[Basic] I <3 the 90's Mafia: Music Edition - TOWN WINS!

Lizabeth · June 15, 2016

I'm going to try to power-skim before I get ready for work, but I'm going to do a thought dump first so I don't run out of time.

Sili, if you're actually town this game, then I really REALLY hope you take a good look at yourself and consider your responsibility in how you've approached other people and arguments. You've been involved in "thunderdomes" as you called them with at least 4 other players this game, and we know that at least two of those players (Hallia and Seph) were town. I still haven't read your argument with Hallia. But this is my point. It can't be all about "wolves are just out to get me!"

I've played with you before so I was prepared for this game to get locked into arguments where you don't recognize your own blindspots in your logic. But what feels wrong to me this game, compared to the last, is what I've pointed out as the patterns of you trying to undermine other people's logic with vague and coy statements, and then turning around and accusing them of doing that to you. THAT'S what feels scummy to me. But I'm tired of running circles with you, and as I've told Zander in the past, these types of circles wind up being a distraction. the information is there for people to judge for themselves.

As for the rest of my thoughts that don't involve Sili, I don't see that either Kat or Lenlo can be scum. It's possible, but I dont' see it as probable that Kat would have brought up those accusations on Lenny at the time that she did to help shift the lynch away from Niniel if she had been actual scum. There were enough people suspecting Niniel at that point that she could have hidden on that wagon without any real risk.

It's also possible but very improbable that Lenlo was scum buddies with Chris. I know that Chris HATES unnecessary bussing - he threatened Thane and Zander with intense bodily harm if they bused him in Mario Karts and I know he was superpissed that his scumbuddies bussed him on D1 in orphan black. So I don't see him pushing Lenlo that close to a lynch on D1 of all days in this game when it wasn't by any means necessary.

So that leaves Sili, Besie, and Alanna.

I'll see where I'm at when I'm done catching up.

Lizabeth · June 15, 2016

I'm pretty sure I've been pretty clear.

I'm going to stop going in circles with you because it's clogging up the thread. But I will go back and find the exchange so there's no longer any dispute about it.

You refuse? Then okay. I said pretty much exactly that I didn't like your conclusion considering the evidence portrayed. I later came to the conclusion that wish's vote DAY 1 on wish at that critical moment was important. However, as evidenced by the post you were responding to I do not believe that this is infallible.

Not one centimeter of my progression here is hypocritical.

*sigh*

Okay, this is my last attempt at trying to be clear with you on this issue.

The issue that I have with you is that you seemed to be saying that I - me, Liz - shouldn't be coming to the conclusion that Kat was next to impossible as lenny's partner based on what I pointed out. Is that or is that not what you were saying?

Lizabeth · June 15, 2016

[unvote]

[v] Liz [/v]

Liz, you asked about me speaking for Besie: did you not see the post of hers I quoted saying as much?

No, I did not. Why would I ask that as either town or scum if I had seen it?

Lizabeth · June 15, 2016

And like I said, I dont' care if you mislynch me today. I just hope town sees what I'm saying and follows up with lynching you tomorrow if they actually think I'm the one making up things in this exchange.

so fake.

if i am indeed a wolf, and i mislynch you then town is completely fooled and you should care. the amount of effort you've put in implies you do care about the game. therefore this is fake.

I do care about this game.

The reason I dont' care if I'm mislynched is because I think you've outed yourself now.

If we were in mylo, it would be different. But we're not. So if my mislynch is what it takes for people to see that you're actually scum, then so be it. The POE is narrow enough now that it should be easy enough to find your scum partner the next day as well.

how exactly is anything you've said ironclad?

incidentally you're okay with dying now, but you've said nothing about a second suspect yet.

Sili, let me explain what I mean as shading.

There's accusing someone saying "I think when you did X it was "wolfy" because of Z"

That's not shading.

Then there's characterizing a post as "verbose" "inflammatory" "silly" without actually addressing content, or making coy statements like "Oh, do you think it's better to say that liz just doesn't finish things". That's what I call shading.

Luckily it was easy enough to find because the link to the end of D3 is in the OP.

I was going to include the links to all the posts related to that conversation so Sili can't accuse me of "cherry picking", but it got tedious and people can just follow it for themselves.

