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WoT If...The Horn Is All About Location?


Mashiara Sedai

Hello all, and welcome back to "WoT If?", Dragonmount's weekly theory blog.  This week's topic is the Horn of Valere and the mysteries, and misinformation, behind it.  Before we start, though:

 

SPOILER WARNING.  This will include content from A Memory of Light.  Please DO NOT read this if you have not completed the book.

 

This last book really blew off a lot of preconceived notions about the Horn, even for Brandon Sanderson.  In an interview, Brandon says he was surprised that the Horn couldn't be used by a Darkfriend, and added that Harriet had to edit his work to fix it: "She explained that this was one of Jim's ruses, that the characters in [the] book were wrong and repeating bad information, and that Jim had been very clear with her that it was not the case."  This is only one example of how the truth an Aes Sedai says isn't what you think it is.  There were several others throughout the series.

 

Another issue that shocked me was the severed link between Mat and the Horn.  When Birgitte calls him Hornsounder in A Crown of Swords (Chapter 21, "Swovan Night"), I thought the link had to be intact.  Birgitte's ripping from Tel'aran'rhiod happened after Mat's balefire "death," so she should have known the link was lost.  In A Memory of Light, Hawkwing is aware that the link was broken when Mat was balefired (Chapter 39, "Those Who Fight"), so Birgitte should have known as well.  But, for argument's sake, perhaps Birgitte was calling him that out of respect.  Hawkwing himself called Mat "Hornblower" (Chapter 43, "Field of Glass").  In the United States, even former presidents are still called Mr. President—it stands to reason that a former Hornsounder could still be called Hornsounder.

 

Another exciting revelation: the Horn summons dead wolves!  There's plenty to talk about from this scene in A Memory of Light.  First, it seems the wolves only appear after Olver blows the Horn at Shayol Ghul.  Why weren't they summoned when the Horn was first sounded?  Is the location of the Horn important?  Olver first blows it in Merrilor, when he's trapped by Trollocs (Chapter 39, "Those Who Fight").  But the heroes all appear around the battlefield, not Olver—Noal rushes off to Olver right after the Horn is sounded.  And even further away, Birgitte appears standing over her dead body.  Why did Birgitte appear separate?  And if she could, why couldn't the wolves?

 

It isn't until Chapter 46 ("To Awaken"), that the wolves' spirits are called into the battle.  And it's only after Olver blows the Horn at Shayol Ghul.  Perrin notes that the wolves' spirits are all gathered, and it's only after the Horn calls that they ask Perrin to lead them.  Then Perrin thinks, "Why must the heroes all be human?"

 

We know the wolves have some sort of knowledge about the Last Hunt, and they must realize they have some role to play.  But Perrin's thought about wolf heroes doesn't seem right, unless every wolf is a hero.  The Horn called every wolf that was there, every spirit of a dead wolf—not only a select few that have proved themselves brave enough.  Perhaps the Horn just summons all the denizens of Tel'aran'rhiod.  If the souls of deer or any other wild beast had been near Shayol Ghul, would they have been summoned for the Last Hunt as well?  Or did the wolves only choose to be there because they have a connection to men and knew they could help?

 

And if the wolves are bound to—or at least called by—the Horn, how come they didn't appear in Falme?  It seems quite possible that some wolves would have been in the area and got caught up in the pull of the Horn.  But there were none.  Perrin was there, and could have led them.  Does this mean that the wolves could only participate once, in the Last Hunt only?

 

I looked through all the posted interviews at Theoryland to find any recent (Post-A Memory of Light) interviews about the Horn.  There aren't too many yet, so maybe that's something we'll have to ask Brandon Sanderson about.  Based on the way the Last Battle played out, I'm assuming location does matter.  The Horn summoned the heroes—who are naturally bound to the Horn.  They would have been called from anywhere they roamed in Tel'aran'rhiod.  But the wolves, who are creatures of the World of Dreams, yet not bound to the Horn—as far as we know—had to be in the location for the Horn to call them.  This still doesn't explain why they didn't help in Falme, but it does explain why they had to be called separately. 

 

One other thing I found, not necessarily about the Horn, but more about Tel'aran'rhiod, is a theory by FarShainMael on the A Memory of Light Spoiler Board.   FarShainMael suggests a link between Rand post-Tarmon Gai'don and the Horn's power to summon aspects of Tel'aran'rhiod to the real world.  He says:
 

This suggests to me that there is a special relationship between Rand and T'A'R.  Perhaps it's the reason for the Dragon being one with the land. Perhaps it's why the DO wants to turn Rand, to break the deadlock in favour of destruction. Perhaps it's why Perrin, master of the Land of Dreams, had to be there in T'A'R at VoG ["Veins of Gold," Chapter 50 of The Gathering Storm], to help Rand break his own deadlock. Perhaps it's the source of the Light in Rand's brain, detected by Nynaeve. And it may indicate how the Bore is to be sealed - from T'A'R.

