[Basic Mafia] Firefly: Alliance Intervention- Night 2

[csarmi]

I don't really know what should I replay to that. I'm not supposed to quote the mod and surely there is a fine line somewhere that specifies what can I reveal and what not.

 

I tried PM'ing my mentor and the mod about it, but I didn't get any reply.

 

So, all I can say is that your alignment was given. (alignment = town or scum)

[csarmi]

And sorry about the late reply, but I've quite a lot of work to do today and I'm very, very tired (I've slept only 5 hours).

[csarmi]

I don't know what the Deadline is, but I suggest that it should be postponed until tomorrow (if it hasn't been already). Gives time to react + Aemon is kinda missing, it seems?

[csarmi]

Just to make it clear: as I pointed out already, I've found no scum. If there is anything more I should clarify, please, let me know.

[Tynaal Consen]

So all you were told is the alignment of the person you investigated?

[mottlee]

ok so i have one question for you CS why did you pick those 2? i can sort of understand phelix but why arlow?

[csarmi]

He made some good arguments (a good case on me for sure), but his post frequency went up and down. I wanted to know where he was standing.

[csarmi]

Also, I VOTE Deadlyfreind. I might change my vote later, and I'm happy to follow anyone who makes a good argument, but I have to go offline for a while and I have no idea how we're standing with the deadline so trying to be safe here.

 

Hopefully, I'll be back in an hour or two.

 

Tynaal, anything to add besides your 'gambit'?

 

Where are the others?

 

Tanaus? Reyn? Arlow? Who else did I leave off?

[csarmi]

Tynaal, I don't understand where you're going with your questions.

 

It is a standard game with 3 maffia players, 1 standard cop and 1 standard healer. The cop can give a name and gets an alignment, the doctor can give a name (anyone's, including himself) and that player is invulnerable during the night. So what do you expect?

[Phelix]

OK... so, doing the math. We've got 8 players left. If we lynch someone tonight and they're a townie, we're down to 7, and then the mafia will night kill another townie, leaving us with an even split of 3 town and 3 mafia and no way to lynch anymore without a clear majority. Meaning tonight is our last chance to win by killing a scum.

 

So I'm going to reveal my role. I'm the Finder, aka the Cop. That's why I've been so sure Csarmi is scum. I viewed Tynaal on the first night because she seemed suspicious, and then viewed Keyholder just in time for the Mafia to Night Kill her. Both are/were town.

 

Assuming this game is standard and only has one cop, Csarmi is scum. If it's not standard, he might be another finder. I asked what Aemon said when Csarmi asked about myself and Arlow to compare it against what Aemon said to me when I asked about people. We aren't allowed to quote Aemon, but repeating a few key words shouldn't be a problem.

 

I know I'm not scum, and I know Tynaal is not scum either. I'm almost entirely sure that Csarmi is scum... unless Aemon is messing with us and put two cops into the game.

 

That leaves five more players with two scum, two vanilla players, and one doctor. When Csarmi claimed to have viewed two of us, myself and Arlow, he said we both came up as Town. I know I am town, but was Csarmi trying to slip a mafia in under our noses?

 

The only scum I'm sure of is Csarmi... so I am going to vote Csarmi again.

 

Needless to say, I hope whoever the doctor is protects me tonight. If you don't, and I get night killed, it will confirm my story of being the Finder.

[mottlee]

ok WOW just WOW i don't know what else to say to that post.

[Phelix]

I didn't really want to reveal... but we're down to the line, as much as I dislike saying it. If we lynch a townie tonight, we lose. It seemed most people's problem with lynching Csarmi was that he was uncontested... so I'm contesting.

 

The only way he's a Finder is if Aemon put two of us into the game.

[mottlee]

ok the way i see it one of you have to be lieing cause i very much doubt aemon would put 2 cops in a game for noobies

 

1 doc 1 cop some vanilla townies and some scum yes but no way 2 cops.

 

umm so yeah we need everyone to get their butts in here so that we can sort this out as well as an idea when the hell the deadline is.

 

CS what do you have to say about phelix's claim?

 

phelix i'm not really sure i believe you. yes the way CS has play has been scummy. if you are the real cop i sort of understand why you didn't come forward before but then again if you are telling the truth and had come forward day 1 when CS first claimed we could have already lynched scum. and the doc could have protected you.

