Egwene Compelled by Aran'gar?

[FarShainMael]

[ranjitb]

I hereby compulse you to lighten up.

[Phelix]

I hereby compulse you to lighten up.

 

 

As I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, it's an issue that's near and dear to me... I don't like it when words on the screen make my eyes bleed. Also, I dislike it when people try to dismiss criticism by saying "Oh, it's Fantasy... we don't have to follow rules." Weak sauce.

 

Lastly, note the worms posts... we've lightened up already. *shrug*

[FarShainMael]

I think you have to be a Grauniad reader (or a fan of The Two Ronnies) to get that one

[Phelix]

I think you have to be a Grauniad reader (or a fan of The Two Ronnies) to get that one

 

 

I don't even know what you're talking about here! *sigh*

 

Worms!

[FarShainMael]

Ah. Well, 'The Guardian' is a UK newspaper that is infamous for its alleged misprints. And 'The Two Ronnies' are a comedy duo specialising in short sketches either singly or together, and Ronnie Barker (no longer with us, alas) did like comedy based on playing on worms.. sorry, words.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_guardian

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Ronnies

[Phelix]

Wait... Grauniad = Guardian? OK... that makes more sense. I thought it was some other fantasy series like The Belgariad or something.

 

The Two Ronnies though, those are still completely foreign to me... though, they sound funny as hell.

[FarShainMael]

By George, he's got it!! (That's from the film My Fair Lady', BTW.)

 

And yes, they were very funny indeed!

 

A-hem. Back to topic.. I still think we have seen at least three cases of comparatively mild compulsion (Morgase, Egwene and Gawyn) which is exaggerating existing traits, making them do things in line with their basic inclinations, but which (if they were to start thinking at all clearly, which Morgase did) they would soon realise were unreasonable.

 

Morgase has realised this. Gawyn is partway there; though he still wants Rand dead, he's going to let the Last Battle do that job. Egwene.. well, we'll see.

 

And then of course, Egwene and Gawyn are now Bonded. If they are indeed both under Compulsion, will the Bond, help, or hinder?

[Phelix]

By George, he's got it!! (That's from the film My Fair Lady', BTW.)

 

And yes, they were very funny indeed!

 

A-hem. Back to topic.. I still think we have seen at least three cases of comparatively mild compulsion (Morgase, Egwene and Gawyn) which is exaggerating existing traits, making them do things in line with their basic inclinations, but which (if they were to start thinking at all clearly, which Morgase did) they would soon realise were unreasonable.

 

Morgase has realised this. Gawyn is partway there; though he still wants Rand dead, he's going to let the Last Battle do that job. Egwene.. well, we'll see.

 

And then of course, Egwene and Gawyn are now Bonded. If they are indeed both under Compulsion, will the Bond, help, or hinder?

 

I definitely recognized MFL.

 

Back to topic indeed... um, when did Gawyn come up as a potential example of compulsion? Who would have compelled him? When? Why? What's the evidence for it?

 

I agree about Morgase, she definitely worked through her compulsion, recognizing it for what it is... but it's still there. She says so herself. Even knowing he's Rahvin, knowing what he made her do, she says she still feels she'd leap to go back to him.

 

I don't think Gawyn is under any compulsion. I think his actions make sense based on his world and his point of view. They're not rational, but he wasn't being rational. Bryne comments on the fact that Gawyn and his sister are both very emotional people. They leap with their hearts before their head even registers there's an issue to consider. Rand is a threat to the women in Gawyn's life, and Gawyn was raised to protect those women... first as the expected First Prince of the Sword, then training as a Warder... he has always expected to protect Elayne and an Aes Sedai/Egwene from all threats... then here comes al'Thor, killing Morgase, spending much too much time with Elayne and Egwene, and putting them into more and more danger, while at the same time the White Tower is putting those same women he loves/seeks to protect into more danger.

 

When your most basic desire is flouted and kept from you over and over again, you form irrational desires to repair it. Killing al'Thor will avenge his mother, protect his sister and protect the woman he loves... in his mind. Early on, no one was sure Rand was the real Dragon Reborn... Gawyn likely thought, like most of the world, that he was just another False Dragon (an even greater threat to his women folk).

 

All in all, with Gawyn's background and motivations in mind, killing Rand makes sense.

[FarShainMael]

Ah. I actually started a thread on whether Gawyn was under Compulsion, I'll see if I can find it!

 

Briefly, for now: just as Egwene thinks the Pattern's got it wrong, Gawyn doesn't seem to have realised that what he wanted to do - run the Dragon Reborn through with a sword - would doom the world.

 

Edit: here you go!

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/50870-is-gawyn-under-compulsion-spoilers-for-tgs/page__hl__gawyn+compulsion

[Phelix]

Thank you for the link, but it looks like loose conjecture and very little evidence. Gawyn's world was rocked to its core... he's allowed to act irrationally without it needing to be some external actor taking away his free will.

[FarShainMael]

Well, we'll wait, and see what turns up in AMOL..

..probably not much

[Phelix]

Well, we'll wait, and see what turns up in AMOL..

..probably not much

 

Hehe... ain't that the truth about everything?