it in his second pass at the scene, and Brandon just didn't want to change what RJ wrote, but to me, it seemed like it would have been perfect if, when Rand left SG, he planned to make a trip of the world, but start with a trip to Merrilor to pay his respects to the fallen heroes, Egwene at the top of the list. It would have been a perfect resolution to the "list", if he planned to go there and make sure all the dead were remembered and honored. Maybe he'd visit the pillar of crystal Egwene left behind, her own Dragonmount, of sorts. 

Of course, another thing that would have made this better is if 'the Flame of Tar Valon" had more buildup. Brandon said the weave was noted, so it isn't like the weave was to die with her. I'd have liked to see more discussion of what it was, its connection to cuendillar (if it exists), and how Egwene came up with it. Would have been nice to see some Aes Sedai use it too, to further shore up the Pattern, and kill some Trollocs. Would have been awesome if the remaining AS linked and started throwing it at the Trolloc hordes.

Plus, did anyone find it weird that she didn't link with Narishma and Merise? When I saw those two nearby when she was fighting Taim, I thought it was the perfect mirror to Rand facing the DO with a circle. She could have released them and made the conscious choice to overextend herself after Taim was killed. I just found it weird that she never used saidin. Seemed to be a major thematic miss, for me.

 

So basically, with no introduction, a random Aes Sedai would heal the Pattern, then her voice would speak to Rand? Wonderful...

What?... No! Are you even reading my posts?

No "random AS". Egwene! But without being damane, without becoming amirlyn, without trying so hard to understand the Aiel, and so on...

I don't recognize this person you describe as Egwene. Certainly, this character wouldn't have made a deal that would have brought the AS, WO and WF together. She'd have lost to Mesaana in TAR, she'd have never really managed to win against Elaida when she was captured, and she certainly wouldn't have been in a position to make the deal Egwene made with Tuon. Nor would she have taken on Egeanin as her Warder.

I think its absurd to say that every story related to a person needs to be neatly tied up before they die. It never happens that way. Egwene did more in her few months as Amyrlin than many other women ever have. Heck, barring Rand, she'll have the most lasting influence on WoT society of all the characters. All this is enough reason for her to have had the storyline she did, and the great potential for her future life is what makes her death an actual tragedy, and the greatest loss in the Last Battle.

 

...And stoper: her postmortem talk is not her biggest accomplishment, because I think its matched by her sealing the rift in the Patter to prevent the DO from entering. She had her own sealing. Heck, for all we know, the original Sealing by LTT was similar to her anti-Balefire weave. Its certainly interesting that the two people who achieved any kind of Sealing were both capable of making Cuendiallar (Rand says the Seals were LTT's own work). I suspect there's a link, there.

My point still stands. That too could be done without everything that happened to her in the books.

So basically, with no introduction, a random Aes Sedai would heal the Pattern, then her voice would speak to Rand? Wonderful...

 

And the source of her name, Guinevere, who was to be burned at the stake, but was rescued by Arthur's ally Lancelot, and ended up entering a convent where she spends the rest of her life. This was reversed for Egwene, who never betrayed Rand, and Taim, the Lancelot stand-in, doesn't sleep with her but instead tries to kill her. Then Egwene dies in a "pyre" of her own making, giving up her life in the "convent" that is the WT. Other players are around too: Mordred (Demandred), Gawain (Gawyn), etc. but all with twisted roles. So that was a strong parallel too.

When I have tried to find the characters in the source material I started with Rand as the Fisher King as well as Arthur.  I quickly discovered that Rand has characteristics of all three major Grail Kings, the disembodied voice of Titurel, the first grail king, the dolorous wound of Anfortas, the Fisher King, and most importantly Parcival who heals the dolorous wound and becomes the new grail king.  If you look up Parcival (Percival, Parsifal, etc) you will see a lot of Rand in his stories.

 

Looking in the various Parcival tales the are two characters who stand out as possible models for Egwene (In addition to Guinevere) Sigune and Orgeleuse (aka The Proud Woman, The Hauty Woman, the Loathsome Damsel/Beautiful Damsel/Grail Bearer).  Sigune was a childhood friend of Parcival.  She later left and was raised for a time along with Parcival's future wife and cousin Blanchefleur (White Flower).  Parcival gets Blanchefleur pregnant with twins by the way and she does not tell him she is pregnant till the end of the story.  Sigune's new husband dies in a duel with a man who really wanted to face Parcival.  After that Sigune pulls out all her hair and becomes a personification of Lady Fortune.  Parcival runs into Sigune 3 times.  Each time she tells him something critical to his quest.  She chews him out for failing to ask the right question the first time he has a chance to heal the dolorous wound.  At the end of the tale she seals herself in a building with no windows or doors along with her dead husband and dies.  Parcival find the pair and buries them.