 

if you are lieing then why did CS say you are town cause this is something scum would do to confuse us all. also if you are really town but not the cop then it's just making a WIFOM situation which is totally not helping the town.

 

 

i have no idea i am so confused right now.

[csarmi]

Phelix, I've been reasonably sure for a long time that you're the REAL finder.

I'm not scum, however, incredible as that sounds. What you were asking for - repeating a few words - may NOT be cheating, but it is surely against the spirit of the rules, so even if I were the real finder, I wouldn't do that.

 

To learn that you were alone as a finder, you only had to ask Aemon. I was told straight out, that there is one cop, one doctor and 9 scum. I pointed that out once and pointed it out today AGAIN to make sure the Cop understands it (and the implications). Also kept waiting today like forever for the Cop to make his play, because of the 5-3 thing. I was kinda hoping you would hit a scum, however.

 

I've got some bad news for you, and good news as well.

 

First of all, if you lynch me, the game is won for Maffia. That is because I'm the doctor and if you kill me, there will be no one left to protect you.

We will be left 4 to 3 for the night and the Maffia will not fail his kill.

 

I protected Tina Hel for the first night (I didn't want to lose her) and protected YOU the second night. That sounded like a really good idea, not just because it seemed that you were the Cop, and I didn't want to lose you, but because even if you were a townie, killing you (and flipping a townie) would have been a very good way for the Maffia to frame me.

 

... more follows ...

[Phelix]

Csarmi,

 

You're really not helping your case here. I did ask Aemon how many cops there were and he refused to tell me. Told me to play and find out. PAFO.

 

The fact that you've been lying the whole game really makes you look scummy. You claimed to be the Cop. You even said you viewed certain people, when as the Doctor you can't view people.

 

I'm finding it very hard to buy your claim of being the doctor now.

[csarmi]

Now why did I do this?

 

First day started okay for me, but then I got into the spotlight. It was intentional and served two purposes:

 

1) to look scummy enough so that the Maffia thinks they could lynch me at some point

2) to get some attention so that they MIGHT focus on me (I would definitely protecting myself)

3) it does amount to a lot of talk whivh is good for town

 

I planned ahead, my way out was to claim (in the worst case situation).

 

Now it was all going well, except my mentor disappeared for the whole weekend (she has no net access) and I started to have second thoughts.

 

I only played offline before, and in our games it was natural that the doctor can protect anyone (including himself). Aemon's role PM said something along those lines too, but it wasn't clear at all. Now I did do some reading on MafiaScum Wiki, and I went back there confused, and here's what I found:

 

A very powerful ally to the Town. Each night, the Doctor contacts the Game Moderator, choosing one player to protect during the night from a night kill. When used in combination with a Cop, the Town has a sharply increased chance at catching Scum.

 

Generally, the Doctor can not heal/protect himself.

 

Emphasis mine. Imagine my horror. I got the maffia on me and then I find that maybe cannot protect myself at all. Jeez.

 

That, and the fact that I misjudged the time left make me kinda panic a bit and I got even more attention and three votes on me.

 

I kept trying to contact Aemon about the rules, but no luck there, it was not the best day to try that, apparently (I'm not blaming him! and certainly not my kind mentor).

 

So, in the end, I managed to get three votes on me and when there was like three hours left, I was the only one with votes enough. Certainly, I wasn't at L-2, but I couldn't afford to stay up any longer so I had to do something.

 

Claiming as Doc didn't seem like a good idea to me (as I wasn't sure I could protect myself[/ig from a NK) so I took my chance and claimed as a Cop.

 

It's reasonable, if you think about it.

 

First of all, I expected the Cop to be clever about it, and NOT reveal. I also hoped the cop would NOT view me, so would have a better chance to find a scum.

Second, I don't get lynched (i was reasonably sure about THAT) and I won't get NK'd either. Certainly the maffia would NOT dare try me, since they would think that doc would be protecting me. Yes, that is Wine in Front of Me, but a very reasonable one.

Third, I don't have to protect myself, so I can try outplay the Maffia.

 

I decided to protect Tina Hel, because losing her would have been a blow to me and I expected tha Maffia to deal that blow. My second idea was Deadlyfreind. I even made a slip up the second day (and had to explain myself out of it) - see posts #114 and #132.

 

I was quite disappointed that I misfired, I did get a lot of talk the second day (and started to think YOU were the Cop, but had other candidates as well).