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667900

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667901

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667912

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667914

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667915

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667916

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667918

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667920

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667923

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667924

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667925

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/98177-basic-i-3-the-90s-mafia-music-edition-day-5/?p=3667928

I'm done for now. I'm going to stop clogging up the thread.

This is pointless because i haven't seen you comment yet on the posts i think are villagery. So it'd still be cherry-picking lol.

This is another type of shading. Basically saying calling the post cherrypicking, saying you don't think it's villagery, without showing me the cherries that I supposedly missed. You dismiss the whole post without actually addressing the content.

Yes, because everything I've told you about my play says that I'm a normal villager.

And you keep making these statements about "normal villagers" as though that's actually a thing

Anyway, I said i was going to stop this. I'm going to look up that exchange now.

i suspect you fall under the broad range of typical villager. i don't know exactly what you'd do however, so i'm left to speculate.

all i'm doing is explaining why it was interesting however. i'm not sure if it means anything, but i speculate that it does.

You're saying that you don't know what I do when I've explained in pretty much excrutiating detail what it is what I do?

Okay. Let's go with that.

Goodnight.

you talked a lot about mariokarts, but i'm not very interested in that.

i suppose i could do more research on you. iso you in other games, but 95% of the time you're a wolf. Should i do more research for that 5%???

I think no tbh.

And here you go again.

I don't mean to be rude, but when you spend a wot on something erroneous I'm not obligated to read it.

And you're right. You're not obligated to read it. But then you don't get to say that I didn't give you facts for you to respond to. Well you can say it, but it's bull*** and you know it.

Lizabeth · June 15, 2016

Liz might ahve been lurking yesterday the day clov was cauhgt. no idea why she would have lurked though, but her phrasing implies she was there and i don't remember her posting.

maybe i'm wrong? i don't know.

but if no one remembers otherwise this is really scummy and a sign she's a wolf through and through.

And this is more shading again.

Where was I when Clov was lynched, Sili? where am I pretty much EVERY week day during that time of the day?

Lizabeth · June 15, 2016

So this is more trying to dismiss what I say by generically using derogatory statements instead of actually trying to show me where I'm wrong.

Show me where I'm wrong sili. I brought you clear facts. Show me where I'm being dishonest.

Still catching up.

I have showed you where you are wrong. You should try defending your arguments and then maybe if I believe they have merit I won't call them bad.

fyi, for people who don't want to read all the grit of the last few pages, such as kat, here i am in part referring to how liz didn't actually respond to my partial refutation of her iso.

you can look at all that if you're indeed curious. it's easy to spot. liz's iso is the thing with lot's of links.

At least you correct yourself on that one below.

I went over stuff a couple times. I missed a couple points liz brought up in a big wot, in blue.

well, yeah, if you are a cop you should n ever ever ever imply multiple town leans are actually peeks because that will confuse town if you get nkd. that's just basic stuff here. nor is it really that difficult to avoid calling people for sure town. i'm pretty sure i've done that in this game and i have like 850 posts.:

I'm just pointing out that it's been a pattern with you this game. And when did she imply that multiple town leans were peeks?

By omission I must assume you agree with the logic. Furthermore I quote the town leans in the post you are responding to. I shall go fetch the quote chain to demonstrate this.

If there is a pattern of sound reasoning and affirmative action then I am happy with this. But I think you mean there is a pattern of dismissal. This is how I play Lizabeth: I attack the reasoning and if the responses are inadequate I attack this failure as well.

i play with lots of people. sorry if i don't know how half of them play? I wasn't dismissing it as too verbose to read and I said as much at the time and I don't see why you wouldn't have read that. Is it that you don't believe me? I read your post several times. I was noting that it was verbose compared to the actual content. that sometimes matters."
You literally said: TL;DR. And then you proceeded to twist what I was saying about my read on clov, saying that I was saying that he was acting funny this game and that's why I was reading him as more likely town, where what I was saying is that he was acting "funny" for what I expected from him in the previous two games where he was actually scum and I didn't feel as comfortable about my town read on him in THOSE games.

I may have misread Lizabeth's comment, and that was apparent when I paraphrased, but I think Lizabeth is blaming me for twisting her words into a statement that shaded a wolf. It was completely unintentional (also funny in retrospect hehe), but it was not why I was paraphrasing her comment. I was paraphrasing to show that she was being very verbose, which indeed she was imo. It wasn't a big deal to me; it was more important to Lizabeth.