 

I think much of Egwene's personality comes from the second woman, Orgeleuse (aka The Proud Woman, The Hauty Woman, the Loathsome Damsel/Beautiful Damsel/Grail Bearer).  This woman in the grail stores is Gawen's future wife.  The names pretty much tell the story as far as her personality.  The Fisher King was once in love with her and he receives the dolorous wound while fighting for her (Rand at Falme?).  In one version the knight that causes the wound was once rejected admission to the grail knights by Titurel, the first grail king, and he vowed revenge.  (Later in that version we learn that this knight is Mara the God of Death who tempts the future Buddha with 3 women).  She asks Parcival to work for her but he rejects the offer.  She also gets mad at Parcival for failing to ask the correct question that would heal the dolorous wound.  She knows he screwed up because she is the Grail Bearer and was there when he messed up.  In the tales either Gawen falls in love with her or agrees to marry her because of King Arthur.  In their courtship she treats him horrendously nearly getting him killed several times but he does not give up on her.  Only when Gawen learns to follow her commands without question does she agree to marry him.  When he does she reveals she was under a curse that made her be cruel and that Gawen has lifted the curse.

 

Depending on the version these two women are sometimes combined into one character or broken up into many women.  There is more to say on the subject but I will stop here for now.

Interesting stuff. Thanks!

And stoper: her postmortem talk is not her biggest accomplishment, because I think its matched by her sealing the rift in the Patter to prevent the DO from entering. She had her own sealing. Heck, for all we know, the original Sealing by LTT was similar to her anti-Balefire weave. Its certainly interesting that the two people who achieved any kind of Sealing were both capable of making Cuendiallar (Rand says the Seals were LTT's own work). I suspect there's a link, there.

@xxx

 

Serious question for you here. Why are you so adamant about not giving her any credit whatsoever for her role in the LB(and you laughingly say to fionwe "I know this is hard for you to hear" in your post above. Can you not see how ironic that is given the topic)? You have moved the goal posts so many times about what her involvement would be. Pre AMoL you were saying she would do nothing of importance at the LB, had nothing to offer Rand in terms of information for sealing the DO, had no right to question his plans, the WT's time had past, etc. Now that it is plain how things had to fall out and that she played about as large a role as anyone aside from Rand you still try to deny what was written. What is the big deal to just admitting what happens in the books? Rand is the DR, the CoL...Egwene doing what she did does not in anyway threaten who he is or take away from how big his contributions were. Do you just not want to admit that you were wrong?

Of course he won't admit anything. His conception of the series depends on his idea that Egwene is a nobody. Why would something like facts change that?

Ah, I see. Well, I tried to look around, (mainly using the wiki for dreams and viewings) and didn't see anything that may have referenced. However, I am led to believe there was both foreshadowing in ToM and early on in aMoL, though I can't remember exactly. It's difficult to tell with Min's viewings, because as I said, Min doesn't see Egwene at all for a huge chunk of the series. So yeah, not sure how well her death was foreshadowed prior to Brandon taking over the helm. But then again, I doubt something of that magnitude would be left out of RJ's notes (but I could be horribly wrong here).

 

I guess Rand always swearing to protect her early in the series could count... She was also built up as quite the Mary Sue, and it 'could' be that Jordan had planned her death because of this, or vice versa.

The best foreshadowing I've heard of is the reference to "The Year of the Four Amyrlins". Siuan mentions it as being a part of early Tower history, which she said the Tower split greatly resembled. In the end, "nearly everyone came to grief". Well, this was also a year with Four Amyrlins, and all but Cadsuane came to grief. 

Another strong indicator was the heavy parallels with Rand. Now, Rand didn't actually die, but the world at large does think he's dead, which is the more comparable part, I think. 

