[Basic] Operation Domination - Game Over - Mafia Wins

[Graendal-Mafia]

Not what I'm saying at all.

 

Mafia has 2 of the active Admin. Verbal and Barm.

 

The one I am waiting on info fro this night is Luckers. He would be third party. That one is based solo on my read of this game.

 

Jenn and Taymist are in the game, which leaves 3 unaccounted for current Admin placements. I am looking at there being one more Admin from previous. I am debating between 2 characters as to which is the cop, but will not reveal the 2 I'm debating on.

 

I believe everyone else to be regular staff.

[Osangar-Mafia]

Ok, that's what confused me. Regular staff is different from admin? I don't pay attention to those workings around here.

[Graendal-Mafia]

Yes, Admin have a red "Admin" under their profile pictures, and their name shows up in red in the who's online list at the bottom of the main forum page. Staff have a green "DM Staff" inder their name, and their name shows up in green at the bottom of the main forum page.

[Guest Halima-Mafia]

So, Moridin, a mafioso was trying to get Graendal lynched. Does this mean that Graendal is also scum?

 

I'm curious why a Doc wants to jump into a situation where one player is calling another player out at night? I mean, there must be a reason I'm doing this, right? And i think it's fair to say that most players would let the player under fire answer questions - it can't possible hurt the town to get info on the table, right?

 

So why are you jumping into this?

 

You weren't really asking a question. You were just saying "Oh look guys, Moridin voted for Graendal. Graendal is so scummy!" And that doesn't make sense, because Moridin was scum.

 

I jumped in because I think Graendal is town - in large part due to the exchange you quoted. I really don't know what possible reason you could have for attacking her. I don't think you could have a night action completed before night is over. If you do, it would have to be that you're cop and that you have a guilty read on her. In that case, claim away and we'll catch another scum.

 

 

If you are going to accuse Rand of being scum, then you have to accept that he intentionally "slipped" and real-posted, and that Moridin was there to try and use it to sheep Rand - that they had it planned. Since most folks argument is that Rand is a goof who gives himself away easily, I don't get how he has masterminded this amazing gambit? Not to mention that it did get Moridin lynched, which they would have had to consider, on day 1.

 

Once again, it's so easy for the Cop to check Rand tonight (unless Graen's dreaded Roleblocker is on the job *snort*) and then we need to decide as a group whether we think it's a good idea for the Cop to reveal if they find scum. Put it up as a non-argument yes-or-no vote. The we move on. Not complicated at all...

 

I firmly believe that anyone stuck on the SH case is just gunning for an easy town speed-lynch to try and nock in two mafia nightkills.

 

There are other, more compelling cases to be made.

 

Your premise that we must accept that Rand's slip was intentional to believe that he's scum is flawed. Moridin's uber defending of him is why we lynched Moridin. I can't believe that you might think that Moridin would put himself in that position for a townie. Rand is scum.

 

Why shouldn't the cop reveal if they find scum? Finding scum is what cop is for! Possibly not straight away, but definitely within the day phase immediately after a guilty result. Otherwise there's too much risk of the cop being nightkilled (the risk of which increases with breadcrumbing) without revealing their knowledge.

 

If there are other compelling cases to make, I'd love to hear them. You haven't been compelling yet.

 

 

 

You are right there was no reason. Hence why I didn't vote Moridin until Halima's reveal smart guy, of the 2 I trusted Halima because of Moridin's slip calling Poet an Admin.

 

I mean, if you're saying that you believed Halima over Moridin because Moridin called Poet an ADMIN? That's not even something game related, for pete's sake! If I called Elgee an admin, or Womby an admin, or Tina an admin, does that make me scum? I'm glad we got scum, but your reasoning is very suspect, imo. And even though we got lucky this time in nailing scum, that tactic can backfire.

 

The important thing is that Graendal caught out a scum's fakeclaim by paying attention to who's an admin. You don't seem to have noticed, so here are the relevant posts for you:

 

 

@Graendal:

 

I am Poetstorm, Signature Forum Admin and Town Doctor.

 

Although... Poet isn't admin. Just regular DM staff user group

[Graendal-Mafia]

In all fairness, I'll put that conversation in context, as at the time I wasn't 100% on the whole Admin/Staff labels

 

@Graendal:

 

I am Poetstorm, Signature Forum Admin and Town Doctor.

I can believe that.

Although... Poet isn't admin. Just regular DM staff user group

What I sugest is the cop view Moridin tonight, even if he is scum hold onto the information a few days until you get a couple of views under your belt and we will revisit the Moridin case then if you get scum on Moridin

Well, I have no desire to break Rule #12, so I can't exactly copy/paste my Role PM. But I assure you, that's what it says. Was Poet formerly an Admin maybe? Red is old school after all.

 

I knew Poet was never an Admin, but the last post made me kinda hesitent to put my vote back on Moridin, Halima's reveal was what confirmed my doubt of Moridin. I did advocate the cop view Moridin, but Halima saved us from having to do that.

