Rand and the dagger

[Monte]

Okay, so in TGH Rand touched the dagger. He seems to lack the connection to it that Mat displayed, but still he touched it. In later books we've seen Fain use that dagger in some pretty nasty ways. What does it mean that Rand touched it, if only briefly? Are some of his "trust issues" due in part to that contact? (Not saying there weren't other very obvious reasons, of course).

 

Feel free to discuss any "dagger issues" Mat may still have as well, though he seemed to be well healed of it, is he fully healed?

[blazetheearth]

Okay, so in TGH Rand touched the dagger. He seems to lack the connection to it that Mat displayed, but still he touched it. In later books we've seen Fain use that dagger in some pretty nasty ways. What does it mean that Rand touched it, if only briefly? Are some of his "trust issues" due in part to that contact? (Not saying there weren't other very obvious reasons, of course).

 

Feel free to discuss any "dagger issues" Mat may still have as well, though he seemed to be well healed of it, is he fully healed?

 

I think that Mat is fully healed from the influence of SL. I really don't think that Rand suffered any ill-effects at all from his brief (1 to 2 hours at most) contact with the dagger. Mat had had it several days before he started showing trust issues with the crew of Domon's ship, and Mat was much more susceptible to the dagger's draw at that time than Rand was. We have seen Fain "brush" Pedron Niall and Elaida with his "ability" but of those 2 only Elaida truly showed the manic insanity of Mordeth. Niall seemed to be pretty much himself even after Fain left.

 

Several things could account for Rand not being affected by the dagger's influence. The affect could be lessened on channelers, or it could have something to do with bloodlines (we have not seen what effect the Evil of SL has on Aiel except Liah and she was there for months, not a few hours), or lastly it could have something to do with the fact that almost the entire time that Rand is touching the dagger, he is wrapped in the Oneness. We know that Fain can't sense him in the Void, and while that sense came from the DO, we do not know what other (potentially beneficial) effects that the Oneness could have.

 

Personally I feel that it was a combo of the little time he spent with the dagger and the fact that he was using the Kodi the entire time that allowed Rand to escape without the SL taint that Mat picked up.

[Monte]

So you feel all his issues are a result of his experiences, combined with the effects of tainted saidin then? The reason I'm asking is Rand not only carried the dagger...but touched it to his skin as well. (TGH pages 292-298). His contact with it WAS very minimal though.

 

Between (possibly) the dagger, his two wounds in his side, what he's gone through SINCE then, tainted saidin, and probably most importantly touching the "true source" in TGS, Rand has had a lot of evil influences to the point where even if the dagger were a negative influence, it still may be comparatively minor when put against the rest, regardless.

 

By the way I'm influenced further in this line of thought by the Q&A Luckers posted...

 

1. Question: You had a quote that we all talked about just recently, that there is a small detail with this secret thing. There were two quotes we put together where you told somebody from Chicago where you say this detail first comes out between books 4-6. Is that verified?

 

1. Answer: It’s been going for a long time. Somewhere in four and six the first hints of it are mentioned.

 

2. Question: But that’s not the only time it’s ever mentioned?

 

2. Answer: It’s not the only time it’s ever mentioned. It is…hints about this hidden thing appear in pretty much…in several of the books. It first, somewhere in one of those three is the beginning of where it shows up. The first hint that you get. […] I mean, it’s a small thing that means something large, that sort of thing…and you guys are very good at finding things and I’m not going to say whether you hit it or not.

 

• I asked a follow up question about the big clue in books 4-6, asking if the clue became more relevant due to events in the later books, and he said that it didn't, and that it's something we should have picked up on when it appeared. He also issued a caveat (that is basically common sense) that it is possible someone discussed this issue at some point on one of the boards and that he didn't see that, but that he has never seen it raised in his lurkings, and that this issue is more important than who killed you-know-who.

 

Luckers, I gotta ask you specifically since you are the genius, is there any potential of credibility to that?

[blazetheearth]

Yeah, I think that for all practical purposes Rand touching the dagger had no real effect on him, and that all of his other problems have been the only significant influences on his manner and personality.

 

But you do bring up something that I have thought for a while was a continuity problem.

 

IIRC When Rand stole the dagger from Fain, the dagger was bare-bladed (Fain stated during his POV that he slept with the dagger unsheathed because of the fear it inspired in both trolloc and human so he only stole the dagger, not the sheath), he then puts the dagger with out sheath into the chest w/ HoV. Fain steals chest with both in it.

Fast forward to Falme, when chest is opened dagger minus sheath is still there, and Fain can't take it or replace the sheath on it because he cannot explain how he has the sheath while the dagger was in a chest he couldn't open.

Rand and Co. come to steal the HoV and dagger back, and the dagger is still bare when Mat picks the dagger up. Still bare when they run from Turok's house and once mounted. Mat blows the Horn, and then we don't see him or the dagger again for the rest of the book.

 

Cut to TDR - And the first time we "see" the dagger on screen is during the healing of Mat when it is described as "golden-sheathed".

 

So my question is "When did they get the sheath back? Did Fain just leave it laying around somewhere?"

 

I thought the thing that was referred to by your italics in the previous post was revealed in ToM. I can't tell you what it was here, but I'm pretty sure it is discussed thoroughly in the ToM Spoilers section.