 

I tried to keep myself high on the scum-meter so that if you DO claim eventually, you would be believed.

 

I also tried to protect Tina, but people kept linking our alignment together and i was a bit afraid that it was a brilliant setup to frame me.

I did hesitate about voting. The reason I cast the 6th vote on her was this:

 

Well, I didn´t get a good explenation and I wasn´t offered any tacos either so I´m not going to change my vote on Tanaus.

 

And since I´m at L-1 I think I should tell you that I am a vanilla townie. If I go down in the end of this day I want you all to go through Tanaus posts again. I also think Reyn has acted kind of strange. She has scummy motives for voting me and tend to back up Tanaus. Remember that my death won´t tell you anything about Csarmi either. Hopefully you know more after next nights viewing.

 

Now the only thing I was really afraid of is that we might be killing the Cop. (She might have been the Cop, who VIEWED me first night and saw innocent)

She cleared that with her message (thanks again, Tina!) and thus killing her was a win-win:

 

1) if scum (there was some chance), then I will become hell of a lot suspicious, but the detective still lives and 1 scum down is enough for me to pay with my life on a next day lynch)

2) if vanilla townie, at least my position was strengthened

 

Also, Phelix, you got so much spotlight on you and made such a big target of yourself, that I had a reasonable hope that the maffia would go after you (and fail a kill, thus confirming you in my eyes). Why were you a big target? Think with the Maffia's brains. They certainly had no doubt about my claim, or no serious doubts, that is. They either have to kill the doctor (so they can kill me afterwards, LOL, good luck with that :P), or lynch me. Well, killing you WOULD seem a very good frame on me. (Also, I cannot afford you, the Cop I was like 95% sure that you were to die anyway).

I also hoped you'd finally draw a scum. I think it was a good idea to view Keyholder, bad luck there, however.

 

My idea was that if you find a Cop, I'll not put up a fight or anything, just let the town lynch him (proving you as a finder), protect you for one more night an expect to get lynched one day after.

 

I also had a bad luck: the Maffia went for an entirely different target.

 

Now I kept waiting today for the Cop (you, most likely, though some of Tynaal's post did seem Cop'ish to me as well) to reveal. i could NOT make the first move because if I revealed myself, any Maffia player could just claim and game over.

 

So I kept waiting for you and post messages encouraging a reveal (just look at my posts for today).

 

I did give your name as town, because I was reasonably sure you were the Cop (didn't want to give that, but I was kinda forced to, by all the inactivity and no votes and people telling me to). I gave Arlow because he gives out a very strong Townie vibe to me (though certainly, I might be wrong).

 

My prime suspects were Reyn and Tanaus and Tynaal during the night (I was kinda suspucious of Keyholder too). Tynaal, however seemed to act very townish today and I'm not very sure of Reyn anymore (or Tanaus, either, though I STILL think Tina's arguments on him were spot on).

 

I can make a case on reyn, if you so wish (got one prepared). I couldn't post a case yet, because it would seem foolish from a Cop, I mean if I am SO sure that someone is scum, why not VIEW him?

 

A few last things.

 

1) i know you didn't view me, which was a very wise decision

2) I'm at L-1 if you guys didn't notice. The Maffia DOES believe me for sure and if I get any more townie votes, I'm dead (they just quickvote me in and game over)

 

Consider all this.

[csarmi]

Phelix, then you were just as clever as I expected you to be. I apologize that for a minute I thought you might not have asked the MOD that.

 

You must understand, however, that we are NOT allowed to quote Aemon's posts. Now he CAN tell me that there is only one cop (because it is not a big spoiler here), to you, however, it might spoil your fun and interrupt the game (why did I ask Aemon? because I wanted to know if the real Cop can reasonably believe I'm a cop too (my mentor kept suggesting the the finder might have viewed me and thus would even BELIEVE what I'm saying and I didn't really want that).

 

I think it was a very good idea of him to be honest with me and give a PAFO to you. That way, he didn't spoil the game to either of us. Very nice move.

 

All the better that I did point out (TWICE, today, pointedly) that there is only ONE Cop.

 

I wanted to make sure you (or maybe Tynaal, if SHE was the Cop) to understand the situation perfectly and act on that. As time is running short...