[Osangar-Mafia]

Ok, that all makes sense now. So if Moridin would have been a bit smarter and claimed Poet "DM staff" it would probably not have been suspicious. Red knows who is staff and who is Admin so that wouldn't be a mistake in the role PM.

[Guest Moghedien-Mafia]

Moggy, can I have your reaction to my case?

 

Pffft. I don't remember a case. All I remember was you flailing in OMGUS fashion against those accusing you of scum.

 

And you keep pretending that there isn't a strong case against you, when in fact it's fairly strong for a day 2 case when there hasn't been a whole lot of other scumhunting going on.

 

Graendal's argument about the mod/admin thing is totally meh imo. I'm going to base my arguments on gameplay, not character names, titles, and gaming the mod.

 

Totally agree with this 100%. It's nice I guess that she helped to notice an inconsistency in Moridin's claim, but imo the claim was already incredibly sketchy so all the craziness with admin/staff theories was prob unnecessary.

 

And incidentally, I wish less people focused on stuff like that, ie game setup and mechanics and bizarro stuff, and focused more on good 'ol scumhunting techniques. I might be wrong, but I'd bet the breakdown for catching scum goes something like this: 70% traditional scumhunting techniques, such as looking for odd behavior, studying voting patterns, etc., 25% role info like cop viewings, tracking a scum to a NK target, etc., 3% Rand revealing himself (), and 2% someone using some weird off the wall theory using game setup to identify scum.

 

After all, if the game setup itself allowed many players to identify scum, the game really wouldn't be that balanced itself. I think most games on are very well balanced, so people should focus less on all the setup talk imo

 

Asmodean is coming across in a very belligerent way. Of all the points he was trying to make I only see 1 I'd like clarification on.

 

Graendal. You stated (or seemed to) that there are only up to 10 admins past and present. That would leave approximately 5 non-admin town players in this game.

 

First question. Did you really mean that there were only 10 possible admin roles?

 

If so, How does this fit into your theory?

Ok, that's what confused me. Regular staff is different from admin? I don't pay attention to those workings around here.

 

Hmmm... first you imply with your first post that ALL admins are town, which was def a scummy concept if you've been reading the scenes, then you feign confusion...

 

That plus your initial attempts to go after Graendal are really not making you look good.

[Guest Moghedien-Mafia]

Should read "Most games on DM are balanced"

 

Also forgot to mention something- Rand Haran, can you really stop it with the whole posting under the wrong account and editing your post away?

 

11. Do not edit posts.

 

I mean dude, you've broken that rule like 3 or 4 times or something like that... would you quit it? Think before posting, sheesh.

 

Red, can you just modkill him so we don't have to waste a lynch on him? Or does it not count cause it's not on his alt account? Repeated offenses really should be taken into account imo

[Osangar-Mafia]

I never implied admins are all town. In fact I never gave an opinion. All I've done is try to understand what Graendal's point was.

 

Please provide where I stated all admins are town.

[Graendal-Mafia]

"Graendal. You stated (or seemed to) that there are only up to 10 admins past and present. That would leave approximately 5 non-admin town players in this game"

 

That's what Ol'Mog is referring to, you completely fail to mention 2 of those admin would be mafia so going by your math 7 should be non admin town.

[Graendal-Mafia]

However I don't believe their are more than 9 total Admin in the game.

[Osangar-Mafia]

That whole discussion was an attempt to understand your position. I was making no statement on my beliefs. My attempts at understanding were obvious. There is no reason to imply otherwise.

[Ishamael-Mafia]

Nine might be a bit on the high side. Take away two admins (Barm and Verb), that leaves seven. This would mean that nearly half the town has some sort of role, if we assume that you're right in your guess that admins are roled players. That number seems a little high to me, even in a game with twenty players. Sorry to be meta-gaming, but I think that would make for an unbalanced game.

[Graendal-Mafia]

Nine might be a bit on the high side. Take away two admins (Barm and Verb), that leaves seven. This would mean that nearly half the town has some sort of role, if we assume that you're right in your guess that admins are roled players. That number seems a little high to me, even in a game with twenty players. Sorry to be meta-gaming, but I think that would make for an unbalanced game.

 

Who said Admin are rolled players? I am an Admin character and vanilla, where is this bs coming from, I said one of 2 might be the cop, and Luckers is probably 3rd party. I never once said the Admin were rolled characters.

[Guest Halima-Mafia]

It's just speculation. Let's not go there.

[Graendal-Mafia]

No he is claiming that my theory states that all Admin are rolled which is clearly BS.

[Graendal-Mafia]

Also, when was the last time Aginor posted?

[Rita Skeeter]

I also reacted to Moridin´s reveal, since Poet is a staff member, not an admin. (You get it by now.) It seems like Asmo doesn´t understand the difference between a staff member and an admin. Try this. It´s funny that he tries to spin this to look like Greandal is scummy. Everyone that have been at DM for some time knows the difference between an admin and a staff member. If you played a Disney game and someone claimed Donald Duck /mouse then you would react. This is the same thing.