And the source of her name, Guinevere, who was to be burned at the stake, but was rescued by Arthur's ally Lancelot, and ended up entering a convent where she spends the rest of her life. This was reversed for Egwene, who never betrayed Rand, and Taim, the Lancelot stand-in, doesn't sleep with her but instead tries to kill her. Then Egwene dies in a "pyre" of her own making, giving up her life in the "convent" that is the WT. Other players are around too: Mordred (Demandred), Gawain (Gawyn), etc. but all with twisted roles. So that was a strong parallel too.

Lastly, there is her dream, where she sees one path where she marries Gawyn, one where she does not, one where he lives a long life, and one where he dies violently. She never knew which path was matched with which. We know now...

 

 

Rand squeezed his eyes shut, thinking of all those who had died for him.  Of Egwene, whom he had sworn to himself to protect.

You fool.  Her voice in his head.  Fond, but sharp.

...

Let go, Rand.  Let us die for what we believe, and do not try to steal that from us.  You have embraced your death.  Embrace mine.

Tears leaked from the corners of his eyes.  "I'm sorry," he whispered.

Why?

"I've failed."

No.  Not yet you haven't

The Dark One flayed him.  He huddled before that vast nothingness, unable to move.  He screamed in agony.

And then, he let go.

 

Redemption to the Redeemer!

Perhaps we are getting confused as to the order of importance of Egwene's accomplishments at her death.  Actually it may be this scene which is the most important of her accomplishments in WOT.  Rand's guilt list has been his tragic flaw throughout almost the entire series.  In book after book characters have been arguing with him over it's unreasonableness but none have been able to argue successfully.  In the beginning Rand tried to make himself hard and kill off his emotions.  Later compassion led him to attempt to embrace the suffering of others.  Even then some characters thought there was something wrong with Rand's attitude, but none could change his mind.

Rand accepts the responsibility of redeeming everyone else by sacrificing himself to kill the DO but underneath he, himself has a desperate need of being redeemed.  When he walks into the Pit and fights the DO completely alone he has achieved only partial enlightenment and thus the DO is able to crush him.  

Looked at this way it might make more sense why Egwene would be the one from the original EF group that needed to die.  She was the first one that he worried about getting killed.  He has been worried about her since day 2 in the barn in EF when she shows up with her sack demanding to go on their adventure without understanding what was at stake.  When they are separated at Shadar Logoth he refuses to accept the possibility she is dead.  Again and again he makes it clear that her death would be unacceptable.  In the end Egwene had to be the one to offer Rand his redemption and allow him to complete his path to enlightenment.  It is interesting that in the end it is not Egwene the Amyrlin or Egwene Sedai that is able to do save Rand but just Egwene al'Vere of the TR.  Throughout the series she is driving herself to an extreme or allowing herself to be physically beaten over and over again in order to build herself up and be in control.  That is certainly a pathological pattern of behavior. In her last battle she is depicted as being in an angry rage the entire time till she cast the flame of Tar Valon.  After that she is able to let go herself.  Perhaps she also was able to achieve a redemption from her own inner demons in the end.

Of course odds are I am completely wrong but it is an explanation that would foreshadow the ending of the book and there is no way Rand could have won without that scene.

What makes you think that it was Egwene in that scene and not Rand talking to himself?.He was talking to his father just before the Egwene scene and Tam is alive and well.

Let's have a look, eh?

Let go. His fathers voice.

“I have to save them . . .” Rand whispered.

Let them sacrifice. You can’t do this yourself.

“I have to . . . That’s what it means . . .” The Dark One’s destruction crawled on him like a thousand crows, picking at his flesh, pulling it from his bones. He could barely think through the pressure and the sense of loss. The death of Egwene and so many others.

Let go.

It is their choice to make.

When Tam's voice speaks in Rand's head, Rand doesn't think Tam is speaking to him. Nor is the voice described as having any kind of tone or emotion. Most importantly, he's remembering what his father said, not having a completely new conversation. Now compare that to when Egwene talks:

You fool. Her voice in his head. Fond, but sharp.

“Egwene?”

Right away, Rand himself treats the voice differently than he did his father's. He asks out loud if Egwene was speaking. Plus, her voice has a tone, fond but sharp, which is very different from just a voice in your head from a memory.

Am I not allowed to be a hero, too?

 

“It’s not that . .

You march to your death. Yet you forbid anyone else from doing so?

“I . . ”

Let go, Rand. Let us die for what we believe, and do not try to steal that from us. You have embraced your death. Embrace mine.

