The Creator

[metalisticpain]

Well, clearly this catechism was formulated after TSaSG, when people had realised that the Bore had penetrated to the Dark One's domain (whatever that was) and they had become aware of Its existence (if they weren't before). They knew about LTT sealing the FS in with the DO. Some must have wondered why the DO had not taken over the whole of their land anyway, before the Bore; it followed that It must have been restrained somehow from doing so, and the Bore had broken through that restraint.

 

I like this explanation.

 

To be honest, RJ is human. I do not think when he started it he anticipated the amount of delving the fanbase would do. So in some of these (what i consider deep workings of the world) questions, there wont be a fully solid answer because RJ didnt think that deep originally. He is only human and he has laid a huge framework (more so then most other fantasy worlds I have read). I do not doubt he gave it some thought. But to the point of asking himself how the people came to believe in a creator and the written evidence he needed to provide in the books to support a justification?

 

Fan's have the ability to look further and query things never thought of. Like in video games like WoW. Developers develop something and then find the users/fans use it in a completely new or unexpected way to which it was first developed. I think in some of these questions we may be going deeper then originally fleshed out by RJ :)

 

So pick an explanation you like (which is a lot like religion irl)

[Lisa Campbell]

The whole thing just sounds like an expression of hope, rather than an educated belief. It's more about what people like to think is the case, not what the case is, or might have been. In fact the parts which are right are just as pointless as the parts which aren't, because its only purpose is to make people feel safe.

 

 

Well, clearly this catechism was formulated after TSaSG, when people had realised that the Bore had penetrated to the Dark One's domain (whatever that was) and they had become aware of Its existence (if they weren't before). They knew about LTT sealing the FS in with the DO. Some must have wondered why the DO had not taken over the whole of their land anyway, before the Bore; it followed that It must have been restrained somehow from doing so, and the Bore had broken through that restraint.

 

I don't think I made myself clear on what I thought interesting about the catechism.

 

In the AoL very few of the general population knew about the bore and why the Collum Dann suddenly started raining black fire and bad stuff when it was drilled. I think it was even mentioned by an innocent and frightened by-stander (or by-runner ) in Rand's trip through the columns that the Creator had removed his protection blah blah. I'm re-reading TSR so I may come back to this at a later date.

 

So, after Lews Therin sealed the DO and caused the taint and the breaking, the general population did know that Lews Therin had done the deed but they were very unhappy about the results. This is where I think that the catechism developed, but because Lews was in the doghouse, no-one wanted to give him the credit for said deed so they attributed it to the Creator, kind of like a child covering their ears and singing "lalalalalala I can't hear you" if you get my drift.

 

And something similar in present WoT time, Logain, and others, refuse to believe that Rand cleansed the taint from Saidin "lalalalalala".

 

So basically, that's what I find interesting, if things are going good in the world, the Creator is protecting us and playing nice but if things are not so good, then someone must have pee-d off the Creator big time because the protection has been withdrawn and we're out in the storm with no brolly or gumboots.

 

I don't think it was an oversight by RJ, I think it was a subtle dig at something, I just don't know what.

[Ferdawoon]

I do believe RJ stated that the reason there was no organised religion (aside from possibly the Children of the Light) was that in a world where the OP was in evidence, there was no real need to call on a God--His power is already among you.

 

I'd also argue that in a world where Fades & trollocs are in evidence (even if not believed by everyone), there really is no need for proof of the Dark One.

 

Those with the OP generally fight the trollocs and other shadowspawn. You don't really need religious dogma to keep you safe when Aes Sedai will.

 

 

Budapest Q&A - April 2003

 

Q: Are there any religions in the world of the Wheel of Time?

RJ: No. No religions, no churches: that will change in the next set of books, not in this, but where religion becomes in some ways preeminent, but . . .

Q [interrupts]: Oh, is that a spoiler?? No no!

RJ: No, that's not for the Wheel of Time at all, and may change somewhat, as these things do. But the reason is this: I've always believed that our religious rituals our attendance at temples, or churches, or whatever is, in part, a reaffirmation of our faith, and a reaffirmation of our belief, a strengthening of our belief in something that we cannot see. And we do these things in order to strengthen our belief in what we cannot see. God, Allah, whatever . . . but, in this world, it is a world that...as if we had...prophets walking around . . . performing miracles. The One Power can be channeled. Occasionally men show up channeling the One Power; the Aes Sedai have been there for 3000 years.

Q: But the Creator does not interfere!

RJ: The Creator does not interfere, but there is clear evidence of the theological doctrine.

Q: Of the unseen.

RJ: Of the unseen. As far as it is believed, of the existence of the Creator: Here is the One Power. Here is evidence of everything we believe. There is therefore no need for anyone to undergo rituals to reaffirm or strengthen their belief because it is manifest every day. If we really had prophets walking among us, performing miracles and healing people and raising the dead—and this was a matter of every day that somebody might walk down the street and say 'In the name of' and lay their hand on you. 'In the name of God, be healed,' and your wounds are healed; or, 'In the name of God, rise up and walk,' and your dead brother, just died of cholera or whatever rises up and walks—I believe that organized religion would vanish within a generation, or at least become a fringe within a generation, because there would no longer be a need for most people to reaffirm their belief in God, or to strengthen their belief in God, or Allah, or whatever else their religious belief is. It would be manifest in every day life.

Q: And how about the Whitecloaks? I mean they look like some sort of religious sect.

RJ: Which?

Q (two girls in unison): The Whitecloaks!

RJ: The Whitecloaks? Well, they're meant to look as a religious sect. They began as, an ascetic organization dedicated to preaching against Darkfriends, trying to convince people by example that they should not become Darkfriends. And during the War of the Hundred Years they became a military organization. They are patterned on the Teutonic Knights, a touch of the German SS, and . . .

Q [interrupts]: And the Spanish Inquisition?

RJ: A touch of the Spanish Inquisition. (laughter) They are in short anyone who believes that they know the Truth: the Truth with a capital 'T'. They know the Truth so well, and it's so clear to them that if you don't believe that truth, then it becomes obvious that you are evil.

https://docs.google.com/View?docID=dcjspjqg_74xw3j58sj&revision=_latest