As for the first part - I was pointing out that you were going back and forth about lily and in one of your comments you made the competence remark, with matched (to me) with other comments you made undermining other people's points of view. It was an example to underscore a point, not the point itself.

for the second part, yes, I was blaming you for twisting your words. But not because I thought you were trying to shade Clov with that statement. Because it looked like you were trying to shade me. I'm the one you called verbose, not him. I'm the one you mocked for saying that I was more comfortable with leaning town on him this game because he was (in your words) acting funny, when that was the opposite of what I said. And again, that wasn't the point itself. It was an example to underscore a point.

My reads atm:

1. Darthe – Who can read Darthe? Not me.

2. ~~Thane Vakarian~~ Besie – After ISO, not in town pile, but not terribly scummy

3. BFG – felt good about her early on. Need to see more currently

4. Hallia - town

6. Sili Quirrels – mystery man

7. Katiora – Slight town

8. dicetosser1 – After ISO, nothing

9. Lenlo – After ISO, slight scum read

10. Niniel – after ISO, feeling town on her

11. Clovdyx - town

13. LilyElizabeth - town

14. Wishtree/Stork hydra – feeling pretty town on them

15. Alannalynn – after ISO, mild town read on her

16. Lizabeth – After ISO, pretty null still

ref.

They can't all be town, I know...

not sure what sort of competent cop gives multiple villagers 'town' reads like that.

Liz, an honest question... Do you usually not read when you're a villager?

Again, why are you shading me here?

And regardless of that you're still casting dispersion on Lily here - you just quoted her as saying that she knew they can't all be town. So even after her flip, why would we assume that her reads lists were all checks? So how does that prove your point?

Sorry, I'm salty you put me through this, and maybe you're just confused here.

Normally when a cop makes reads like Lily did, merely saying that an individual is town - it comes across as a peek. Any tutorial will tell you not to do that because it's confusing.

This is what I was referencing in my first post of the day - if you're town, seriously drop this damn victim mentality. I didn't put you through this. I'm questioning you. It's my job to fricking question you. If you're salty about it, step away from the game and come back to it when you can be more rational.

Lizabeth · June 15, 2016

The way i see it, Lizabeth quotes all my posts except the two most villagery moments that on their own refute all her arguments with respect to that day.

In other words, Lizabeth cherry-picked the posts that looked the worst in her tunnel. She framed it as bad as she could. And now she is 'convinced' I am a wolf. Furthermore, the meat of her case is based on a fraction of my content and she believes that's enough to post-humus lynch me.

Lizabeth is NEVER a villager.

This is the last thing I'm saying to you on this subject. If I cherry picked you, then show me what I missed. Bring up the links. They're not hard to find in the links that I posted.

Lizabeth · June 15, 2016

Wow.

I can't say that I honestly read absolutely everything of the sili-liz exchange, but I read most (80%?). It felt quite a bit repetitive, especially in the beginning. Like two very stubborn people saying the same things over and over and not changing their opinion.

I am going to keep my vote where it is. My reason being that the sili/liz thing is drawing my (and whoever reads it) attention away from the suspects we have.

Liz is in my WTL. I'd like to see what some others make of this to and fro before I change my vote.

Sili, I saw you changed your vote to liz. Who were you on before? I'm on phone so it's a bit harder to go back and check.

Thanks. This iis helpful. Either you're pocketing Sili right now or you're supporting a scum mate. I'll say the same thing to you that I said to Sili - if I'm wrong, show me where I'm wrong, since you've read absolutely everything.

And explain to me how Lenlo can be scum now that we know that Chris was mafia.

Lizabeth · June 15, 2016

I have to go get ready for work. But I see that end of day is actually after my work hours this time, so I'll be able to actually be here.

keyholder21 · June 15, 2016

Official Vote Count:

Liz (2) - Sili, Hallia
Lenlo (1) - Besie

Besie (1) - Alanna

Sili (1) - Lizabeth

Not Voting (2): Katiora, Lenlo

Deadline: Wednesday, June 15th, 10:30 PM CDT

Sili Quirrels · June 15, 2016

I'm going to try to power-skim before I get ready for work, but I'm going to do a thought dump first so I don't run out of time.