 

Tears leaked from the corners of his eyes. “I’m sorry,” he whispered.

 

Why?

“I’ve failed.”

No. Not yet you haven’t.

The rest is an actual conversation. And in that conversation, Egwene's voice is aware of its death, and is also using a specific phrase "embrace death", that the Wise Ones used with her, but which Rand himself has never heard, and has never heard her use. With Tam, Rand imagined him saying the very things he'd said before. But that can't explain Egwene's side of this conversation. And certainly, if she was not actually conversing, Rand has no reason to call her name out loud.

Anyway why would Egwene be any different from the hundereds of other threads which were cut in the LB.She is not a hero of the horn,just a regular soul.So logically there is no way she is talking after her death unless every other common thread in the pattern can linger on after death with memories of past lives.

First of all, we don't know she isn't a Hero, or isn't in some way tied to Rand's soul. We do know that in Falme, she also felt a tug from Rand like Min and Elayne did, but Nynaeve did not, indicating at least some connection. Then, her Accepted test, past present and future, were all about Rand. Plus, of course, her life closely parallels Rand. There's enough hints they're tied together more than being friends. Who knows how any of that affected what Egwene's soul could do after death?

Lots of good discussion of Egwene.  I agree with those who think her death was a dumb move.  She had started out with the three boys, and had grown up through Aes Sedai training, Aiel training, and finally taking over as Amyrlin Seat.  She was a major character.  She deserved better than to die fighting Taim, a relatively uninteresting character who should have been dispatched by another minor character, say Logain.  Reading about Egwene's journey was one of the best themes of Wheel of Time, but you know, when a TV series goes on for too long, the writers inevitably kill off a main character in the hopes of rekindling interest in the series.  I think that's what happened with WOT, which should have ended several books ago.  And so, because it continued on for too long, the result was the death of Egwene and some other strong characters who deserved something more than what they got in WOT.  Remember, all four hobbits came back alive in LOTR.  Can you imagine if Sam or one of the others had been killed off for no good reason?  There would have been a riot.

Firstly, Egwene was killed at the end, not mid series. This was not a ratings grab.

And she didn't die killing Taim. She died to heal the Pattern and to close a gap in it through which the Dark One could have escaped. Plus, her conversation with Rand was the catalyst for him to be able to shake free of the Dark One and achieve what he had to. Not to mention that her actions directly led to Logain breaking the Seals at the exact right moment.

 

Some proof that Egwene may be a Hero of the Horn:

 

 

 

Bela's death was the runaway winner for most brought up subject, to which Brandon usually arched his arm across the head of Memory Keeper Avienda, pointed at Harriet and said, "Blame her."  At one point he said he wrote a scene where she fought back to life, but Harriet cut it.  She overheard this, said it wasn't true and Brandon responded that he'd wanted to.  He then said that he likes to think that when the horn is called next one of the heroes will be riding a shaggy, gray mare.

 

This seems to confirm that Birgette was a special case when she came back when the Horn called. She was never really born, after all.

 

Of course, Bela has morphed into a gray mare here, and this could just be Brandon's preference and not cannon or anything. But if he wasn't completely joking, its pretty obvious who would be riding Bela... 

When you say she was never really born, in a way, she was. The pattern was working backwards with her- erasing her memories of Gaidal, past battles, etc. However, when she died, she was once again at the pattern's complete disposal.

Her memory was being erased. She wasn't growing younger. This is not the strange case of Birgette Buttons.

Suttree: Yeah. Sad that we don't have the name.

Some proof that Egwene may be a Hero of the Horn:

 

 

Bela's death was the runaway winner for most brought up subject, to which Brandon usually arched his arm across the head of Memory Keeper Avienda, pointed at Harriet and said, "Blame her."  At one point he said he wrote a scene where she fought back to life, but Harriet cut it.  She overheard this, said it wasn't true and Brandon responded that he'd wanted to.  He then said that he likes to think that when the horn is called next one of the heroes will be riding a shaggy, gray mare.

This seems to confirm that Birgette was a special case when she came back when the Horn called. She was never really born, after all.

Of course, Bela has morphed into a gray mare here, and this could just be Brandon's preference and not cannon or anything. But if he wasn't completely joking, its pretty obvious who would be riding Bela... 

I must have missed the part where the Egwene thread turned into the Battles thread.  Please advise. 

Its not much of a surprise. She and Mat were the heart of the action.