 

SH will have my vote tomorrow and Asmo is the next one if nothing else come up.

 

About directing the cop - it´s never good. Someone said that mafia would only do it if they have a GF but they could also have a watcher and then they will know who the cop is.

[Graendal-Mafia]

Naturally, everything happens while I'm sleeping. *sigh*

Unvote, Vote Mordin.

For obvious reasons, lol.

 

Here we go, this is Aginor's second and last post, first post was to check in and vote Osangar.

[Graendal-Mafia]

I also reacted to Moridin´s reveal, since Poet is a staff member, not an admin. (You get it by now.) It seems like Asmo doesn´t understand the difference between a staff member and an admin. Try this. It´s funny that he tries to spin this to look like Greandal is scummy. Everyone that have been at DM for some time knows the difference between an admin and a staff member. If you played a Disney game and someone claimed Donald Duck /mouse then you would react. This is the same thing.

 

SH will have my vote tomorrow and Asmo is the next one if nothing else come up.

 

About directing the cop - it´s never good. Someone said that mafia would only do it if they have a GF but they could also have a watcher and then they will know who the cop is.

 

Watcher is a bit farfetched in a basic game though.

[Guest Halima-Mafia]

Perhaps. Moridin was a 'vanilla' mafia though, which rather suggests that there are less vanilla mafiosi running about as well.

[Ishamael-Mafia]

No he is claiming that my theory states that all Admin are rolled which is clearly BS.

 

Did a reread. You're right. Never said that. I would like to note, though, that there's a difference between saying that what I said was wrong versus saying that what I said was BS. I was trying to be helpful in correcting what I thought might be a possible misinterpretation. You're making it sound like I'm trying to put words in your mouth, which I did not intend to do.

 

I'm not attacking you yet; no good reason for me to suspect you at the moment, so not going to waste my time. I'm just trying to make sure we go forward with a clearer idea of what might be going on.

[Arez Al'Loke]

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[Asmodean-Mafia]

I also reacted to Moridin´s reveal, since Poet is a staff member, not an admin. (You get it by now.) It seems like Asmo doesn´t understand the difference between a staff member and an admin. Try this. It´s funny that he tries to spin this to look like Greandal is scummy. Everyone that have been at DM for some time knows the difference between an admin and a staff member. If you played a Disney game and someone claimed Donald Duck /mouse then you would react. This is the same thing.

 

SH will have my vote tomorrow and Asmo is the next one if nothing else come up.

 

About directing the cop - it´s never good. Someone said that mafia would only do it if they have a GF but they could also have a watcher and then they will know who the cop is.

 

I can't believe we're even discussing this.

 

You see Mordeth, in mafia we try to figure out who is scum based on their gameplay. The theme of the game, or the "role names" of the players is irrelevant - it's for flavor only. Any mod who falls into the trap of linking the actual gameplay to fictional characters is not going to be able to balance the game - back in the day, it used to be played with no "theme" at all per say, just logical deduction and hunting for slips. The theme is just window dressing to add to the enjoyment of the players and in many cases is a way for the mod to distract players, giving some roles additional latitude to operate.

 

Trying to convince people that the theme is tied to the game is an old scum tactic. Bringing up roles like GF, Roleblocker, and Watcher in a basic game is an old scum tactic. Bullying newer players and acting like they should do what you tell them is an old scum tactic. Casual FOS'ing and half-assed seeding is a scum tactic. I've seen Graendal do all of these things, hence my calling her out.

 

Anyone who gets sucked into the idea that the game is set up based on character names deserves what they get, which will be a mafia win. Red has been doing this long enough to know better that to set up a game that a player would be abel to figure out during day 1 - sheesh.

 

We also have this quote from Red:

 

i got Kay, Led, Tina, Wombat, & Leelou. if i missed anyone or signed anyone up by accident please let me know. i'm also taking Backups as well. no worries to those of you who can't play this game, i understand how it is re- Mod/Staff are attached to the Alt accounts, people will be assigned the alt account randomly. any staff member from 2006 to present could show up in this game. re-signups. in the game thread the player list will be like Kivs Avatar game, the alt name will be listed, not the real player handle; only person who will know who is playing as what alt is me. alt identities will not be revealed until the game is over. re-alt accounts. there are a few rules you should be aware of when using these. - do not post ANYWHERE on DM except the game thread and this signup thread with your alt account. the alts are fun, i'm giving you guys this thread to spam in as the alts if you wish to do a bit of play acting but keep the game related stuff to the game thread in this case. these will be the only two threads you are allowed to post in under the alt accounts here on DM. - using the Alt does not exclude you from the CoC rules, the CoC applies to the Alt accounts aswell. - the Alt account is for Mafia use only, remember that they have been used before this game and will be used after this game; any PMs sumbitted under them will be read by future players so keep that in mind. - you may change the signauter and avatar, but the DM rules reguarding siggies and avatars still apply.

[Guest Halima-Mafia]

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*squints suspiciously*