Sili, if you're actually town this game, then I really REALLY hope you take a good look at yourself and consider your responsibility in how you've approached other people and arguments. You've been involved in "thunderdomes" as you called them with at least 4 other players this game, and we know that at least two of those players (Hallia and Seph) were town. I still haven't read your argument with Hallia. But this is my point. It can't be all about "wolves are just out to get me!"

I've played with you before so I was prepared for this game to get locked into arguments where you don't recognize your own blindspots in your logic. But what feels wrong to me this game, compared to the last, is what I've pointed out as the patterns of you trying to undermine other people's logic with vague and coy statements, and then turning around and accusing them of doing that to you. THAT'S what feels scummy to me. But I'm tired of running circles with you, and as I've told Zander in the past, these types of circles wind up being a distraction. the information is there for people to judge for themselves.

As for the rest of my thoughts that don't involve Sili, I don't see that either Kat or Lenlo can be scum. It's possible, but I dont' see it as probable that Kat would have brought up those accusations on Lenny at the time that she did to help shift the lynch away from Niniel if she had been actual scum. There were enough people suspecting Niniel at that point that she could have hidden on that wagon without any real risk.

It's also possible but very improbable that Lenlo was scum buddies with Chris. I know that Chris HATES unnecessary bussing - he threatened Thane and Zander with intense bodily harm if they bused him in Mario Karts and I know he was superpissed that his scumbuddies bussed him on D1 in orphan black. So I don't see him pushing Lenlo that close to a lynch on D1 of all days in this game when it wasn't by any means necessary.

So that leaves Sili, Besie, and Alanna.

I'll see where I'm at when I'm done catching up.

read like the first paragraph and just want to say nice reading comprehension :/

Sili Quirrels · June 15, 2016

And you're right. You're not obligated to read it. But then you don't get to say that I didn't give you facts for you to respond to. Well you can say it, but it's bull*** and you know it.

never said you didn't give me info about your meta.

also i scanned it before i went to sleep. didn't seem to be very relevant.

Sili Quirrels · June 15, 2016

Wow.

I can't say that I honestly read absolutely everything of the sili-liz exchange, but I read most (80%?). It felt quite a bit repetitive, especially in the beginning. Like two very stubborn people saying the same things over and over and not changing their opinion.

I am going to keep my vote where it is. My reason being that the sili/liz thing is drawing my (and whoever reads it) attention away from the suspects we have.

Liz is in my WTL. I'd like to see what some others make of this to and fro before I change my vote.

Sili, I saw you changed your vote to liz. Who were you on before? I'm on phone so it's a bit harder to go back and check.

no one.

it's not really repetitive. my tl;dr is liz asked a bunch of loaded questions, i accuse liz of asking loaded questions, and when she refuses to elaborate on how i'm wolfy i go into detail in my responses. I went into detail before that. She didn't respond to that effectively. There were a lot of loose ends liz left by the time i went to sleep, and i'm not including the posts i made after liz headed in.

I also point out some things liz has done in the last several pages which are wolfy.

i meant kat's vote on wish day 1, not wish's vote on wish.

Sili Quirrels · June 15, 2016

The way i see it, Lizabeth quotes all my posts except the two most villagery moments that on their own refute all her arguments with respect to that day.

In other words, Lizabeth cherry-picked the posts that looked the worst in her tunnel. She framed it as bad as she could. And now she is 'convinced' I am a wolf. Furthermore, the meat of her case is based on a fraction of my content and she believes that's enough to post-humus lynch me.

Lizabeth is NEVER a villager.

This is the last thing I'm saying to you on this subject. If I cherry picked you, then show me what I missed. Bring up the links. They're not hard to find in the links that I posted.

Besides the fact your case involves a fraction of my content?

Well, I quoted the posts from day 4 i believe you should have mentioned.

When you accused me of blaming you for reading too much into kat's push, you leave out that I accused no one else of this.

When you accuse me of having a hissy fit with Lenlo you leave out the fact I laid out my case in full.

Quoting these posts from day 3 isn't the same as weighing in on them and factoring them into your analysis nor is it an indication you've read them. I believe you only linked a few from day 3 anyway.

Sili Quirrels · June 15, 2016

So this is more trying to dismiss what I say by generically using derogatory statements instead of actually trying to show me where I'm wrong.

