What exactly is the DO?

[Monte]

Interesting theories on how the DO manifests himself throughout this thread...with most believing him to be a non-physical entity, some going so far to say he is just an idea. It will be interesting to watch this one play out. Drekka your version was definitely imaginative, but given the hints in ToM I suspect it's going to be a little more straightforward with Callandor being used to repair the seal. In initiating this thread it was pointed out to Rand by Moridin that killing the DO was a monumentally stupid idea. However, the ToM Rand doesn't mention killing the DO once, so maybe his mindset has matured in this regard to be similar to conceiving something closer to what Drekka, and the rest of the posters in this thread, envisioned.

 

Still, it's going to be a while until the end of this series, and what I most anticipate is to see just how good of a philosopher Ishamael really is, and how much of sequences with Rand in the early books truly were lies. Ishamael really did seem to think this was the final fight, although it could have been that he was being egotistical.

 

Interesting that matter vs antimatter was brought in, because I had a similar thought. I've read a lot in this thread about the shadow in TWoT being the evil contained in all souls. I think, in stark terms of "The Shadow" in this series, that this is a whole seperate thing. There are plenty of souls with evil influence, and given Aviendha's Rhuidean sequences AFTER the DO is resealed, killed, what have you, clearly evil intent, lies, they are going to exist on after The Last Battle. This suggests to me that the war against the shadow, as a generality, isn't the same as the war against dark influences in all mankind, but more a clear actual entity, an ego if you will, currently sealed in the bore.

 

This means that the Dark One, whether or not a physical manifestation, is going to turn out to be a bit of a separate entity, otherwise it would be damn near a clear cut "Utopia" after the war is won.

 

But Moridin calling Rand stupid in talking of killing the Dark One...well that does suggest that Moridin knows that it's definitely not a physical manifestation as well. Whatever evil influence in sealed in the bore may not be all the shadow and evil that pervades throughout mankind, but it is a definite entity which demands chaos.

 

How do I think it's going to end? Rand is going to create a better seal, pure and simple. But it CAN end with full resolution nonetheless (hence the antimatter argument: Remember Jordan is a physics major). I feel Callandor is going to create a conduit that not only encases the bore in a vacuum, sealed imperfectly, but he is going to create it, shed in pure light (possibly, as argued in other threads, a True Power that IS in opposing force to Shai'tan's power), and using this True Power in opposition to the DO's True Power, will create a collapsing self containing field that will shrink and shrink until the two forces collide. And as hinted in the thread above me, there is only one true result. Annihilation.

 

How does Rand die out of this? Remember, he IS the tool of the creator...he is the conduit for all of that energy. Similar to a taser gun, this will cause electro-paralysis. Why does Alivia need to be there? I'm not sure, but I can guess that perhaps the True Power of light in opposition to the True Power we've seen Moridin and Rand use, is actually a combination of saidar and saidin, perfectly melded, yin and yang.

 

We'll see how my prediction plays out...true to Jordan's style, if it is how I predict, it definitely won't be WORDED that way!

[Monte]

Oh, see a physics explanation for Rand cleansed Saidin here.

 

http://www.steelypips.org/wotfaq/2_nondark/2.3_one-power/2.3.16_taint-cleansing.html

 

Also, for further proof that the Dark One is not a physical entity, look no further than the Islamic Shaytan. Shai'tan. As I reference in another post, and I'll copy this from wiki verbatum...

 

The primary characteristic of the Devil, besides hubris, is that he has no power other than the power to cast evil suggestions into the heart of men, women, and jinn. (note: this is from the Islamic version, the Shaytan, or Iblis)

[moratcorlm]

How does Rand die out of this? Remember, he IS the tool of the creator

Ah, but there is not consensus on that. Many people believe he is the champion of the Wheel, not the Creator, because the Creator does not interfere in that way.

[Monte]

How does Rand die out of this? Remember, he IS the tool of the creator

Ah, but there is not consensus on that. Many people believe he is the champion of the Wheel, not the Creator, because the Creator does not interfere in that way.

 

Tool of the creator, champion of the wheel, they still would both make sense to this.

[KrisAnton]

Why would the creator give us this all important sense of duty and honor yet interfere when things got really bad? He created the world, then left us to tend it. He did His job, it is now our job to combat Evil. Every society in this world has some sense of honor and obligation to do what's right, if the Creator were to come and rescue us every time we needed Him, there would be no point to understanding honor. Rand is reborn as a Hero, as THE Hero, but not an avatar of the Creator Himself. To do so would cheapen the point of all of this.

[Monte]

Why would the creator give us this all important sense of duty and honor yet interfere when things got really bad? He created the world, then left us to tend it. He did His job, it is now our job to combat Evil. Every society in this world has some sense of honor and obligation to do what's right, if the Creator were to come and rescue us every time we needed Him, there would be no point to understanding honor. Rand is reborn as a Hero, as THE Hero, but not an avatar of the Creator Himself. To do so would cheapen the point of all of this.

 

And in support Avrochris supplies this quote to a different thread...from the end of TeotW

 

"The Light Blind you, Ba'alzamon! This has to end!"

IT IS NOT HERE.

It was not Rand's own thought, making his skull vibrate.

I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL

"Where?" He did not want to say it, but he could not stop himself. "Where?"

The haze around him parted, leaving a dome of clear, clean air, ten spans high, walled by billowing smoke and dust. Steps rose before him, each standing alone and unsupported, stretching up into the murk that obscured the sun.

NOT HERE.

 

Remember...it's going to be RJ's ending that matters, and using his storyline, we do the best we can to predict it. I'm not saying Rand calls on the creator, simply saying is able to channel a True Power from that source, using callandor.