[csarmi]

Also, I trust you fully. I hope we can do a controlled lynch on one of the Maffia members. It certainly wont be easy. Not THAT hard either. We have a block of three right now.

 

You decide the game here and now.

 

Everyone (I mean every innocent) should trust you now. Just guess a scum correctly, point fingers and said guy dies. All, including me will follow your votes.

 

I'll protect you tonight so you'll have another day to live (and ask questions). If you make a good guess on whom to view, we have a very good chance to win the game 8I die tonight, you die next night but in the meantime we're bound to cause enough damage to win).

 

If you guess incorrectly, we're down a townie. In THAT case, however, the doctor still lives and does have a small chance to make a save. I'll try my chance and trust the RNG for a save.

 

If you point at me, I'll go down.

I'll flip as doctor, you die tonight and game is over.

 

These are your three choices. I really hope you'll be making the right one. Very hard to make, I know. Use your judgement.

 

It means little to me, I'm most likely done here.

 

Sorry about being unable to hit a save. I'll guess better next game :)

 

(btw - there is another choice: leave it all to the RNG, but I do NOT recommend that)

 

With this, I need to be going to sleep in 15-20 mins, almost midnight, had a very hard day, my GF too and she can't sleep with me awake).

 

If you want me to vote someone now, let me know who that should be. Or I'll be casting the vote in about 8 hours. I would wake up the night to vote and all that, but can't do that with my GF being here.

 

Have a nice evening/night everyone.

[csarmi]

by the way, i tried to 'say no word that is not true' today. :-))

understand, that i DID have to give an impression of having made viewings as long as the real cop was in hiding.

 

Do think a lot on all this and everything that was posted on topic. There was a LOT of discussion going on, a goldmine of information. Use it.

Have a good time.

[Reyn]

Jeez louise... Csarmi I have to say I certainly underestimated you as a mafia player. You are either an amazing scummy who made a super in-depth argument towards your case, or an amazing townie with a lot of carefully thought out actions.

 

As it stands I believe you, but I'm not making any final decisions now. How much time do we have left?? I am sorry for being so inactive recently but life and motivation have gotten the best of me the past few days. I want to go through this recent discovery again when I can think clearly and also try to case out a few players... I'm not convinced on Tynaal but again I don't have any evidence against anyone right now. I will say that the ones who seem the nicest aren't always...

 

Phelix, what are your thoughts??

[Phelix]

I am torn, Reyn. I viewed Tynaal, and she shows as Crew. That's one I am sure of. As for Csarmi... I don't know.

 

The idea that he claimed to be the Cop first thing on the first day really worries me. I've been operating under the assumption that he is scum since that moment... which lead to viewing people who supported him and lynching people who seemed to support him... and so far I've only come up empty.

 

We could go on the assumption that he is scum. To do that, we should lynch him... but if he really is the Doctor, then we're giving the game to the Mafia.

 

We could also take him at his word and thus remove myself, him, and Tynaal from the pool of people to lynch... leaving Reyn, Tanaus, Mottlee, Arlow, and Deadlyfreind... with three mafia and five players, that's better than 50/50 odds we'd get a scum.

 

I don't know if I trust Csarmi... lying the whole game does not inspire me to trust, and now coming back to say he's the other power role so we can't lynch him now.... gah.

 

I'm stuck. The deadline is coming at some unknown point, and right now I've only got my gut saying not to trust Csarmi. That's just instinct, not necessarily logic. Csarmi talks a lot... he posts frequently and lengthily. He could be trying to distract us... and if he is, he's doing a wonderful job.

[Tynaal Consen]

Okay, if Phelix is Mafia, then I'm painting a target on my back, but his viewing on me as town is right.

 

 

I just have one problem with cs whole thing. That's a hectic ploy to pull off for a relative newbie. So I'm leaving my vote on Arlow, for now. we can always have phelix investigate Cs, while the doc protects him.

[Phelix]

Csarmi (1) - Phelix

Deadlyfreind (1) - Csarmi

Arlow (1) - Tynaal

 

Those are the current standings...

 

I would be comforable shifting to either Deadly or Arlow, as both have been quiet (for reasonable reasons... unless those are just lies to hide their scum status). It's practically a coin toss though. Either stands 60% chance of being scum, which is slightly better than even odds... this is assuming Csarmi isn't lying.