Show me where I'm wrong sili. I brought you clear facts. Show me where I'm being dishonest.

Still catching up.

I have showed you where you are wrong. You should try defending your arguments and then maybe if I believe they have merit I won't call them bad.

fyi, for people who don't want to read all the grit of the last few pages, such as kat, here i am in part referring to how liz didn't actually respond to my partial refutation of her iso.

you can look at all that if you're indeed curious. it's easy to spot. liz's iso is the thing with lot's of links.

At least you correct yourself on that one below.

I went over stuff a couple times. I missed a couple points liz brought up in a big wot, in blue.

well, yeah, if you are a cop you should n ever ever ever imply multiple town leans are actually peeks because that will confuse town if you get nkd. that's just basic stuff here. nor is it really that difficult to avoid calling people for sure town. i'm pretty sure i've done that in this game and i have like 850 posts.:

I'm just pointing out that it's been a pattern with you this game. And when did she imply that multiple town leans were peeks?

By omission I must assume you agree with the logic. Furthermore I quote the town leans in the post you are responding to. I shall go fetch the quote chain to demonstrate this.

If there is a pattern of sound reasoning and affirmative action then I am happy with this. But I think you mean there is a pattern of dismissal. This is how I play Lizabeth: I attack the reasoning and if the responses are inadequate I attack this failure as well.

i play with lots of people. sorry if i don't know how half of them play? I wasn't dismissing it as too verbose to read and I said as much at the time and I don't see why you wouldn't have read that. Is it that you don't believe me? I read your post several times. I was noting that it was verbose compared to the actual content. that sometimes matters."
You literally said: TL;DR. And then you proceeded to twist what I was saying about my read on clov, saying that I was saying that he was acting funny this game and that's why I was reading him as more likely town, where what I was saying is that he was acting "funny" for what I expected from him in the previous two games where he was actually scum and I didn't feel as comfortable about my town read on him in THOSE games.

I may have misread Lizabeth's comment, and that was apparent when I paraphrased, but I think Lizabeth is blaming me for twisting her words into a statement that shaded a wolf. It was completely unintentional (also funny in retrospect hehe), but it was not why I was paraphrasing her comment. I was paraphrasing to show that she was being very verbose, which indeed she was imo. It wasn't a big deal to me; it was more important to Lizabeth.

As for the first part - I was pointing out that you were going back and forth about lily and in one of your comments you made the competence remark, with matched (to me) with other comments you made undermining other people's points of view. It was an example to underscore a point, not the point itself.

for the second part, yes, I was blaming you for twisting your words. But not because I thought you were trying to shade Clov with that statement. Because it looked like you were trying to shade me. I'm the one you called verbose, not him. I'm the one you mocked for saying that I was more comfortable with leaning town on him this game because he was (in your words) acting funny, when that was the opposite of what I said. And again, that wasn't the point itself. It was an example to underscore a point.

My reads atm:

1. Darthe – Who can read Darthe? Not me.

2. ~~Thane Vakarian~~ Besie – After ISO, not in town pile, but not terribly scummy

3. BFG – felt good about her early on. Need to see more currently

4. Hallia - town

6. Sili Quirrels – mystery man

7. Katiora – Slight town

8. dicetosser1 – After ISO, nothing

9. Lenlo – After ISO, slight scum read

10. Niniel – after ISO, feeling town on her

11. Clovdyx - town

13. LilyElizabeth - town

14. Wishtree/Stork hydra – feeling pretty town on them

15. Alannalynn – after ISO, mild town read on her

16. Lizabeth – After ISO, pretty null still

ref.

They can't all be town, I know...

not sure what sort of competent cop gives multiple villagers 'town' reads like that.

Liz, an honest question... Do you usually not read when you're a villager?

Again, why are you shading me here? I. Think. You. Are. A. Wolf. Who. Does. Not. Read. Posts.

And regardless of that you're still casting dispersion on Lily here - you just quoted her as saying that she knew they can't all be town. So even after her flip, why would we assume that her reads lists were all checks? So how does that prove your point? we can talk about it after the game, but i don't think lily will change her ways. it's a pointless topic, but yes lil played that poorly imo.

Sorry, I'm salty you put me through this, and maybe you're just confused here.

Normally when a cop makes reads like Lily did, merely saying that an individual is town - it comes across as a peek. Any tutorial will tell you not to do that because it's confusing.