 

I think this raises an interesting concept.  We see that Rand has complete control over his surroundings.  He only has to impose his will in order to light his pipe.  This is very close to the way things work in Tel'aran'rhiod.  Rand is one who is bound to the Horn—after he dies, he will be summoned if the Horn were sounded—so it's possible he could use some benefits from the Horn while alive.  Maybe the same would have happened for Birgitte if she hadn't died.  Maybe an aspect of this will pass into the young Gaidal Cain.  We really have no way to know for certain what the Horn does to the heroes who are already born.  But I like FarShainMael's idea.

 

That's all I've got on the Horn.  I'm really hoping more interviews with Brandon Sanderson will show up and he'll have a bit more to say on the subject.  Next week, I'd like to look at the body-swap theory more closely and examine what exactly happened at the end there.  Thanks for reading!




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id say that the horn returns all the heros who are in the vicinity of the horn when it was sounded... it returned hawkwing and his companions in falme(in accordance with the precepts), because they were there in TaR waiting for it to be sounded and no wolves(because they dont like cities anyways)... whereas in the blight, we already knew that the wolves were headed north in TaR for the last hunt...

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I agree that the wolves probably wouldn't have been anywhere near Falme considering how they avoid cities, even in T'A'R due to the nightmares.

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I like this theory I think its more likely the wolves just knew that the howl of the horn was the call to engage just as they knew rand on dragon mount was either the start or end of the last hunt

 

but rand does seem to have a special connection with telaranhoid sp?

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Perhaps the wolves being masters of TaR simply used the 'doorway' created by the use of the horn at their own discretion. They wouldn't have had any desire to join the battle at Falme when the horn was first sounded, so they didn't utilize it then. Or perhaps they were only able to appear at the final battle because TaR and reality were blended at that time and their appearance had nothing to do with the power of the horn at all. Or perhaps a little of both, and they were only able to answer the call of the horn because the link between worlds was weak. However they got there, the story line implies that it was something they chose to do rather than being bound to the horn. This is supported by several facts. 1. They would have appeared at Falme had they been bound. 2. They wouldn't have needed to go north to the blight in TaR for the last battle. 3. All of the wolves seemed to have appeared, not just a select few of the elite like the human heroes. I also find myself wondering if their appearance had nothing to do with the horn or their superior knowledge of TaR. Maybe they needed Perrin to lead them because of his ability to move in and out of TaR and they couldn’t join the fight without him. Hmm..

 

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Perrin himself had to lead the wolves at the last battle. similar to rand and mat he had a pivotal role to play at the last battle. in the great hunt perrin hadn't yet learned enough of being a wolfbrother or of tel aran rhiod to lead, just as mat hadn't had the ability to be the general in tha tinstance

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One tiny piece of information you left out...small enough that I myself missed it at first as well...the heroes aren't summoned to the horn's location...they are summoned to the dragon banner...which is why Matt panicked when he realized he lost the banner after crashing at Shayol'gul with olver

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Mashiara Sedai

Posted

I'm not sure if they are actually summoned to the banner; it seems like it's only necessary for it to be there for them to fight.  If they were summoned to the banner, why did Birgitte appear over her own dead body?

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Am I the only one that does not feel that Rand is as powerful as most people say?

 

I distinctly remember reading about different types of ter'angreal in an earlier book.  The character (Moraine maybe?) talked about how there was a ter'angreal shaped as pipe.  

 

Unfortunately, I cannot prove this as I am doing a reread to find it.   However, I could be wrong, but I truly do not feel like I am.

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@dragonheart hawkwing said it... "we come to the horn, but fight for the banner"... seemingly it wouldnt matter which side blew the horn, if they didnt have the banner, it wouldnt matter much... although, it was summed up, that the wheel simply wouldnt allow either to fall to the shadows hands...

 

@jonlewis rand is the most powerful in the book, by a considerable measure... tho, he could still be overpowered if the others were circled, or using an angreal...

 

yea, i kinda wondered what happened to those other terangreal the BA stole from the white tower too... namely, the dice...

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Has anyone ever questioned that the terms Last Battle and Tarmon Gai'don seemed to point to two separate battles? Considering that the wolves in both Randland and T'A'R were all running north in ToM, I will have to say a combination of location and for the wolves the choice to fight. They came to fight Darkhounds because they were the only ones that could stop them. Balefire would have been to dangerous, and that is the only way a channeler can destroy the darkhounds.

 

What do you all think??

 

Great post as always Mashiara!!

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Mashiara Sedai

Posted

Has anyone ever questioned that the terms Last Battle and Tarmon Gai'don seemed to point to two separate battles?

 

Are you saying that the Last Battle and Tarmon Gai'don aren't interchangeable words?  That they are two separate events? Because, that's an interesting idea! I've never considered it before; I think that Tarmon Gai'don, in the Old Tongue, means the Last Battle.  The Old Tongue dictionary says:

 

Tarmon gaidon = The last battle

"Gai" means "battle" which would seem to imply that "tarmon" means "last". However, "last battle" may not be (and probably isn't) a correct literal translation.

 

So, if it's not a literal translation, it could be two separate events.  If so, which one was which? 

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I'm guessing the Last Battle is the one taking place over the 200 page chapter called "The Last Battle".

 

Tarmon Gai'don may just be an Old Tongue reference to all of it together.

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