 

Alternatively... this is just a wild stab in the dark... Reyn stepping in to defend Csarmi could be showing that she is scum along with Csarmi, and trying to get us to lynch another townie to win the game for the scum.

 

Gah... end game pressure.

[Tynaal Consen]

Cs, who is your mentor, if I may ask.

[danneric]

OK... so, doing the math. We've got 8 players left. If we lynch someone tonight and they're a townie, we're down to 7, and then the mafia will night kill another townie, leaving us with an even split of 3 town and 3 mafia and no way to lynch anymore without a clear majority. Meaning tonight is our last chance to win by killing a scum.

 

So I'm going to reveal my role. I'm the Finder, aka the Cop. That's why I've been so sure Csarmi is scum. I viewed Tynaal on the first night because she seemed suspicious, and then viewed Keyholder just in time for the Mafia to Night Kill her. Both are/were town.

 

Assuming this game is standard and only has one cop, Csarmi is scum. If it's not standard, he might be another finder. I asked what Aemon said when Csarmi asked about myself and Arlow to compare it against what Aemon said to me when I asked about people. We aren't allowed to quote Aemon, but repeating a few key words shouldn't be a problem.

 

I know I'm not scum, and I know Tynaal is not scum either. I'm almost entirely sure that Csarmi is scum... unless Aemon is messing with us and put two cops into the game.

 

That leaves five more players with two scum, two vanilla players, and one doctor. When Csarmi claimed to have viewed two of us, myself and Arlow, he said we both came up as Town. I know I am town, but was Csarmi trying to slip a mafia in under our noses?

 

The only scum I'm sure of is Csarmi... so I am going to vote Csarmi again.

 

Needless to say, I hope whoever the doctor is protects me tonight. If you don't, and I get night killed, it will confirm my story of being the Finder.

Wow did not expect that, i actually had suspicions that you were the doc phelix. with being pissed at how scummy CS was being in declaring the cop, and actually going as far as to vote him without support. jeez good mafia plays there.

 

Phelix, I've been reasonably sure for a long time that you're the REAL finder.

I'm not scum, however, incredible as that sounds. What you were asking for - repeating a few words - may NOT be cheating, but it is surely against the spirit of the rules, so even if I were the real finder, I wouldn't do that.

 

To learn that you were alone as a finder, you only had to ask Aemon. I was told straight out, that there is one cop, one doctor and 9 scum. I pointed that out once and pointed it out today AGAIN to make sure the Cop understands it (and the implications). Also kept waiting today like forever for the Cop to make his play, because of the 5-3 thing. I was kinda hoping you would hit a scum, however.

 

I've got some bad news for you, and good news as well.

 

First of all, if you lynch me, the game is won for Maffia. That is because I'm the doctor and if you kill me, there will be no one left to protect you.

We will be left 4 to 3 for the night and the Maffia will not fail his kill.

 

I protected Tina Hel for the first night (I didn't want to lose her) and protected YOU the second night. That sounded like a really good idea, not just because it seemed that you were the Cop, and I didn't want to lose you, but because even if you were a townie, killing you (and flipping a townie) would have been a very good way for the Maffia to frame me.

 

... more follows ...

OMG you really had me going there CS not only was there 2 declarations as cop but also you claiming to be the doc.this is turning out to be one huge brawl between you two.

 

Csarmi (1) - Phelix

Deadlyfreind (1) - Csarmi

Arlow (1) - Tynaal

 

Those are the current standings...

 

I would be comforable shifting to either Deadly or Arlow, as both have been quiet (for reasonable reasons... unless those are just lies to hide their scum status). It's practically a coin toss though. Either stands 60% chance of being scum, which is slightly better than even odds... this is assuming Csarmi isn't lying.

 

Alternatively... this is just a wild stab in the dark... Reyn stepping in to defend Csarmi could be showing that she is scum along with Csarmi, and trying to get us to lynch another townie to win the game for the scum.

 

Gah... end game pressure.

So the only reasons why everyone thinks im scummy is because i havent posted a lot and i changed to an offenseive game durring my second round? i wish i had the foresight enough to see that far into the future. I would know who exactly the scum are and what their next move was. but alas i dont but it seems that CS does so why dont you explain to me the exact details of why there is a claim againts me being scum?

 

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Damn this sucks couldnt get on the computer at lunch, i could in the morning so i could check everything. jeez i really need my own laptop bad.