This is what I was referencing in my first post of the day - if you're town, seriously drop this damn victim mentality. I didn't put you through this. I'm questioning you. It's my job to fricking question you. If you're salty about it, step away from the game and come back to it when you can be more rational.

answered in bold. *yawn*

my victim mentality is because you're a wolf and there was really no reason to tdome me.

maybe next time you're in this spot start lolcatting ya?

June 15, 2016

Hi sili

I know you say no one, but you unvoted.

if you're town you should feel ashamed, but not bad, i guess.

this sort of thing...

no i can't even say it happens. you're probably just a wolf afaict.

[unvote]

[v]liz[/v]

Who did you think you were voting?

Sili Quirrels · June 15, 2016

As for the first part - I was pointing out that you were going back and forth about lily and in one of your comments you made the competence remark, with matched (to me) with other comments you made undermining other people's points of view. It was an example to underscore a point, not the point itself.

for the second part, yes, I was blaming you for twisting your words. But not because I thought you were trying to shade Clov with that statement. Because it looked like you were trying to shade me. I'm the one you called verbose, not him. I'm the one you mocked for saying that I was more comfortable with leaning town on him this game because he was (in your words) acting funny, when that was the opposite of what I said. And again, that wasn't the point itself. It was an example to underscore a point.

whoops, missed you.

first part - so your problem with me is that i condescend like you and clov have condescended to me? I try to respond reasonably. When reason goes over and under and I'm still being attacked I attacked the bigger patterns. That's all it is, or will ever be.

Anyway, this is not an example of that. Lil's villageriness was linked to her cop claim. i was trying to ascertain if lil was a cop. it was not undermining her point of view just to spite her. your point is irrelevant, and you would know that if you were paying attention.

second part - i was trying to shade you for shading clov? You realize calling clov funny isn't that bad when he indeed was acting funny? Bfg called him out on it.

HEll calling a player in general funny isn't that bad when you've had experience with them. So no the statement doesn't shade you. lol.

Sili Quirrels · June 15, 2016

Hi sili

I know you say no one, but you unvoted.

if you're town you should feel ashamed, but not bad, i guess.

this sort of thing...

no i can't even say it happens. you're probably just a wolf afaict.

[unvote]

[v]liz[/v]

Who did you think you were voting?

No one lol. It was typing very fast and I was relying on physical memory, and usually when you vote someone you're unvoting.

Sili Quirrels · June 15, 2016

Sorry I responded inside the quotes by imstake.

June 15, 2016

Okay thanks

June 15, 2016

Yeah I saw :smile:

June 15, 2016

Wow.

I can't say that I honestly read absolutely everything of the sili-liz exchange, but I read most (80%?). It felt quite a bit repetitive, especially in the beginning. Like two very stubborn people saying the same things over and over and not changing their opinion.

I am going to keep my vote where it is. My reason being that the sili/liz thing is drawing my (and whoever reads it) attention away from the suspects we have.

Liz is in my WTL. I'd like to see what some others make of this to and fro before I change my vote.

Sili, I saw you changed your vote to liz. Who were you on before? I'm on phone so it's a bit harder to go back and check.

Thanks. This iis helpful. 1Either you're pocketing Sili right now or you're supporting a scum mate. I'll say the same thing to you that I said to Sili - if I'm wrong, show me where I'm wrong, since 2 you've read absolutely everything.

3 And explain to me how Lenlo can be scum now that we know that Chris was mafia.

1 - neither

2 - see bolded in my post in the spoiler

3 - nothing stood out to me about clov in the iso I did of Lenlo so I'm not sure what you want from me

Sili Quirrels · June 15, 2016

sigh. why is your assessment that 80% of it was just back and forth? i don't think it was like that. a ton of nuance was flying around.

perhaps you can also tl;dr why you want to lynch liz?

and how does a tdome with liz (not my choice btw) influence your wtl if you wtl liz? makes you wtl liz more than you should or something?

Sili Quirrels · June 15, 2016

apparently besie is liz's second wolf. interesting lol.

Sili Quirrels · June 15, 2016

'interesting' cause i said liz and besie can't be m/m a few days ago. XD

[Basic] I <3 the 90's Mafia: Music Edition - TOWN WINS!

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